Wizards and Caps could be moving to Potomac Yard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard Mayor Wilson speak last night, and he said part of the agreement was to seriously limit parking (<4k spaces total), and likely zone all streets for quite a distance to be residential only. Not saying I trust the mayor, but as a nearby resident, that is the only thing that could get me on board. No one wants your giant 3-row SUV clogging up traffic and parking.

That's what's being reported

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

If that's true, then this whole thing is just postering to get DC to pony up or it's doomed to be a massive white elephant that will bankrupt Alexandria. This arena only works if it can attract Virginians in large enough numbers to offset the loss of Maryland and DC fans, but that's not going to happen if you expect them to take metro. All of the financing numbers are based on taxes from the Arena and new developments paying off the bonds, but if attendance is essentially nothing thanks to a lack of parking, that won't happen and Alexandria will be stuck making up the shortfall

4K spaces should be plenty, people with 3 row SUVs are certainly hauling 5 or more people right? If not, time to bring slugging back!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The arena will hold events throughout the year why is the focus strictly on the two teams? I personally would love to take my children to see Taylor Swift without feeling unsafe in DC.

You are no going to make up for the 80+ nights automatically gone by moving the teams.

Its really sad what happened to this city in just 3 years.

Taylor Swift is too big for anything smaller than a NFL-sized stadium. You can rest easy knowing that this arena will have no affect on where you may attend a Swif concert.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The Caps will be fine. It's a good franchise. What they lose in MoCo and NW DC fans attending games, they'll make up with NoVa fans. I'm in MoCo near the DC line. We go to Caps game all the time. I cannot imagine trekking all the way to Potomac Yards for a weeknight game during rush hour. Not happening. But the Virginia fans will be there.

The Wizards are going to suffer. It's been a losing franchise forever with little hope of changing anytime soon. Most of their fan base - such as it is - is DC based. They are not going to Potomac Yards. You need a winning team for people to go through the inconveinience of going to Potomac Yards. It'll be a pretty empty arena for the foreseeable future when it comes to the Wizards.

The real loser, of course, is DC. This is hundreds of millions in lost revenue. All those restaurants in Gallery Place are going to die. It will be impossible to sell a condo in that neighborhood. It was the arena that turned everything around downtown 30 years ago. It will revert back to the crack era so fast it'll make your head spin. The future for downtown DC is bleak.

I blame Bowser and the City Council, of course. Absolute idiots. But the real villain is the USAO. When you decline to prosecute nearly 70 percent of all arrests, there are consequences. Leonsis said it himself. Most of his employees have been attacked and harassed just going to work. No wants that kind of stress in their day to day life. These are all repeat offenders well known to the police. The average murder suspect in DC has 11 felonies - pretty impressive for a teen or someone in their twenties. And USAO does nothing about these violent people.

So people and businesses are leaving DC. Until DC gets serious about putting criminals in prison, the city will continue to decline.

Plenty of people from Loudoun and western Fairfax travel to DC for Nationals BASEBALL(!) games. Plenty via Metro too (shock). Are MD people from Bethesda and CC too provincial to cross the Potomac? I’m sure a few are but C’mon. If you’re a fan, the move to a neighboring DC community won’t be a big deal.

BTW the commute from western Fairfax to Baltimore via car at rush hour is not that much longer than getting to DC for baseball games.

You aren't getting it. The reason people from all corners go to the games in DC is because DC is in the middle of the region with the transit hubs in the city. When you move attractions to one corner or another, it becomes at best inconvenient and at worse burdensome to untenable, to attend. So sure, you have people from western fairfax to Baltimore going to events in DC because it is DC. For people from Baltimore, it is an easy train ride to Union Station and then walk to the Arena or capital bike share to the arena or stadium. Really for people from upper NW DC and Montgomery County, adding an hour commute to attend games on a weeknight during rush hour (not an hour commute, ADDING an hour) is simply not an option for most people.

I'm a different poster but I promise you the owner doesn't think this is an issue. People will absolutely come to these games. I live here and I can tell you that these politicians and business people are looking to redefine this area. A few years ago I went to a local meeting about Amazon HQ coming to Arlington and the leaders running the effort told us that their goal is to make this area (Crystal City/Pentagon City/Potomac Yard/beyond) less car dependent and more metro/bike dependent. They told us that they don't want people dependent on cars. They are trying to build a dynamic metro like city. I believe there will be even greater changes to come that have not been shared yet.

+1. More people will attend the games if they are out of DC. DC is a PITA to get into and, to be frank, the majority of the areas population does not even live there. DC has 700K residents, NOVA has over 3M. NOVA alone could support the sports teams. Plus Baltimore is not coming to Caps/Wizard games - and they are def staying in Balt to support their NFL/MLB teams. NOVA is growing and at a considerably faster rate than DC. Moving the sports teams recognizes and reflects that trend. Glad to see it

I hate to admit it, but this is correct. DC is awful, the parking, the traffic, the pot smoking, the homeless people/druggies strung out all over judiciary square towards Cap One, being scared your car will get broken into, not being able to get an uber after the game, not enough police, it sucks. PY isn't perfect but I am willing to give it a chance over 20+ years of schlepping it out to Cap One. We are season ticket holders for the Nats and it also has become a hellish experience to get there and to get home, whether we drive or use metro.

There are multiple ways in and out of Cap One. There is just one road for PY. One road that is already a huge mess. Before you add 30k workers and thousands of sports fans.

There are multiple ways to get to PY. I’m not a fan of moving the teams bc I live in Alexandria and I am worried it will be a mess but suddenly acting like Gallery Place was smooth sailing is ridiculous and what got us to this point. I would rather deal with going to Cap One’s new music hall in Tyson’s (which is actually pretty nice) then deal with getting to Cap One or the Anthem if I had a choice.

Blame this on Bowser.

There’s just Rt 1.

And Metro access is worse - only blue/yellow line.

Re: transportation, PY sucks.

Where are you coming from? I’m being sincere in asking.

Arlington - I drive down to Alexandria 3x/week. I take GW parkway and/or Rt 1.

Hmm, sounds like you’re coming from north Arlington. If I knew you in real life I’d try to give you tips but I don’t want to blast them on DCUM. I drove by the press conference yesterday and then later went back to PY to get lunch never crossing over or being on Rt 1. I was starting from south Alexandria. I am not sold on this plan, I share concerns re traffic.

The local roads through potomac yards are not built for any kind of traffic flow. I'm from alexandria and have a doctor in potomac yards and also don't bother with Rt 1 often because I prefer the GW and like to get coffe and buzz on the way in, but I also realize that waze is going to route that waze is going to route people where the traffic is the lightest

Did no one read the financial assembly legislative docket of approval? Route 1 will become a toll road.

I think there is a popular free BRT through the Potomac Yards neighborhood called "Metroway". With that bus rapid transit line and metro, wouldn't most fans be able to make it in and out of the site with ease? I'm sure some will also walk back to Crystal City where some people will likely park.

I don't think you grasp how many buses that would take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As to Metro coverage, if one or two stops on the green line is sufficient for Nats Park and Audi Field, why do people believe that PY would be insufficient to handle crowds. I have not traversed the pedestrian bridge and that is one obvious choke point. Are there others?

As to PY, I recall the National Park Sevice being very protective of the views from the GW Parkway to the point that, from WMATA's view, the station placement is suboptimal. From what I've seen, the proposed stadium would be even more triggering of NPS's design veto. Is my recollection correct here? If so, has there been any questionin of/reaction from NPS?

The architects could easily bury half of the arena underground so as not to upset Park Service staff.

And the Metroway BRT already runs past mostly vacant office buildings in Crystal and Pentagon Cities with plenty of underground parking.

There’s a solution to all these logistical problems

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Fairfax and have partial season tix to the Caps and Wiz and like that I can pay $15 to park ~ a block away and then be home in 35/40 minutes post game. Neither of those things are going to happen in PY so I will give up my tix and maybe go to a couple of games a year, well planned and on a weekend afternoon.

This is what I have been trying to say in this thread. Unless you live in the immediate area, you won;t be able to get to this site without an extra hour of travel time. It is a real loser for the fans, even fans in Norther Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wilson: https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

“The city’s interest in these early discussions has been in keeping the number of parking spaces on this site at a minimum because we do not want a lot of vehicles accessing this use,” Wilson said. “This is intended to be a transit arena, a transit operation, that’s why we invested in a Metro station.”

Wilson said the new Potomac Yard will have a “significant net reduction” in parking spaces at the site.

“The intent is to ensure that we do not have people beyond a small core accessing this by vehicle,” Wilson said. “We will continue to push to keep parking at a minimum.”

The fact remains is that the roads around PY are already highly saturated. For Wilson to have any support by city residents, he knows that this is a huge issue - probably the most important one. Widening Rt 1 is not an option. The only option is making sure public transit is strong. You gotta metro in, fans. Leave your Yukons at home.

They are going to have to quintuple the size of the metro station and figure out how to get more trains on to the existing tracks. IOW, impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard Mayor Wilson speak last night, and he said part of the agreement was to seriously limit parking (<4k spaces total), and likely zone all streets for quite a distance to be residential only. Not saying I trust the mayor, but as a nearby resident, that is the only thing that could get me on board. No one wants your giant 3-row SUV clogging up traffic and parking.

One news source said the city is committing 50M for an underground garage. And the City barely has any parking staff to patrol, so this will likely cost the city quite a bit of extra money to regulate.

It also hurts local residents who do not have parking stickers for those blocks but want to visit friends, go to dinner in Del Ray, etc.

WASPS not having ample parking for a dinner party. What a joke!

Not sure what this means. Seems off point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Fairfax and have partial season tix to the Caps and Wiz and like that I can pay $15 to park ~ a block away and then be home in 35/40 minutes post game. Neither of those things are going to happen in PY so I will give up my tix and maybe go to a couple of games a year, well planned and on a weekend afternoon.

From the arena, you can take the bus rapid transit to car parks in Crystal City, Pentagon City, or Old Town.

Again, that is adding at least a half hour each way on a commute to the games as compared to Gallery Place. for most fans, it won't be worth the time. For many fans, it won't even be a viable option. I hope Ted assumes that everyone who lives in "Potomac Landing" and Del ray will be season ticket holders, because the existing fan bases won't put up with the additional hassle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Fairfax and have partial season tix to the Caps and Wiz and like that I can pay $15 to park ~ a block away and then be home in 35/40 minutes post game. Neither of those things are going to happen in PY so I will give up my tix and maybe go to a couple of games a year, well planned and on a weekend afternoon.

The idea that PY is better for VA residents is nuts. Agree 100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Fairfax and have partial season tix to the Caps and Wiz and like that I can pay $15 to park ~ a block away and then be home in 35/40 minutes post game. Neither of those things are going to happen in PY so I will give up my tix and maybe go to a couple of games a year, well planned and on a weekend afternoon.

From the arena, you can take the bus rapid transit to car parks in Crystal City, Pentagon City, or Old Town.

That adds time and inconvenience I'm not willing to subject myself, spouse, and child to on a random weeknight in February.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all breathed a sign of relief when Dan Snyder left; now it's Ted Leonsis who is playing us for suckers.

Yeah, why do we have such terrible owners.

Lets be real. While Ted certainly has lost some of my respect with this PY nonsense, he is not Dan. Not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Fairfax and have partial season tix to the Caps and Wiz and like that I can pay $15 to park ~ a block away and then be home in 35/40 minutes post game. Neither of those things are going to happen in PY so I will give up my tix and maybe go to a couple of games a year, well planned and on a weekend afternoon.

From the arena, you can take the bus rapid transit to car parks in Crystal City, Pentagon City, or Old Town.

So, now, I drive to CC, PC, or OT, park there, wait for a rapid transit bus, take that bus to the Arena, and after the game I then wait in line (along with 15,000 fans) for a rapid transit bus back to CC/PC/OT to drive home. I am sure I will be doing this regularly with my middle school children on school night or any other night. Not!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As to Metro coverage, if one or two stops on the green line is sufficient for Nats Park and Audi Field, why do people believe that PY would be insufficient to handle crowds. I have not traversed the pedestrian bridge and that is one obvious choke point. Are there others?

As to PY, I recall the National Park Sevice being very protective of the views from the GW Parkway to the point that, from WMATA's view, the station placement is suboptimal. From what I've seen, the proposed stadium would be even more triggering of NPS's design veto. Is my recollection correct here? If so, has there been any questionin of/reaction from NPS?

Nats park is on the grid, so people can go via the bridge, S Cap to the highway or east on M Street or west on M Street to Rock Creek.
People can also bikeshare to other metro lines, and do.

Potomac Yards doesn't have easy access to other metro lines or other roads.

See the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard Mayor Wilson speak last night, and he said part of the agreement was to seriously limit parking (<4k spaces total), and likely zone all streets for quite a distance to be residential only. Not saying I trust the mayor, but as a nearby resident, that is the only thing that could get me on board. No one wants your giant 3-row SUV clogging up traffic and parking.

That's what's being reported

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

If that's true, then this whole thing is just postering to get DC to pony up or it's doomed to be a massive white elephant that will bankrupt Alexandria. This arena only works if it can attract Virginians in large enough numbers to offset the loss of Maryland and DC fans, but that's not going to happen if you expect them to take metro. All of the financing numbers are based on taxes from the Arena and new developments paying off the bonds, but if attendance is essentially nothing thanks to a lack of parking, that won't happen and Alexandria will be stuck making up the shortfall

4K spaces should be plenty, people with 3 row SUVs are certainly hauling 5 or more people right? If not, time to bring slugging back!

What about the “30k new jobs”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Fairfax and have partial season tix to the Caps and Wiz and like that I can pay $15 to park ~ a block away and then be home in 35/40 minutes post game. Neither of those things are going to happen in PY so I will give up my tix and maybe go to a couple of games a year, well planned and on a weekend afternoon.

This is what I have been trying to say in this thread. Unless you live in the immediate area, you won;t be able to get to this site without an extra hour of travel time. It is a real loser for the fans, even fans in Norther Virginia.

Ted is assuming that fans' time is worthless. Which couldn't be further from the truth, especially for well-to-do season ticket holders. Say you're an attorney who lives in CCMD, have season tickets. You're looking at an additional 60-90 minutes in transport per game x 40 games.

What is that time worth to a law firm partner or a doctor? That's a huge amount of money, plus you're probably looking a big hike in season ticket rates to pay for the new arena.

Time is money, Ted.