The Karen meme silences White women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted link to the article and suggest every woman read it. This is a powerful excerpt:

“If you’re female, and like Bindel you make the error of suggesting the Karen thing is transparent sexism, then you’ll meet those men in your mentions — deeply aggrieved by the suggestion that you, a Karen, should presume to tell them how to speak. It’s impossible to unpick the origins of the Karen meme from the morass of the internet, but if it really were a cherished piece of racial justice rhetoric, it seems likely we’d be having a wider conversation about how these angry white men have culturally appropriated it. The fact that we’re not doing that suggests how flimsy the defence is.

When Karen is used to belittle women, and especially when it’s being used to belittle women for showing solidarity with other women (as in a tweet calling the MP Jess Phillips “Shadow Karen Minister”, which went viral after she was appointed shadow minister for domestic violence and safeguarding), this is precisely in line with its accepted usage. It’s a finger trap insult, where struggling against it only makes it grip tighter. When its defenders say that there’s no reason to worry about it so long as you’re not a Karen, what they’re really doing is proffering an individual exit from the abuse — so long as you agree that some women deserve it, maybe you can qualify for a pass.”

It hurts us all when we use it or accept it. I can say that NONE of my black female friends have used it on social media. Another friend (she is black e mixed race kids) told me she corrects her kids when they use it because she doesn’t want to raise self-haters or misogynists. Online in my FB feed, the breakdown of people using it is nearly 90 percent male and white. Not 10 mins ago, a fairly thoughtful (make) friend posted something about what defunding the police really means and not 4 minutes later one of his white male friends said “does this mean “Karen” can’t dial 911 when her takeout order is wrong?” Do a simple search of your own FB feed, or search the search field of FB. The first hit I got in the general search was a Karen group run by a guy whose feed is otherwise peppered with pro-Trump, anti-protestor memes- including some truly offensive, provocative posts about “mowing down protestors.” Women who have objected to this on social media are quickly ratio’d - not by POC but by white men who are shocked — shocked! — at the woman’s insensitivity and they may call her a racist - but a quick check on their profile shows you what you’re dealing with. These are men’s rights fools, Trumpers, Bernie Bro’s and, most insidiously, your neighbor down the street or from the pool who hates his lady boss and needs and outlet for it and is tired of women he thinks are interrupting him when they just keep talking over his attempt to interrupt HIM and is tired of being told he is mansplaining when he’s just trying to point out something the woman may benefit from. (Btw, I don’t use that term either).

The Karen term seems to have originated on Reddit with a guy hate blogging his divorce. Whether st some point it became part of the linguistic tools that POC use to describe a very specific experience of a white woman verbally abusing or harassing POC in service roles. I’m not going to rage at this or pretend it’s the equivalent of a racial slur, but it absolutely is the equivalent of calling women broads or chicks or bitches or dikes. The blog very smart brothas goes here - a bunch of men feeling free to use gender slurs.. and where anyone, including his black readers, objects the others say “hi Karen” or look, it’s Karen’s little sister Becky. But still, at least there IS a racial validation there.

Otherwise this seems to be mainly used by white men, and then also by some whites women to either out “woke” one another or to diss other women or out of a sense that they can signal themselves as an ally by becoming fluent. I have one friend, white mom, who posts endlessly about being an ally and throws the term Karen around but this family has parties and Large gatherings frequently and I have literally never seen a black family at their house. But she’s using the term too. Why?! I loved the excerpt of the essay above. It IS a finger trap insult. If you object they say just don’t be a Karen, Karen. Well there are plenty of racially or gender or other loaded terms we could say that about where it would be wrong. So is calling someone “karen”.

It’s wrong.

If you are a POC and feel the value to you outweights the harm to allies, who can certainly take it, I’m not here to say stop. But if you’re white, male or female, and you use this, you’re either being misogynistic or trying to signal you’re “not one of those” same as when I was in high school I used to say “I think women should have jobs and all that but I wouldn’t call myself a feminist” - distancing from the shunned so you don’t get hit too? Showing yourself to be better than the others? Culturally appropriating something that came from bitter white men and/or POC whose use isn’t the same as yours?

I’m with you, friend.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

Awww, poor snowflake con man

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you are basing your ideals on this one thread, then yeah, that’s looney. You are also choosing to deliberately ignore the meaning of Karen and the numerous public examples posted in the news. It has been said so many times that being simply assertive isn't the meaning of Karen. That’s the meaning YOU want for it.

If your home country has those people then why the hell are you here?! Tell us this country so we can all go there. Also, it’s “privileged.”

DP. No, YOU'RE ignoring how people use Karen. Check out how everybody abused OP for the first 5 pages of this thread, for just thinking about being assertive.

Check out the Urban Dictionary definitions--they don't necessarily involve kicking and screaming, just asking for the manager.

Good luck policing that behavior to confirm with your private definition.

(Ignoring the bigoted second para of your thread.)

Did OP want to speak to someone at the smoothie place in order to complain?

Fifth post on the thread. OP wanted to, but didn't speak with anybody. She doesn't mention talking to the manager specifically, just somebody. She had a legitimate concern about COVID. She certainly didn't kick and scream, or suggest that she was planning to kick and scream--she tells us the mild-sounding questions she wanted to ask.

I am the OP, not a troll. And an example of when I might have spoken in the past but did not recently. I ordered curbside pick up from a local smoothie shop a few weeks ago, before we were in phase 1 opening, the restaurant was advertising curbside Pick-up. I ordered my smoothie online, however, When I drove to the shop to pick it up there are a line of people inside the store to order and a line waiting (Inside as well) at the counter to pick up their smoothies. A year ago if this happened, pre-Karen meme, I would have said something along the lines of aren’t we supposed to be doing curbside? Why is everybody in the store? This time I just walked away.

Cue pages of abuse....

OP, you admitted that you wanted to talk to the manager but were afraid because of the Karen meme. Now you feel "silenced" because you couldn't browbeat the manager without risking being recorded and ending up as an example of a Karen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

Awww, poor snowflake con man

Further proof. Keep going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you are basing your ideals on this one thread, then yeah, that’s looney. You are also choosing to deliberately ignore the meaning of Karen and the numerous public examples posted in the news. It has been said so many times that being simply assertive isn't the meaning of Karen. That’s the meaning YOU want for it.

If your home country has those people then why the hell are you here?! Tell us this country so we can all go there. Also, it’s “privileged.”

DP. No, YOU'RE ignoring how people use Karen. Check out how everybody abused OP for the first 5 pages of this thread, for just thinking about being assertive.

Check out the Urban Dictionary definitions--they don't necessarily involve kicking and screaming, just asking for the manager.

Good luck policing that behavior to confirm with your private definition.

(Ignoring the bigoted second para of your thread.)

Did OP want to speak to someone at the smoothie place in order to complain?

Fifth post on the thread. OP wanted to, but didn't speak with anybody. She doesn't mention talking to the manager specifically, just somebody. She had a legitimate concern about COVID. She certainly didn't kick and scream, or suggest that she was planning to kick and scream--she tells us the mild-sounding questions she wanted to ask.

I am the OP, not a troll. And an example of when I might have spoken in the past but did not recently. I ordered curbside pick up from a local smoothie shop a few weeks ago, before we were in phase 1 opening, the restaurant was advertising curbside Pick-up. I ordered my smoothie online, however, When I drove to the shop to pick it up there are a line of people inside the store to order and a line waiting (Inside as well) at the counter to pick up their smoothies. A year ago if this happened, pre-Karen meme, I would have said something along the lines of aren’t we supposed to be doing curbside? Why is everybody in the store? This time I just walked away.

Cue pages of abuse....

OP, you admitted that you wanted to talk to the manager but were afraid because of the Karen meme. Now you feel "silenced" because you couldn't browbeat the manager without risking being recorded and ending up as an example of a Karen.

Interesting choice of words. So we’re back to the idea that she can’t ask the manager to fix an incorrect order because that’s “browbeating” and whatever else Karens do. So she should take her wrong order/poor service/confusion directions and walk away quietly. Hmmmm.

[Anonymous]

Generalizations are a pain and a half aren’t they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, you admitted that you wanted to talk to the manager but were afraid because of the Karen meme. Now you feel "silenced" because you couldn't browbeat the manager without risking being recorded and ending up as an example of a Karen.

I suspect OP is long gone.

But, stop making stuff up. At least be honest. OP didn't want to "browbeat" the manager. From the fifth post on page 1 of this thread, here's what OP said she wanted to say, and she doesn't even mention the manager.

A year ago if this happened, pre-Karen meme, I would have said something along the lines of aren’t we supposed to be doing curbside? Why is everybody in the store? This time I just walked away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

Awww, poor snowflake con man

Further proof. Keep going.

It's hilarious that you see these stereotypes as insults, and it's irrelevant that you pretend you don't care.

Methinks these are here to teach you a lesson about ugly stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

Awww, poor snowflake con man

Further proof. Keep going.

It's hilarious that you see these stereotypes as insults, and it's irrelevant that you pretend you don't care.

Methinks these are here to teach you a lesson about ugly stereotypes.

You are using them as insults. You’ve been using conservative and Donnie as insults. You even used Karen (even though you claim to be fighting against it). It’s hilarious you are trying to back peddle. Just keep going. You’ll eventually find yourself full circle again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

Awww, poor snowflake con man

Further proof. Keep going.

It's hilarious that you see these stereotypes as insults, and it's irrelevant that you pretend you don't care.

Methinks these are here to teach you a lesson about ugly stereotypes.

You are using them as insults. You’ve been using conservative and Donnie as insults. You even used Karen (even though you claim to be fighting against it). It’s hilarious you are trying to back peddle. Just keep going. You’ll eventually find yourself full circle again.

Hey, why don't you address the accusations that you were lying about whether or not OP was actually trying to "browbeat" a "manager"? The posts are right above this one. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

Awww, poor snowflake con man

Further proof. Keep going.

It's hilarious that you see these stereotypes as insults, and it's irrelevant that you pretend you don't care.

Methinks these are here to teach you a lesson about ugly stereotypes.

You are using them as insults. You’ve been using conservative and Donnie as insults. You even used Karen (even though you claim to be fighting against it). It’s hilarious you are trying to back peddle. Just keep going. You’ll eventually find yourself full circle again.

Hey, why don't you address the accusations that you were lying about whether or not OP was actually trying to "browbeat" a "manager"? The posts are right above this one. Thanks!

Yeah that wasn’t me. So I’ll let that poster handle that. Thanks!

So instead of trying to switch focus off of your hypocrisy, why don’t you address it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have never called someone a Karen, but this thread has made me rethink that. I will use it liberally now.

I would rather be a Karen, than someone who resorts to calling other people names.

Karen is abusive to service workers and usually calls people names. So there ya go.

Great, so say that. That’s more effective to show the issue when you name the problem rather than name calling.

Is it? Bc using Karen really seems to upset people. No one cares about being called a jerk.

I don’t believe anyone would call me a “Karen” but I care about sexism.
This is not about me personally, but for example, I run a school-wide e-mail to 2,000 recipients and I collect submissions for it. Another parent wanted to submit a random behavioral complaint about kids in the email, and I said - unfortunately I’m not going to use this forum for that - and the person said - that’s how this email used to be run. And I said - Well, I’m in charge now.
I don’t think the people who you want to be upset about it, are upset about it, and moreover you’re harming all women to perpetuate the stereotype of them as complainers.

If that’s how you view the definition then that’s how you view it. The women being called Karen in the news aren’t just complainers.

And yet the people on this thread are prime examples of people choosing to expand that definition just so that they can demean white women. Disgusting. Its only a matter of time before an Asian woman gets called that here.

The series Dead to Me has tackled the Karen meme but casting the neighbor as a timid middle aged Asian woman named Karen. Everyone avoids her and dismisses her with "Okay, Karen" or "Bye, Karen." The woman is not assertive or aggressive or racist, but she is frumpy, middle aged, and not cool. It really highlights the misogyny of the whole meme being about women of a certain age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

Awww, poor snowflake con man

Further proof. Keep going.

It's hilarious that you see these stereotypes as insults, and it's irrelevant that you pretend you don't care.

Methinks these are here to teach you a lesson about ugly stereotypes.

You are using them as insults. You’ve been using conservative and Donnie as insults. You even used Karen (even though you claim to be fighting against it). It’s hilarious you are trying to back peddle. Just keep going. You’ll eventually find yourself full circle again.

Hey, why don't you address the accusations that you were lying about whether or not OP was actually trying to "browbeat" a "manager"? The posts are right above this one. Thanks!

Yeah that wasn’t me. So I’ll let that poster handle that. Thanks!

So instead of trying to switch focus off of your hypocrisy, why don’t you address it?

You're talking to multiple people here. Not worried about being a hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ DP. The pp who’s been on here 24/7 insisting on his right to call women Karens is a white conservative male. Totally fits.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself, since you are the only person on here 24/7 constantly talking about conservatives.

Awww, poor snowflake con man

Further proof. Keep going.

It's hilarious that you see these stereotypes as insults, and it's irrelevant that you pretend you don't care.

Methinks these are here to teach you a lesson about ugly stereotypes.

You are using them as insults. You’ve been using conservative and Donnie as insults. You even used Karen (even though you claim to be fighting against it). It’s hilarious you are trying to back peddle. Just keep going. You’ll eventually find yourself full circle again.

Hey, why don't you address the accusations that you were lying about whether or not OP was actually trying to "browbeat" a "manager"? The posts are right above this one. Thanks!

Yeah that wasn’t me. So I’ll let that poster handle that. Thanks!

So instead of trying to switch focus off of your hypocrisy, why don’t you address it?

You're talking to multiple people here. Not worried about being a hypocrite.

Yeah ok. Nothing like a good lie.