Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me something dumb: WHY do they want to tank the Matson deal? I am clearly missing something.

Agree with others that the simple answer is that they want to run it. At least I think that's what it is for Kendall. I think for Roman it has to do with being unable to let go of his dad and accept his death, and the dual loss of his dad and the company so close in time is too disorienting for him, so holding onto he company (especially in an underhanded, crappy way) is more appealing to him than simply selling the company (in an above-board, logical way). He's messed up and without his dysfunctional relationship with his dad and this albatross of a company hanging around his neck, he might actually have to deal with his damage.

I think for Kendall it's all ego and wanting to finally prove he's as good as his dad.

Agree with this. They want to prove they can run it.

They also have no purpose in their lives without it. They are utterly incompetent and know they could not build something as successful as their father did, even with all the money in the world.

The premise is a bit flawed in that way- like the Roy kids, most people raised by someone like Logan are very aware that they will never be as successful as their parents and could not run their businesses as successfully. They will have been given every advantage in life and will usually not have the grit required to build a business that way. Many won’t even have an interest in the work required, and would just quietly take the money and live a lavish life doing whatever passion projects. Shiv seems to be the most of that mindset at this point, and is the most realistic is that sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

I think Brian Cox misspoke when he described the season's timeline. Episodes 1-3 (and maybe 4) followed the one consecutive day per episode rule, but we saw at least two days in Norway, and at least two days in LA (the presentation was "tomorrow" and then we saw the presentation.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

But she still obviously looks different. She was pregnant during filming but said viewers wouldn't be able to tell. Sorry, but we can tell.

Maybe they are just doing the thing where they pretend it's not happening and we're supposed to pretend too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t know what Tom knows right now.

The Shiv scenes are the only ones I care about right now.

The whole thing with Kendall and Roman and living plus or whatever made no sense and was dumb. Sorry. Dumb dumb. Not believable, and dumb.

It's... an old folks home? But with film directors stopping by to screen movies? And also maybe we'll figure out how to help you live an extra 50 years I don't know how don't ask but we're looking into it?

I was annoyed that it played well in the room and looked like a win for Kendall after his presentation was over. I mean, I guess it's more interesting if Kendall and Roman don't instantly fall flat on their faces and lose to Lukas/Shiv/Geri/Karl/everyone rooting against them, but it still strains credulity. I think IRL a presentation like that would get eviscerated on Twitter and wind up knocking the company's stock price down. But what do I know.

All this is largely correct, but the entire point of this rollout (as far as Roman and Kendall are concerned) is to tank the Matsson deal, whether it's through insanity or driving up the stock price. And the financial press is not known for its immunity to irrational exuberance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Shiv was crying in the dark room, she was looking at her phone, and this was after the assistant made a deal about "your appointment." She could very well have just scheduled some time to cry, like she told Tom. But could there be something else, too?

I thought it was related to the pregnancy.

I also thought the "appointment" was going to be pregnancy-related because of how her assistant came to get her (like someone was waiting for her). I even thought for a moment that maybe there would be a doctor or a technician in there and she'd be getting a scan or something (insane for a normal person, but rich people have doctors who do stuff like that).

I still think it was more than just "my assistant is scheduling my grief." Because when Tom and Greg walked in, there was some weirdness where the camera caught Shiv either turning off her phone or putting it away. I think? I remember seeing her phone screen lit up in the dark room. So maybe she had a call with her doctor or was getting more test results or something? I don't know. They hid Shiv's pregnancy from us for the first three episodes of the season and we still have yet to see Shiv discuss it with anyone other than the one time on the phone. So there could be a lot about the situation we don't know that will be revealed to us at some point and make us reassess Shiv's behavior throughout the season. I don't know.

I'm curious too, because it felt like "scheduled grief" was a cover. I paused on her phone during that scene and it looked like she had a timer running, but I couldn't make out any other details on the screen. It's too early to be doing kick counts, so maybe it really was just 10 timed minutes to cry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please tell me something dumb: WHY do they want to tank the Matson deal? I am clearly missing something.

Agree with others that the simple answer is that they want to run it. At least I think that's what it is for Kendall. I think for Roman it has to do with being unable to let go of his dad and accept his death, and the dual loss of his dad and the company so close in time is too disorienting for him, so holding onto he company (especially in an underhanded, crappy way) is more appealing to him than simply selling the company (in an above-board, logical way). He's messed up and without his dysfunctional relationship with his dad and this albatross of a company hanging around his neck, he might actually have to deal with his damage.

I think for Kendall it's all ego and wanting to finally prove he's as good as his dad.

Agree with this. They want to prove they can run it.

They also have no purpose in their lives without it. They are utterly incompetent and know they could not build something as successful as their father did, even with all the money in the world.

The premise is a bit flawed in that way- like the Roy kids, most people raised by someone like Logan are very aware that they will never be as successful as their parents and could not run their businesses as successfully. They will have been given every advantage in life and will usually not have the grit required to build a business that way. Many won’t even have an interest in the work required, and would just quietly take the money and live a lavish life doing whatever passion projects. Shiv seems to be the most of that mindset at this point, and is the most realistic is that sense.

That might be true in many cases but I think a big part of Succession is that not only were these kids born into enormous wealth and in the shadow of a parent they can't possible equal, but they were also abused throughout their childhoods and into adulthood by that parent (as well as by their mother). You are describing a situation where someone grows up in privilege because of a wildly successful parent, but still manages to have somewhat normal emotional development and become a functioning adult. I think Kendall and Roman were both physically and emotionally abused by their dad for 40 years, plus abandoned by their mother. So they can't process this in a healthy way at all.

Shiv was her dad's favorite, and the youngest, so perhaps didn't experience as much abuse. She also got some protection from Connor, I think. She was smart enough to try and get away from her dad and Waystar after college, building a career in another field and living a life outside their family bubble to some degree. She's better prepared for a world without Logan in it. Kendall and Roman very much are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

I think Brian Cox misspoke when he described the season's timeline. Episodes 1-3 (and maybe 4) followed the one consecutive day per episode rule, but we saw at least two days in Norway, and at least two days in LA (the presentation was "tomorrow" and then we saw the presentation.)

Agreed. It makes sense because by the time the show starts moving away from the "episode a day" format, his character is dead, so he likely wasn't getting those scripts or paying as much attention to them.

But I do think he's correct that we're talking about an incredibly compressed time period here. Like this episode didn't take place two weeks after Norway. It clearly takes place right after Norway, with Kendall and Roman debriefing the management team on their "negotiations" with Matsson at the top of the mountain, and this being the first time any of them have seen each other since the flight back form Norway. So, at most, a couple days later. But conceivably they all landed in NY after the action of the Norway episode, spend the night there, and then hopped on jets the next morning for LA.

Which also introduces the idea that all of these people are incredibly jet lagged and sleep deprived in addition to being stressed and grief-ridden. Which also tracks with Shiv's comment to Tom that she is having to schedule her grief because her dad died less than a week ago and in that time she's traveled to Norway and LA and been working long days, while pregnant.

Also, if there was a time jump forward, then we missed the funeral, and I don't think we're going to miss the funeral because they made too big a deal of it in the last couple episodes, hinting at the conservative presidential candidate coming and then with Connor's scenes at the funeral home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

I think Brian Cox misspoke when he described the season's timeline. Episodes 1-3 (and maybe 4) followed the one consecutive day per episode rule, but we saw at least two days in Norway, and at least two days in LA (the presentation was "tomorrow" and then we saw the presentation.)

Agreed. It makes sense because by the time the show starts moving away from the "episode a day" format, his character is dead, so he likely wasn't getting those scripts or paying as much attention to them.

But I do think he's correct that we're talking about an incredibly compressed time period here. Like this episode didn't take place two weeks after Norway. It clearly takes place right after Norway, with Kendall and Roman debriefing the management team on their "negotiations" with Matsson at the top of the mountain, and this being the first time any of them have seen each other since the flight back form Norway. So, at most, a couple days later. But conceivably they all landed in NY after the action of the Norway episode, spend the night there, and then hopped on jets the next morning for LA.

Which also introduces the idea that all of these people are incredibly jet lagged and sleep deprived in addition to being stressed and grief-ridden. Which also tracks with Shiv's comment to Tom that she is having to schedule her grief because her dad died less than a week ago and in that time she's traveled to Norway and LA and been working long days, while pregnant.

Also, if there was a time jump forward, then we missed the funeral, and I don't think we're going to miss the funeral because they made too big a deal of it in the last couple episodes, hinting at the conservative presidential candidate coming and then with Connor's scenes at the funeral home.

The next episode looks like it's in NY at an apartment.

I find their sarcasm to be too much and confusing. Like the convo with Tom and Shiv, were they joking around or being serious? It's too hard to tell.

[Anonymous]

I wonder whether Succession is causing Rupert Murdoch to put all plans for what happens at Fox after he might die into certified, undeniable, blessed-by-multiple-attorneys writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

I think Brian Cox misspoke when he described the season's timeline. Episodes 1-3 (and maybe 4) followed the one consecutive day per episode rule, but we saw at least two days in Norway, and at least two days in LA (the presentation was "tomorrow" and then we saw the presentation.)

Agreed. It makes sense because by the time the show starts moving away from the "episode a day" format, his character is dead, so he likely wasn't getting those scripts or paying as much attention to them.

But I do think he's correct that we're talking about an incredibly compressed time period here. Like this episode didn't take place two weeks after Norway. It clearly takes place right after Norway, with Kendall and Roman debriefing the management team on their "negotiations" with Matsson at the top of the mountain, and this being the first time any of them have seen each other since the flight back form Norway. So, at most, a couple days later. But conceivably they all landed in NY after the action of the Norway episode, spend the night there, and then hopped on jets the next morning for LA.

Which also introduces the idea that all of these people are incredibly jet lagged and sleep deprived in addition to being stressed and grief-ridden. Which also tracks with Shiv's comment to Tom that she is having to schedule her grief because her dad died less than a week ago and in that time she's traveled to Norway and LA and been working long days, while pregnant.

Also, if there was a time jump forward, then we missed the funeral, and I don't think we're going to miss the funeral because they made too big a deal of it in the last couple episodes, hinting at the conservative presidential candidate coming and then with Connor's scenes at the funeral home.

The next episode looks like it's in NY at an apartment.

I find their sarcasm to be too much and confusing. Like the convo with Tom and Shiv, were they joking around or being serious? It's too hard to tell.

And next episode is definitely immediately after this one because Kendall says he's hosting a "tailgate" party for the product launch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

I think Brian Cox misspoke when he described the season's timeline. Episodes 1-3 (and maybe 4) followed the one consecutive day per episode rule, but we saw at least two days in Norway, and at least two days in LA (the presentation was "tomorrow" and then we saw the presentation.)

Agreed. It makes sense because by the time the show starts moving away from the "episode a day" format, his character is dead, so he likely wasn't getting those scripts or paying as much attention to them.

But I do think he's correct that we're talking about an incredibly compressed time period here. Like this episode didn't take place two weeks after Norway. It clearly takes place right after Norway, with Kendall and Roman debriefing the management team on their "negotiations" with Matsson at the top of the mountain, and this being the first time any of them have seen each other since the flight back form Norway. So, at most, a couple days later. But conceivably they all landed in NY after the action of the Norway episode, spend the night there, and then hopped on jets the next morning for LA.

Which also introduces the idea that all of these people are incredibly jet lagged and sleep deprived in addition to being stressed and grief-ridden. Which also tracks with Shiv's comment to Tom that she is having to schedule her grief because her dad died less than a week ago and in that time she's traveled to Norway and LA and been working long days, while pregnant.

Also, if there was a time jump forward, then we missed the funeral, and I don't think we're going to miss the funeral because they made too big a deal of it in the last couple episodes, hinting at the conservative presidential candidate coming and then with Connor's scenes at the funeral home.

The next episode looks like it's in NY at an apartment.

I find their sarcasm to be too much and confusing. Like the convo with Tom and Shiv, were they joking around or being serious? It's too hard to tell.

And next episode is definitely immediately after this one because Kendall says he's hosting a "tailgate" party for the product launch.

Are they never having a funeral for Logan? Was it just the wake?

[Anonymous]

This episode really would have benefitted from a lot more Greg -- specifically, "normal' Greg from the earlier seasons. This is the first time we've gotten to see Waystar Studios, and it would have been helpful to have been introduced to it through Greg's humorous reactions to it and some good Tom/Greg banter. It seemed weird to suddenly be in this completely new setting without much background.

I liked that Kendall's presentation was successful, even though it seemed like they were setting us up for it to be a complete disaster. I was found myself both surprised and pleased that Kendall was supportive of Roman's rash decisions to fire Joy and Gerri. Of course, those were terrible decisions -- but I liked seeing Kendall having his brother's back like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

This is right, because the call was about amnio that they would have done around 15 weeks. If it was because of something on the cell-free or 12 week scan, they wouldn’t wait. But I still think he’d notice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am another who was confused by some parts of this episode, especially the ending. So Roman was annoyed because it looked like Kendall pulled it off? And then Kendall was the one who sent Roman that video he watched in the car at the end?

The idea is that Kendall came up with a crazy plan and pulled it off and Roman doubted it and stayed off the stage, while f$&ing some other stuff up. The problem is that the “Kendall’s crazy plan worked” storyline was so implausible and dumb.

[Anonymous]

In terms of the timeline, it is definitely compressed because when Logan died they said it was a week before the election, and that election has not happened. That is what allows them to show the rawness in the kids' reactions to the dad's death. Roman and Shiv are obviously going through it. Kendall "has the best grief guy" and is too busy cos-playing CEO to come to terms with his feelings, but I sense that is coming and it will be brutal. And the funeral hasn't even happened yet. How many episodes are left? 3 or 4? I assume one will be the funeral, maybe the election will happen in the finale?