4 yo DS has been completely falling apart at 5 every day....

[Anonymous]

He just starts sobbing at the drop of a hat. He spilled his water at dinner? He starts crying. He trips and bumps into the couch (not injured), he starts sobbing.

He goes to bed peacefully, but an hour later wakes up hysterically crying. He has multiple night lights and sound machines and takes melatonin/magnesium occasionally.

My first thought is he’s overtired. We are working on sleep but every night is a disaster. He’s afraid he says, and comes running to our room every night around 11 or 12. He has a mattress on the floor in our room. When I wake to pee at 4 or 5, I often find DS lying in his bed awake, and he will just be awake for the day.

I don’t know how to get his sleep on track, but hope it would bring his emotions into check.

There haven’t been any big changes in our life lately. Ds just seems so anxious and sad at times.

Any idea what this is? Does he need to see our pediatrician? A psychologist? More exercise?

[Anonymous]

Sounds like he needs a nap after lunch. So maybe lunch, calm play for a half hour to an hour, then nap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like he needs a nap after lunch. So maybe lunch, calm play for a half hour to an hour, then nap.

Op here. Yes I agree. We have a hard time getting him to nap but I’ll see if we can reinstate it. He did nap up until he turned 4 a few months ago and then dropped it.

[Anonymous]

He’s definitely overtired. I think you need to figure out how to get him to not go into your room — he needs to learn how to stay in his room and get a good night’s sleep.

I’d suggest talking to your pediatrician about strategies for doing that. This whole pattern of him running into your room isn’t helping him get good sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He’s definitely overtired. I think you need to figure out how to get him to not go into your room — he needs to learn how to stay in his room and get a good night’s sleep.

I’d suggest talking to your pediatrician about strategies for doing that. This whole pattern of him running into your room isn’t helping him get good sleep.

Op here. I agree. It’s become a pattern and it’s hurting his sleep. I also think he sleeps worse in our room. It’s too stimulating for him and so often when I see him overnight he’s awake (in the early morning I mean).

Would it be a mistake to put a mattress on the floor in his room and DH or I sleep in there?

He’s so sensitive and anxious that I’m afraid to force him to sleep in his room. He goes to sleep without much fuss in his room but always wakes up multiple times per night and claims to be “scared”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’s definitely overtired. I think you need to figure out how to get him to not go into your room — he needs to learn how to stay in his room and get a good night’s sleep.

I’d suggest talking to your pediatrician about strategies for doing that. This whole pattern of him running into your room isn’t helping him get good sleep.

Op here. I agree. It’s become a pattern and it’s hurting his sleep. I also think he sleeps worse in our room. It’s too stimulating for him and so often when I see him overnight he’s awake (in the early morning I mean).

Would it be a mistake to put a mattress on the floor in his room and DH or I sleep in there?

He’s so sensitive and anxious that I’m afraid to force him to sleep in his room. He goes to sleep without much fuss in his room but always wakes up multiple times per night and claims to be “scared”.

Honestly, I think your ultimate goal needs to be to have him sleep the entire night on his own in his room. I know that sounds really daunting and impossible, but that’s the only way he’ll get good sleep.

Hopefully your pediatrician will have guidance on how to get there. If you feel that he has undue anxiety about sleeping in his own room, that’s when I might look into a specialist, to see if he has unusual levels of anxiety that need to be addressed.

But your first stop is his pediatrician, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’s definitely overtired. I think you need to figure out how to get him to not go into your room — he needs to learn how to stay in his room and get a good night’s sleep.

I’d suggest talking to your pediatrician about strategies for doing that. This whole pattern of him running into your room isn’t helping him get good sleep.

Op here. I agree. It’s become a pattern and it’s hurting his sleep. I also think he sleeps worse in our room. It’s too stimulating for him and so often when I see him overnight he’s awake (in the early morning I mean).

Would it be a mistake to put a mattress on the floor in his room and DH or I sleep in there?

He’s so sensitive and anxious that I’m afraid to force him to sleep in his room. He goes to sleep without much fuss in his room but always wakes up multiple times per night and claims to be “scared”.

Honestly, I think your ultimate goal needs to be to have him sleep the entire night on his own in his room. I know that sounds really daunting and impossible, but that’s the only way he’ll get good sleep.

Hopefully your pediatrician will have guidance on how to get there. If you feel that he has undue anxiety about sleeping in his own room, that’s when I might look into a specialist, to see if he has unusual levels of anxiety that need to be addressed.

But your first stop is his pediatrician, IMO.

Op here. I agree that the goal is whole night in his bed, just thinking in the interim if one of us is there that could help. But of course then we might just create another crutch.

Thankfully I think this would be an easy telehealth appointment with his doc, so I’ll schedule that tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

Do NOT start sleeping in his bedroom with him. That'd just be one more thing to break.

[Anonymous]

That sounds hard and heartbreaking, OP. A couple of ideas for you.

1) when he cries, make sure you validate and comfort him. Even if it seems insane. Don’t make him leave the table, instead pick him up and go sit somewhere where you can comfort him. Even if it’s just overtired his feelings matter.
2) what is your bedtime routine and when is bedtime? Without a nap I would test out somewhere between 7-8. My DD (same age) seems to have fewer wake ups and sleeps longer when she goes down around 8 (vs 7) and her room is warm enough (space heater since she prefers to sleep in short nightgowns).
3) it’s normal to be scared. You have to toe and exhausting line of being there for him and protecting his sleep. When DD sneaks into our room she will get into bed with us. We pick her up and carry her back. She will freak out usually, and we try and be calm when asking what’s wrong and telling her we won’t leave for a bit. Then we lay with her while she falls back asleep (and tell her that - I am going to leave in a little bit).

Posters will say “noooooo bad habit!” But here we are about three months in and most nights she does sleep through again. It’s just a phase. Do what feels right to you as a parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There haven’t been any big changes in our life lately. Ds just seems so anxious and sad at times.

Any idea what this is?

The rest of the world is plenty anxious and sad right now, too. No mystery there.

[Anonymous]

I do think you need to work on getting him to fall asleep and stay in his room alone the whole night, OR have him sleep on his mattress in your room the whole night. The fact that he is rousing himself mid sleep during a light part of his sleep cycle to seek something out (you) is what is causing him to not STTN again.

As a parent of a kid with anxiety, I know it feels heartbreaking to make them tough it out through something like this, but with my DD, we would do all the comforting stuff and it would get worse, not better. We would buckle down with some gentle tough love and after a few nights she would be sleeping through the night again and was happier and less anxious throughout the day. Here are a few things you can try:
-He picks out a new stuffed animal for comfort
-New nightlight (low light or red light to not distrust sleep—but one that stays on all night, don’t turn it off or that’s something else that will be different mid sleep cycle)
-give him a coin or button or whatever that is his one “get mom and dad coin” for him to use once a night if he has a nightmare or feels sick...just having control over that and not thinking you’ll never let him come to you again can help.
-nothing wrong with some bribes upon waking...if you stay in your room all night you’ll get this lego kit you’ve been wanting. And I’m not saying for 5 nights in a row or whatever...for the first night. It’ll give him the incentive to stay if he can, and that will give him confidence. 3 $5 gifts in a row is worth it to kick good sleep back into gear.
-stay calm! Don’t get mad, but also be consistent and don’t give in. Good sleep habits are so important.

[Anonymous]

We had a period of sleep regression (not during Covid) and used a sticker chart. Every day without extra requests at bed time was one sticker. Another for not getting up except for the bathroom. We let her out the stickers up. For a while just the stickers was enough.

Then we tied it to prizes. It fixed the issue.

[Anonymous]

Oh - I would add that having the prizes in the house is important. So that as soon as he earns five stickers or whatever, he gets the matchbox cars or the art supply or whatever. Earning and then waiting for it to get there from amazon or until you go to Target to get it is too much.

[Anonymous]

He needs a nap. Run outside in the cold before lunch. Hearty warm lunch and reading books and a nap. Even a short one.
My 4.5 year old still naps and is so much more pleasant on those days in the evening.

[Anonymous]

You clearly know he is way too tired. Why is his room so busy? Try getting rid of most things, noise machines, and I suggest making sure his room is super clean and tidy. No toys all over, not that I know it is messy, but just in case.
Dark blinds in his room too. Block the light. Remove the mattress from your room.
I think he's waking up 45 minutes after he falls asleep is also due to tiredness. Remember that critical time when you are still not in a deep sleep but drowsy, and then you get startled? Many babies do this. We have parents posting how just as they think the baby is asleep, the baby screams bloody murder? I think your DS learned how to stay awake even if he is tired, so when he wakes up, he is thinking about what to do, where to go, and he is making himself not fall asleep. Ensure he knows he can go to the bathroom and then straight back to bed at 4 am.