Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??

I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the timeline, it is definitely compressed because when Logan died they said it was a week before the election, and that election has not happened. That is what allows them to show the rawness in the kids' reactions to the dad's death. Roman and Shiv are obviously going through it. Kendall "has the best grief guy" and is too busy cos-playing CEO to come to terms with his feelings, but I sense that is coming and it will be brutal. And the funeral hasn't even happened yet. How many episodes are left? 3 or 4? I assume one will be the funeral, maybe the election will happen in the finale?

There are 10 episodes this season, so 4. Next episode is dedicated to the event Shiv is hosting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the timeline, it is definitely compressed because when Logan died they said it was a week before the election, and that election has not happened. That is what allows them to show the rawness in the kids' reactions to the dad's death. Roman and Shiv are obviously going through it. Kendall "has the best grief guy" and is too busy cos-playing CEO to come to terms with his feelings, but I sense that is coming and it will be brutal. And the funeral hasn't even happened yet. How many episodes are left? 3 or 4? I assume one will be the funeral, maybe the election will happen in the finale?

There are 10 episodes this season, so 4. Next episode is dedicated to the event Shiv is hosting.

Shiv or Kendall? The scenes from next week made it seem like Kendall is hosting (something about it being the first post-product launch tailgate party without Logan, indicating that maybe normal this would have been hosted at Logan's apartment).

Though Shiv, Roman, and Kendall's apartments always look the same to me -- huge, modern, empty, with massive views of the city and/or river. There are certain views of Shiv/Tom's apartment that are more obvious (they have that two story part with all the glass that is more apparent from certain angles). So it could honestly be any of them. It's not Logan's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the timeline, it is definitely compressed because when Logan died they said it was a week before the election, and that election has not happened. That is what allows them to show the rawness in the kids' reactions to the dad's death. Roman and Shiv are obviously going through it. Kendall "has the best grief guy" and is too busy cos-playing CEO to come to terms with his feelings, but I sense that is coming and it will be brutal. And the funeral hasn't even happened yet. How many episodes are left? 3 or 4? I assume one will be the funeral, maybe the election will happen in the finale?

It's sort of interesting to look at the kids in terms of grief stages. Roman is clearly at anger, Kendall is clearly in denial. I think Shiv is either in bargaining or depression (she's doing a lot of masking, much more than her brothers are, because I think she has a lot more self-awareness about how others view her).

I think Connor is at acceptance and has been pretty much from the moment he heard -- I think he had done more to come to terms with his relationship with is dad than any of the rest of them, perhaps one of the rare advantages of being at the child who was most neglected and ignored. The other kids have a lot more unresolved feelings about their dad and I think are struggling a lot more to accept his death as a result.

[Anonymous]

I still think the ultimate ending will be that one of the kids wins but only at the cost of alienating absolutely everyone else in the family. Shiv wins but she betrays Tom back, betrays Kendall (maybe by giving him up for murder or threatening to do so) and that alienates her forever from Roman also; it's clear she will be a terrible mom because she starts making bad decisions about putting work before the kid (or doesn't have the kid at all), etc. Or the same with Kendall or Roman. I do kind of think Kendall's sharing of his murdering will come back to haunt him.

In that way the dad's prophesy about you needing to be a killer to do the job of running the company will come true, and his own estrangement from the rest of his family will get passed down to the next in charge, as if part of the succession. The point being that it's a brutal game playing at the top, and if you can't stomach betraying everyone you know and love for the price of being in charge, then you can't make the decisions that you need to make to be there.

I'm not saying that's actually true, just that I think it's the pov of the show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked the episode, especially the Shiv/Tom scenes, and how Kendall and Roman are in way over their heads.

But did anybody else find the finance part really shallow? It's like they were spitballing big finance words with no connected train of logic. In one sense that probably just shows how badly Kendall and Roman are in over their heads. But they weren't the only ones tossing around "big finance words" and part of me thinks it was lazy or ignorant writing.

YES. The ridiculous corporate jargon was appallingly bad - not sure if it was meant to be or not. Jeremy Strong is an excellent actor. Kendall is just so pathetically out of his depth (and Roman too). However, they did manage to sell that Living+ concept successfully, so maybe they're doing something right?

I'm finding Shiv to be pretty repugnant in her treatment of Tom. The way she speaks to him - ugh. She seems to thrive on diminishing him any way she can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t know what Tom knows right now.

The Shiv scenes are the only ones I care about right now.

The whole thing with Kendall and Roman and living plus or whatever made no sense and was dumb. Sorry. Dumb dumb. Not believable, and dumb.

It's... an old folks home? But with film directors stopping by to screen movies? And also maybe we'll figure out how to help you live an extra 50 years I don't know how don't ask but we're looking into it?

I was annoyed that it played well in the room and looked like a win for Kendall after his presentation was over. I mean, I guess it's more interesting if Kendall and Roman don't instantly fall flat on their faces and lose to Lukas/Shiv/Geri/Karl/everyone rooting against them, but it still strains credulity. I think IRL a presentation like that would get eviscerated on Twitter and wind up knocking the company's stock price down. But what do I know.

Totally agree. It feels like they are setting each kid up for a win (Shiv last week, Kendall this week, I expect Roman will get his next? Though he has been flaying so much it might not happen), just so they can all be destroyed and brought low by the end of the season. I don't see a successful "succession" path for any of them, this show is not going to give out happy endings for the Roy kids.

DP. I almost hope it ends somewhat like The Americans ended (not literally) - with absolutely everything taken from the siblings and them left with nothing. Though I don't see how that could happen because even if the company tanked, they all still have personal homes and millions in bank accounts, assets, etc. Interesting to think about though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO I think Tom already knows and Shiv may have already told him, it just wasn’t shown.

I don't think she has - she always looks like she really wants to and is just about to, but then doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am another who was confused by some parts of this episode, especially the ending. So Roman was annoyed because it looked like Kendall pulled it off? And then Kendall was the one who sent Roman that video he watched in the car at the end?

I think Roman is having a full blown meltdown over his dad's death and is very much in the "RAGE" stage of grief and is just lashing out at literally everyone he comes into contact with -- the studio head, Geri, Kendall, everyone. Like Kendall is still in this phase of "yay we get to play CEO and everyone will think we're geniuses" and Roman isn't even thinking about that. He's just reacting emotionally to every stimulus that crosses his path.

Also, I feel very confident that he had that video of his dad talking $hit about him made for himself. Roman has always had a huge masochism fetish (see, i.e., his entire relationship with Geri) and I think he finds it comforting to be ridiculed by his father. This is actually a classic response to childhood abuse and trauma -- if the only attention you ever received from your parent was negative and cruel, then you will develop the belief that cruelty is a form of love.

DP. Kendall sent him the video; Roman didn't have it made for himself. That said, he definitely was listening to it over and over for the reasons you mention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

Private jets, helicopters, billionaires. It's not that unrealistic. These people are not booking commercial flights, wasting time in traffic, standing in lines, etc.

Though they obviously spent at least 2 days in Norway (there's an overnight).

Speaking of private jets, I found that scene with Shiv and Lukas on the plane pretty hilarious in terms of billionaire ahole behavior. Him calling from the next jet over, then walking over BAREFOOT to visit, then making some comment about the interior of her jet and her rolling her eyes and calling him out on the childishness of insulin someone's private jet interior. I have no idea if that's what it's actually like to live that life but it was funny to contemplate in that scene.

+1
I don't like Shiv, but I do like the way she puts that ahole in his place. That's refreshing to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Shiv was crying in the dark room, she was looking at her phone, and this was after the assistant made a deal about "your appointment." She could very well have just scheduled some time to cry, like she told Tom. But could there be something else, too?

I thought it was related to the pregnancy.

Ooh, I just had a thought. Shiv had scheduled time in that room and she also received a phone call right as Tom walked in, but she flipped her phone over immediately so he couldn't see. Could she have been about to schedule an abortion?
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This episode really would have benefitted from a lot more Greg -- specifically, "normal' Greg from the earlier seasons. This is the first time we've gotten to see Waystar Studios, and it would have been helpful to have been introduced to it through Greg's humorous reactions to it and some good Tom/Greg banter. It seemed weird to suddenly be in this completely new setting without much background.

I liked that Kendall's presentation was successful, even though it seemed like they were setting us up for it to be a complete disaster. I was found myself both surprised and pleased that Kendall was supportive of Roman's rash decisions to fire Joy and Gerri. Of course, those were terrible decisions -- but I liked seeing Kendall having his brother's back like that.

+1
I also liked that Kendall's presentation was successful, especially after I physically cringed in the beginning when he kept repeating " big shoes, big shoes." I really thought he was going to break down, right there, but he got back on track and delivered a very compelling presentation. Didn't see that coming. But Kendall is truly off-the-rails and it show not only in his crazy scheming, but also in the way that he supported Roman's firing of Joy and Gerri - no questions asked! Bizarre stuff.

I still don't quite understand why Roman fired Joy, as it seemed she was saying all the right things. I guess he's just a hair-trigger from implosion himself, and the slightest thing sets him off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??

I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.

I’ve always had inklings that Tom was going to eventually hit Shiv. A long time ago when she was belittling him during a dinner date with another couple and he snapped at her- I saw it then- and that, combined with his cruelty to Greg and his smarmy niceness to Shiv most of the time…. And now, when he bit her and she was like “oh you finally made me feel something” …. I could be off base but I really could see him being a closet abuser. And shiv, with her history of trauma and abuse, would probably “love” him more when he did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Shiv was crying in the dark room, she was looking at her phone, and this was after the assistant made a deal about "your appointment." She could very well have just scheduled some time to cry, like she told Tom. But could there be something else, too?

I thought it was related to the pregnancy.

Ooh, I just had a thought. Shiv had scheduled time in that room and she also received a phone call right as Tom walked in, but she flipped her phone over immediately so he couldn't see. Could she have been about to schedule an abortion?
DP

No