Anonymous wrote:^ and you never explained why BL is entitled to the same defenses as the NYTs is.
And jfc, where did I say BL is entitled to the same defenses as the NYT? I never said that. Work on your reading comprehension, seriously.
DP, and I have no idea who You are. But there was definitely a pro Lively poster who said her MTD on defamation would succeed for the same reasons as the NyTimes. It was less than 24 hours ago, so not sure why there is collective amnesia.
Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why people are saying there’s no monetary value to the PGA credential. Producers get huge backend on movies. It’s actually why it’s really rare for a producer not to have been involved in fundraising and development and they often use a little bit of their own money to have skin in the game.
Blake missed that part of the requirement for the pga credit as she was not brought on until the movie was well developed and getting ready to shoot so she tried to make up for it in the other two phases of the requirements. But I’m pretty sure being a producer means she got backend and that is money out of Wayfair’s pocket so there is monetary value to it.
Also, if the rumors are true that Colleen Hoover had a sexual harassment clause for Justin to develop the sequel, it certainly seems Blake was trying to get chummy with Colleen Hoover, it can certainly be argued that she was trying to get the rights to the second movie which clearly has monetary value.
People waiving off Taylor’s involvement are either being naïve or deliberately obtuse. Blake threatened to not use the my tears ricochet song in the marketing of the film, which clearly has a lot of relevance to how much money the film is going to make - a Taylor Swift song in your previews is going to get people interested and watching.
It will be interesting to see if the lawyers get into the weeds on thing of value. I would argue the PGA credit is not. I would support a petition to look into rescinding her credit but I do not believe the credit is a thing of value for the purpose of extortion. Thinking along the line of this definition https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/
The credit is not really something you can exchange for money. My understanding is it's a matter of prestige. AFAIK it doesn't effect the backend. If it did, then I would reconsider. I thought Blake already had a credit. If Wayfarer and Justin lost money because of it they need to make that argument explicitly. They are suing for extortion so they are the ones who must show they meet the elements.
I would also point out they technically didn't give her the credit. They wrote a letter of support.
The movie rights I believe are a thing of value. It's a contract that can be sold to someone else for money. They would need to make a clear argument about what threats were made and to whom. The idea that they might have done this or that is too speculative. A more classic example of extortion would be "sign over the rights or ill break your legs." IMO they have to argue there was explicitly something done by Lively and co that was like "sign over the rights or we go to the press" whereas the argument I see being made in his complaint is just generally that she was pushing for more power and there was this looming threat in Justin‘s mind that she might go to the press and lie about SH. His complaint would need to be significantly reworked IMO.
But what about at least her a half dozen threats in writing from her lawyers that she would walk if they didn’t do something that she wanted? Those are all documented emails from her legal team clearly stating that she would not return to set. And After shooting was done that she would not participate in marketing. I do not understand how that is not monetary value if they shoot half the movie and Blake doesn’t return - that is a huge cost.
But it's not something of monetary value that Blake received.
Yes, had she walked, it would have cost Wayfarer a ton of money and potentially tanked the movie for good. But that's not extortion, it's a contract breach, which they could turn sue her for. But there's nothing of value she gets there.
And before anyone says "well they couldn't sue her for breach of contract because she didn't sign her contract," this probably isn't true. Once she has substantially performed enough of the contract that Wayfarer was relying on her to finish the movie, she would be beholden to their agreement to make the movie whether she signed or not.
So a legal remedy existed for them if she walked away from the film, but it's not an extortion claims.
IMO, in order to make the extortion claims, they need to rely on her threats to go public with the SH claims only, not her threats to walk away from filming or not to market the movie, both of which would have opened her up to breach of contract claims as well as other legal claims based on the money lost to both Wayfarer and Sony.
But then they still run into the "thing of value" issue. I am not sure if the p.g.a. credit would count. It seems like a stretch to me, both because it doesn't carry monetary value and because Wayfarer didn't give it to her, they just gave her an endorsement.
I don't think the thing of value could be the rights to the sequel even if she explicitly made threats to try and get them. She didn't get them, and there's no "attempted extortion" claim -- you can't bring the claim unless the defendant successfully extorted you.
I get what you’re saying - that makes total sense about the extortion, but if Justin can show all this doesn’t he have a pretty compelling case that he wasn’t retaliating against her, that he knew what she was capable of, and he feared for his career? She took over his movie, then was bashing him in the press. I’m pretty sure Wayfarer didn’t start the fat shaming rumor which is the first thing I heard about the cast unfollowing him before the premiere.
And then Ryan walking around calling him a sexual predator. I get that they don’t have a case for extortion, but it certainly seems they have a compelling case for why he hired the PR firm and just painting to the jury exactly what he was up against here.
Add to that Leslie Sloan running around and telling the press Blake is not the problem. Justin is. The whole cast hates him. And so on.
Legally, I have no idea if any of this matters, but it certainly highlights a very interesting power dynamic – mainly that she had all the power and Justin had very little.
Yes, some (though not all) of this can be presented as part of his defense against the SH and retaliation claims.
This is where I get frustrated with Freedman's approach to this case, even if it may be effective. The problem is that they didn't argue this as a defense to the SH claims. Instead, the filed their own action, dragged in the NYT, and argued for what I view as really unlikely and unsupported claims for defamation, extortion, tortious interference, etc. Like I'm sorry but I find the accusation that Lively "stole" a movie that not only still belongs to Wayfarer but off of which they've made an unbelievable sum of money to be laughable.
I get it, they wanted to get their version of events out quickly (not weighting around for responsive pleadings or trial) and they wanted to change the public perception of the SH claims. That zealous representation and it's allowed. However, Baldoni's lawsuits are borderline frivolous. They are poorly written and the legal argument is junk, when there even is one, which usually they don't bother. They used the lawsuit as a vehicle to get out a bunch of embarrassing texts and emails from Lively and Reynolds and to start building an alternate theory of the case in the public eye. This is a somewhat shady use of civil court to prosecute a case in the public eye, and it's also expensive -- the time spent on Baldoni's claims in a federal court amounts to a LOT of taxpayer dollars to essentially help him with PR problem.
And if you are okay with that, which I assume most Baldoni supporters are, I really don't get the meltdown over the VanZan Doe lawsuit, which is also a somewhat shady use of the civil court system BUT one that did not cost taxpayers a lot of money (the procedural costs of the lawsuit were minimal, a small amount of a judge and clerk's time to agree to the subpoena, which was uncontested by the served party) and is a pretty broadly used practice for obtaining evidence that could help a plaintiff shape a lawsuit to make it more viable.
I just get weary of the dramatic emotion over this case, which is a pretty interesting piece of high profile litigation, by people who clearly have no clue on how litigation works. Like this thread is full of people earnestly debating the merits of claims Baldoni is making with literally no evidence and no real legal premise, but then freaking out about the VanZan subpoena like it's some egregious abuse.
I dip in here now and then for fun, but then get accused of being a Lively shill simply for not lovingly endorsing everything about Baldoni's case, even though I rarely say anything supportive of the substance if Lively's case.
Just exhausting. Some of you are going to be so confused and angry at how this case shakes out because you just don't get how litigation works. Even the ones claiming to be lawyers! I hope you're actually law students, the comments have that vibe. Anyway, good luck.
I’m the lawyer who listened to the PO hearing, and I agree with much of this. I also dislike Freedman and his underhanded tactics. I hadn’t considered Freedman’s cross claims lawsuit as pragmatically similar to or worse than the VanZan suit in terms of waste of judicial resources and I appreciate the point.
I haven’t filed a Doe suit before and am not familiar with them, and I really don’t know if the VanZan suit crosses some ethical line. I just do find it weird that pro-Baldoni people here are very concerned about this Doe suit but basically cheer on Freedman in his various other unethical endeavors such as the Slave Labor contract, filing complaints without supporting facts that comport with the federal rules, the constant press appearances until Liman reminded him they were against the rules, etc.
Anyway, I appreciate your contributions here even if you only stop by occasionally. Your perspective always gives me something new to think about. And I just like hearing someone else go off on Freedman because otherwise I feel like I’m generally the only one in the thread who has a major problem with him. Never mind the pro-Baldoni haters and their various disagreeing comments. And — I understand you don’t necessarily like or agree with a lot of what I say, either, and that’s fine! No problem. I just do appreciate your perspective, fwiw.
Don’t know what this nonsense is, you (or the two of you) are conversing together on this thread every day, usually saying the exact same things.
Actually I believe there is another commenter besides either of us who is generally less pro-Baldoni than most of you but is different from either of us. PP who also dislikes Freedman above is a whole different person. This was clear when a pro-Baldoni person took a sort of roll call ~300 pages ago.
It would be so helpful if the pro-Baldoni people would stop posting delusional stuff about how we are all the same person or whatever. Going forward, if you continue this slop, I may post the same annoying messages about you. It’s infantile, it brings down the tone of the thread, and it wastes space. So stop, please.
Dp not delusional. We are not dumb. Let’s move on. You have a job to do, no?
Haha, what do you mean, “We” are not dumb. You are just the same person responding in here for the Baldoni side. Maybe you and just one other poster.
Do, but there are a lot more posters on the Baldoni side. Easy to tell by the different writing styles, which is also the tell with the Lively posters.
All the pro-Baldoni posts sound and reason exactly the same way. Not saying it's one person,but there is not a panoply of personalities here. It's either several people with the same personality, or one person pretending to be several but with no ability to act out the different parts.
I agree with this!! lol
Righto!
I will say that there is ONE persona that the pro-Baldoni poster adopts of a young, gossip-obsessed non-lawyer and those are always different from the drier pro-Baldoni posts. They always know what Taylor and Travis are up to and manage to insert whatever new insult some content creator has made about Lively’s weight or clothes etc. The pro-Baldoni person gets creative with these gossip obsessed comments so I give her credit for that persona.
Um, personas are actually differently people, genius.
lol. No they are not! Or at least, not necessarily! Wrong again!! (But you’ll never admit it!!)
Dictionary.com for “persona”:
the aspect of someone's character that is presented to or perceived by others.
"her public persona has been sold to millions of women as the ideal"
a role or character adopted by an author, actor, etc. or in a game.
"Bowie burned through one persona after another"
(Note that in both of these examples, the persona belongs to one person. The woman has both a public persona and, presumably, a private persona. David Bowie exhibited multiple personas.
Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why people are saying there’s no monetary value to the PGA credential. Producers get huge backend on movies. It’s actually why it’s really rare for a producer not to have been involved in fundraising and development and they often use a little bit of their own money to have skin in the game.
Blake missed that part of the requirement for the pga credit as she was not brought on until the movie was well developed and getting ready to shoot so she tried to make up for it in the other two phases of the requirements. But I’m pretty sure being a producer means she got backend and that is money out of Wayfair’s pocket so there is monetary value to it.
Also, if the rumors are true that Colleen Hoover had a sexual harassment clause for Justin to develop the sequel, it certainly seems Blake was trying to get chummy with Colleen Hoover, it can certainly be argued that she was trying to get the rights to the second movie which clearly has monetary value.
People waiving off Taylor’s involvement are either being naïve or deliberately obtuse. Blake threatened to not use the my tears ricochet song in the marketing of the film, which clearly has a lot of relevance to how much money the film is going to make - a Taylor Swift song in your previews is going to get people interested and watching.
It will be interesting to see if the lawyers get into the weeds on thing of value. I would argue the PGA credit is not. I would support a petition to look into rescinding her credit but I do not believe the credit is a thing of value for the purpose of extortion. Thinking along the line of this definition https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/
The credit is not really something you can exchange for money. My understanding is it's a matter of prestige. AFAIK it doesn't effect the backend. If it did, then I would reconsider. I thought Blake already had a credit. If Wayfarer and Justin lost money because of it they need to make that argument explicitly. They are suing for extortion so they are the ones who must show they meet the elements.
I would also point out they technically didn't give her the credit. They wrote a letter of support.
The movie rights I believe are a thing of value. It's a contract that can be sold to someone else for money. They would need to make a clear argument about what threats were made and to whom. The idea that they might have done this or that is too speculative. A more classic example of extortion would be "sign over the rights or ill break your legs." IMO they have to argue there was explicitly something done by Lively and co that was like "sign over the rights or we go to the press" whereas the argument I see being made in his complaint is just generally that she was pushing for more power and there was this looming threat in Justin‘s mind that she might go to the press and lie about SH. His complaint would need to be significantly reworked IMO.
But what about at least her a half dozen threats in writing from her lawyers that she would walk if they didn’t do something that she wanted? Those are all documented emails from her legal team clearly stating that she would not return to set. And After shooting was done that she would not participate in marketing. I do not understand how that is not monetary value if they shoot half the movie and Blake doesn’t return - that is a huge cost.
But it's not something of monetary value that Blake received.
Yes, had she walked, it would have cost Wayfarer a ton of money and potentially tanked the movie for good. But that's not extortion, it's a contract breach, which they could turn sue her for. But there's nothing of value she gets there.
And before anyone says "well they couldn't sue her for breach of contract because she didn't sign her contract," this probably isn't true. Once she has substantially performed enough of the contract that Wayfarer was relying on her to finish the movie, she would be beholden to their agreement to make the movie whether she signed or not.
So a legal remedy existed for them if she walked away from the film, but it's not an extortion claims.
IMO, in order to make the extortion claims, they need to rely on her threats to go public with the SH claims only, not her threats to walk away from filming or not to market the movie, both of which would have opened her up to breach of contract claims as well as other legal claims based on the money lost to both Wayfarer and Sony.
But then they still run into the "thing of value" issue. I am not sure if the p.g.a. credit would count. It seems like a stretch to me, both because it doesn't carry monetary value and because Wayfarer didn't give it to her, they just gave her an endorsement.
I don't think the thing of value could be the rights to the sequel even if she explicitly made threats to try and get them. She didn't get them, and there's no "attempted extortion" claim -- you can't bring the claim unless the defendant successfully extorted you.
I get what you’re saying - that makes total sense about the extortion, but if Justin can show all this doesn’t he have a pretty compelling case that he wasn’t retaliating against her, that he knew what she was capable of, and he feared for his career? She took over his movie, then was bashing him in the press. I’m pretty sure Wayfarer didn’t start the fat shaming rumor which is the first thing I heard about the cast unfollowing him before the premiere.
And then Ryan walking around calling him a sexual predator. I get that they don’t have a case for extortion, but it certainly seems they have a compelling case for why he hired the PR firm and just painting to the jury exactly what he was up against here.
Add to that Leslie Sloan running around and telling the press Blake is not the problem. Justin is. The whole cast hates him. And so on.
Legally, I have no idea if any of this matters, but it certainly highlights a very interesting power dynamic – mainly that she had all the power and Justin had very little.
Yes, some (though not all) of this can be presented as part of his defense against the SH and retaliation claims.
This is where I get frustrated with Freedman's approach to this case, even if it may be effective. The problem is that they didn't argue this as a defense to the SH claims. Instead, the filed their own action, dragged in the NYT, and argued for what I view as really unlikely and unsupported claims for defamation, extortion, tortious interference, etc. Like I'm sorry but I find the accusation that Lively "stole" a movie that not only still belongs to Wayfarer but off of which they've made an unbelievable sum of money to be laughable.
I get it, they wanted to get their version of events out quickly (not weighting around for responsive pleadings or trial) and they wanted to change the public perception of the SH claims. That zealous representation and it's allowed. However, Baldoni's lawsuits are borderline frivolous. They are poorly written and the legal argument is junk, when there even is one, which usually they don't bother. They used the lawsuit as a vehicle to get out a bunch of embarrassing texts and emails from Lively and Reynolds and to start building an alternate theory of the case in the public eye. This is a somewhat shady use of civil court to prosecute a case in the public eye, and it's also expensive -- the time spent on Baldoni's claims in a federal court amounts to a LOT of taxpayer dollars to essentially help him with PR problem.
And if you are okay with that, which I assume most Baldoni supporters are, I really don't get the meltdown over the VanZan Doe lawsuit, which is also a somewhat shady use of the civil court system BUT one that did not cost taxpayers a lot of money (the procedural costs of the lawsuit were minimal, a small amount of a judge and clerk's time to agree to the subpoena, which was uncontested by the served party) and is a pretty broadly used practice for obtaining evidence that could help a plaintiff shape a lawsuit to make it more viable.
I just get weary of the dramatic emotion over this case, which is a pretty interesting piece of high profile litigation, by people who clearly have no clue on how litigation works. Like this thread is full of people earnestly debating the merits of claims Baldoni is making with literally no evidence and no real legal premise, but then freaking out about the VanZan subpoena like it's some egregious abuse.
I dip in here now and then for fun, but then get accused of being a Lively shill simply for not lovingly endorsing everything about Baldoni's case, even though I rarely say anything supportive of the substance if Lively's case.
Just exhausting. Some of you are going to be so confused and angry at how this case shakes out because you just don't get how litigation works. Even the ones claiming to be lawyers! I hope you're actually law students, the comments have that vibe. Anyway, good luck.
I’m the lawyer who listened to the PO hearing, and I agree with much of this. I also dislike Freedman and his underhanded tactics. I hadn’t considered Freedman’s cross claims lawsuit as pragmatically similar to or worse than the VanZan suit in terms of waste of judicial resources and I appreciate the point.
I haven’t filed a Doe suit before and am not familiar with them, and I really don’t know if the VanZan suit crosses some ethical line. I just do find it weird that pro-Baldoni people here are very concerned about this Doe suit but basically cheer on Freedman in his various other unethical endeavors such as the Slave Labor contract, filing complaints without supporting facts that comport with the federal rules, the constant press appearances until Liman reminded him they were against the rules, etc.
Anyway, I appreciate your contributions here even if you only stop by occasionally. Your perspective always gives me something new to think about. And I just like hearing someone else go off on Freedman because otherwise I feel like I’m generally the only one in the thread who has a major problem with him. Never mind the pro-Baldoni haters and their various disagreeing comments. And — I understand you don’t necessarily like or agree with a lot of what I say, either, and that’s fine! No problem. I just do appreciate your perspective, fwiw.
Don’t know what this nonsense is, you (or the two of you) are conversing together on this thread every day, usually saying the exact same things.
Actually I believe there is another commenter besides either of us who is generally less pro-Baldoni than most of you but is different from either of us. PP who also dislikes Freedman above is a whole different person. This was clear when a pro-Baldoni person took a sort of roll call ~300 pages ago.
It would be so helpful if the pro-Baldoni people would stop posting delusional stuff about how we are all the same person or whatever. Going forward, if you continue this slop, I may post the same annoying messages about you. It’s infantile, it brings down the tone of the thread, and it wastes space. So stop, please.
Dp not delusional. We are not dumb. Let’s move on. You have a job to do, no?
Haha, what do you mean, “We” are not dumb. You are just the same person responding in here for the Baldoni side. Maybe you and just one other poster.
Do, but there are a lot more posters on the Baldoni side. Easy to tell by the different writing styles, which is also the tell with the Lively posters.
All the pro-Baldoni posts sound and reason exactly the same way. Not saying it's one person,but there is not a panoply of personalities here. It's either several people with the same personality, or one person pretending to be several but with no ability to act out the different parts.
I agree with this!! lol
Righto!
I will say that there is ONE persona that the pro-Baldoni poster adopts of a young, gossip-obsessed non-lawyer and those are always different from the drier pro-Baldoni posts. They always know what Taylor and Travis are up to and manage to insert whatever new insult some content creator has made about Lively’s weight or clothes etc. The pro-Baldoni person gets creative with these gossip obsessed comments so I give her credit for that persona.
Um, personas are actually differently people, genius.
lol. No they are not! Or at least, not necessarily! Wrong again!! (But you’ll never admit it!!)
Dictionary.com for “persona”:
the aspect of someone's character that is presented to or perceived by others.
"her public persona has been sold to millions of women as the ideal"
a role or character adopted by an author, actor, etc. or in a game.
"Bowie burned through one persona after another"
(Note that in both of these examples, the persona belongs to one person. The woman has both a public persona and, presumably, a private persona. David Bowie exhibited multiple personas.
So, so wrong. Sad.
Genius, I meant in reality what you are calling personas are different people. I was not referring to dictionary definitions.
Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why people are saying there’s no monetary value to the PGA credential. Producers get huge backend on movies. It’s actually why it’s really rare for a producer not to have been involved in fundraising and development and they often use a little bit of their own money to have skin in the game.
Blake missed that part of the requirement for the pga credit as she was not brought on until the movie was well developed and getting ready to shoot so she tried to make up for it in the other two phases of the requirements. But I’m pretty sure being a producer means she got backend and that is money out of Wayfair’s pocket so there is monetary value to it.
Also, if the rumors are true that Colleen Hoover had a sexual harassment clause for Justin to develop the sequel, it certainly seems Blake was trying to get chummy with Colleen Hoover, it can certainly be argued that she was trying to get the rights to the second movie which clearly has monetary value.
People waiving off Taylor’s involvement are either being naïve or deliberately obtuse. Blake threatened to not use the my tears ricochet song in the marketing of the film, which clearly has a lot of relevance to how much money the film is going to make - a Taylor Swift song in your previews is going to get people interested and watching.
It will be interesting to see if the lawyers get into the weeds on thing of value. I would argue the PGA credit is not. I would support a petition to look into rescinding her credit but I do not believe the credit is a thing of value for the purpose of extortion. Thinking along the line of this definition https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/
The credit is not really something you can exchange for money. My understanding is it's a matter of prestige. AFAIK it doesn't effect the backend. If it did, then I would reconsider. I thought Blake already had a credit. If Wayfarer and Justin lost money because of it they need to make that argument explicitly. They are suing for extortion so they are the ones who must show they meet the elements.
I would also point out they technically didn't give her the credit. They wrote a letter of support.
The movie rights I believe are a thing of value. It's a contract that can be sold to someone else for money. They would need to make a clear argument about what threats were made and to whom. The idea that they might have done this or that is too speculative. A more classic example of extortion would be "sign over the rights or ill break your legs." IMO they have to argue there was explicitly something done by Lively and co that was like "sign over the rights or we go to the press" whereas the argument I see being made in his complaint is just generally that she was pushing for more power and there was this looming threat in Justin‘s mind that she might go to the press and lie about SH. His complaint would need to be significantly reworked IMO.
But what about at least her a half dozen threats in writing from her lawyers that she would walk if they didn’t do something that she wanted? Those are all documented emails from her legal team clearly stating that she would not return to set. And After shooting was done that she would not participate in marketing. I do not understand how that is not monetary value if they shoot half the movie and Blake doesn’t return - that is a huge cost.
But it's not something of monetary value that Blake received.
Yes, had she walked, it would have cost Wayfarer a ton of money and potentially tanked the movie for good. But that's not extortion, it's a contract breach, which they could turn sue her for. But there's nothing of value she gets there.
And before anyone says "well they couldn't sue her for breach of contract because she didn't sign her contract," this probably isn't true. Once she has substantially performed enough of the contract that Wayfarer was relying on her to finish the movie, she would be beholden to their agreement to make the movie whether she signed or not.
So a legal remedy existed for them if she walked away from the film, but it's not an extortion claims.
IMO, in order to make the extortion claims, they need to rely on her threats to go public with the SH claims only, not her threats to walk away from filming or not to market the movie, both of which would have opened her up to breach of contract claims as well as other legal claims based on the money lost to both Wayfarer and Sony.
But then they still run into the "thing of value" issue. I am not sure if the p.g.a. credit would count. It seems like a stretch to me, both because it doesn't carry monetary value and because Wayfarer didn't give it to her, they just gave her an endorsement.
I don't think the thing of value could be the rights to the sequel even if she explicitly made threats to try and get them. She didn't get them, and there's no "attempted extortion" claim -- you can't bring the claim unless the defendant successfully extorted you.
I get what you’re saying - that makes total sense about the extortion, but if Justin can show all this doesn’t he have a pretty compelling case that he wasn’t retaliating against her, that he knew what she was capable of, and he feared for his career? She took over his movie, then was bashing him in the press. I’m pretty sure Wayfarer didn’t start the fat shaming rumor which is the first thing I heard about the cast unfollowing him before the premiere.
And then Ryan walking around calling him a sexual predator. I get that they don’t have a case for extortion, but it certainly seems they have a compelling case for why he hired the PR firm and just painting to the jury exactly what he was up against here.
Add to that Leslie Sloan running around and telling the press Blake is not the problem. Justin is. The whole cast hates him. And so on.
Legally, I have no idea if any of this matters, but it certainly highlights a very interesting power dynamic – mainly that she had all the power and Justin had very little.
Yes, some (though not all) of this can be presented as part of his defense against the SH and retaliation claims.
This is where I get frustrated with Freedman's approach to this case, even if it may be effective. The problem is that they didn't argue this as a defense to the SH claims. Instead, the filed their own action, dragged in the NYT, and argued for what I view as really unlikely and unsupported claims for defamation, extortion, tortious interference, etc. Like I'm sorry but I find the accusation that Lively "stole" a movie that not only still belongs to Wayfarer but off of which they've made an unbelievable sum of money to be laughable.
I get it, they wanted to get their version of events out quickly (not weighting around for responsive pleadings or trial) and they wanted to change the public perception of the SH claims. That zealous representation and it's allowed. However, Baldoni's lawsuits are borderline frivolous. They are poorly written and the legal argument is junk, when there even is one, which usually they don't bother. They used the lawsuit as a vehicle to get out a bunch of embarrassing texts and emails from Lively and Reynolds and to start building an alternate theory of the case in the public eye. This is a somewhat shady use of civil court to prosecute a case in the public eye, and it's also expensive -- the time spent on Baldoni's claims in a federal court amounts to a LOT of taxpayer dollars to essentially help him with PR problem.
And if you are okay with that, which I assume most Baldoni supporters are, I really don't get the meltdown over the VanZan Doe lawsuit, which is also a somewhat shady use of the civil court system BUT one that did not cost taxpayers a lot of money (the procedural costs of the lawsuit were minimal, a small amount of a judge and clerk's time to agree to the subpoena, which was uncontested by the served party) and is a pretty broadly used practice for obtaining evidence that could help a plaintiff shape a lawsuit to make it more viable.
I just get weary of the dramatic emotion over this case, which is a pretty interesting piece of high profile litigation, by people who clearly have no clue on how litigation works. Like this thread is full of people earnestly debating the merits of claims Baldoni is making with literally no evidence and no real legal premise, but then freaking out about the VanZan subpoena like it's some egregious abuse.
I dip in here now and then for fun, but then get accused of being a Lively shill simply for not lovingly endorsing everything about Baldoni's case, even though I rarely say anything supportive of the substance if Lively's case.
Just exhausting. Some of you are going to be so confused and angry at how this case shakes out because you just don't get how litigation works. Even the ones claiming to be lawyers! I hope you're actually law students, the comments have that vibe. Anyway, good luck.
I’m the lawyer who listened to the PO hearing, and I agree with much of this. I also dislike Freedman and his underhanded tactics. I hadn’t considered Freedman’s cross claims lawsuit as pragmatically similar to or worse than the VanZan suit in terms of waste of judicial resources and I appreciate the point.
I haven’t filed a Doe suit before and am not familiar with them, and I really don’t know if the VanZan suit crosses some ethical line. I just do find it weird that pro-Baldoni people here are very concerned about this Doe suit but basically cheer on Freedman in his various other unethical endeavors such as the Slave Labor contract, filing complaints without supporting facts that comport with the federal rules, the constant press appearances until Liman reminded him they were against the rules, etc.
Anyway, I appreciate your contributions here even if you only stop by occasionally. Your perspective always gives me something new to think about. And I just like hearing someone else go off on Freedman because otherwise I feel like I’m generally the only one in the thread who has a major problem with him. Never mind the pro-Baldoni haters and their various disagreeing comments. And — I understand you don’t necessarily like or agree with a lot of what I say, either, and that’s fine! No problem. I just do appreciate your perspective, fwiw.
Don’t know what this nonsense is, you (or the two of you) are conversing together on this thread every day, usually saying the exact same things.
Actually I believe there is another commenter besides either of us who is generally less pro-Baldoni than most of you but is different from either of us. PP who also dislikes Freedman above is a whole different person. This was clear when a pro-Baldoni person took a sort of roll call ~300 pages ago.
It would be so helpful if the pro-Baldoni people would stop posting delusional stuff about how we are all the same person or whatever. Going forward, if you continue this slop, I may post the same annoying messages about you. It’s infantile, it brings down the tone of the thread, and it wastes space. So stop, please.
Dp not delusional. We are not dumb. Let’s move on. You have a job to do, no?
Haha, what do you mean, “We” are not dumb. You are just the same person responding in here for the Baldoni side. Maybe you and just one other poster.
Do, but there are a lot more posters on the Baldoni side. Easy to tell by the different writing styles, which is also the tell with the Lively posters.
All the pro-Baldoni posts sound and reason exactly the same way. Not saying it's one person,but there is not a panoply of personalities here. It's either several people with the same personality, or one person pretending to be several but with no ability to act out the different parts.
I agree with this!! lol
Righto!
I will say that there is ONE persona that the pro-Baldoni poster adopts of a young, gossip-obsessed non-lawyer and those are always different from the drier pro-Baldoni posts. They always know what Taylor and Travis are up to and manage to insert whatever new insult some content creator has made about Lively’s weight or clothes etc. The pro-Baldoni person gets creative with these gossip obsessed comments so I give her credit for that persona.
Um, personas are actually differently people, genius.
lol. No they are not! Or at least, not necessarily! Wrong again!! (But you’ll never admit it!!)
Dictionary.com for “persona”:
the aspect of someone's character that is presented to or perceived by others.
"her public persona has been sold to millions of women as the ideal"
a role or character adopted by an author, actor, etc. or in a game.
"Bowie burned through one persona after another"
(Note that in both of these examples, the persona belongs to one person. The woman has both a public persona and, presumably, a private persona. David Bowie exhibited multiple personas.
So, so wrong. Sad.
Genius, I meant in reality what you are calling personas are different people. I was not referring to dictionary definitions.
And now back to subpoena gate.
You didn’t say “the personas are different people.” You said “personas are different people.”
It doesn’t matter, though, either way you are wrong here.
Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why people are saying there’s no monetary value to the PGA credential. Producers get huge backend on movies. It’s actually why it’s really rare for a producer not to have been involved in fundraising and development and they often use a little bit of their own money to have skin in the game.
Blake missed that part of the requirement for the pga credit as she was not brought on until the movie was well developed and getting ready to shoot so she tried to make up for it in the other two phases of the requirements. But I’m pretty sure being a producer means she got backend and that is money out of Wayfair’s pocket so there is monetary value to it.
Also, if the rumors are true that Colleen Hoover had a sexual harassment clause for Justin to develop the sequel, it certainly seems Blake was trying to get chummy with Colleen Hoover, it can certainly be argued that she was trying to get the rights to the second movie which clearly has monetary value.
People waiving off Taylor’s involvement are either being naïve or deliberately obtuse. Blake threatened to not use the my tears ricochet song in the marketing of the film, which clearly has a lot of relevance to how much money the film is going to make - a Taylor Swift song in your previews is going to get people interested and watching.
It will be interesting to see if the lawyers get into the weeds on thing of value. I would argue the PGA credit is not. I would support a petition to look into rescinding her credit but I do not believe the credit is a thing of value for the purpose of extortion. Thinking along the line of this definition https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/
The credit is not really something you can exchange for money. My understanding is it's a matter of prestige. AFAIK it doesn't effect the backend. If it did, then I would reconsider. I thought Blake already had a credit. If Wayfarer and Justin lost money because of it they need to make that argument explicitly. They are suing for extortion so they are the ones who must show they meet the elements.
I would also point out they technically didn't give her the credit. They wrote a letter of support.
The movie rights I believe are a thing of value. It's a contract that can be sold to someone else for money. They would need to make a clear argument about what threats were made and to whom. The idea that they might have done this or that is too speculative. A more classic example of extortion would be "sign over the rights or ill break your legs." IMO they have to argue there was explicitly something done by Lively and co that was like "sign over the rights or we go to the press" whereas the argument I see being made in his complaint is just generally that she was pushing for more power and there was this looming threat in Justin‘s mind that she might go to the press and lie about SH. His complaint would need to be significantly reworked IMO.
But what about at least her a half dozen threats in writing from her lawyers that she would walk if they didn’t do something that she wanted? Those are all documented emails from her legal team clearly stating that she would not return to set. And After shooting was done that she would not participate in marketing. I do not understand how that is not monetary value if they shoot half the movie and Blake doesn’t return - that is a huge cost.
But it's not something of monetary value that Blake received.
Yes, had she walked, it would have cost Wayfarer a ton of money and potentially tanked the movie for good. But that's not extortion, it's a contract breach, which they could turn sue her for. But there's nothing of value she gets there.
And before anyone says "well they couldn't sue her for breach of contract because she didn't sign her contract," this probably isn't true. Once she has substantially performed enough of the contract that Wayfarer was relying on her to finish the movie, she would be beholden to their agreement to make the movie whether she signed or not.
So a legal remedy existed for them if she walked away from the film, but it's not an extortion claims.
IMO, in order to make the extortion claims, they need to rely on her threats to go public with the SH claims only, not her threats to walk away from filming or not to market the movie, both of which would have opened her up to breach of contract claims as well as other legal claims based on the money lost to both Wayfarer and Sony.
But then they still run into the "thing of value" issue. I am not sure if the p.g.a. credit would count. It seems like a stretch to me, both because it doesn't carry monetary value and because Wayfarer didn't give it to her, they just gave her an endorsement.
I don't think the thing of value could be the rights to the sequel even if she explicitly made threats to try and get them. She didn't get them, and there's no "attempted extortion" claim -- you can't bring the claim unless the defendant successfully extorted you.
I get what you’re saying - that makes total sense about the extortion, but if Justin can show all this doesn’t he have a pretty compelling case that he wasn’t retaliating against her, that he knew what she was capable of, and he feared for his career? She took over his movie, then was bashing him in the press. I’m pretty sure Wayfarer didn’t start the fat shaming rumor which is the first thing I heard about the cast unfollowing him before the premiere.
And then Ryan walking around calling him a sexual predator. I get that they don’t have a case for extortion, but it certainly seems they have a compelling case for why he hired the PR firm and just painting to the jury exactly what he was up against here.
Add to that Leslie Sloan running around and telling the press Blake is not the problem. Justin is. The whole cast hates him. And so on.
Legally, I have no idea if any of this matters, but it certainly highlights a very interesting power dynamic – mainly that she had all the power and Justin had very little.
Yes, some (though not all) of this can be presented as part of his defense against the SH and retaliation claims.
This is where I get frustrated with Freedman's approach to this case, even if it may be effective. The problem is that they didn't argue this as a defense to the SH claims. Instead, the filed their own action, dragged in the NYT, and argued for what I view as really unlikely and unsupported claims for defamation, extortion, tortious interference, etc. Like I'm sorry but I find the accusation that Lively "stole" a movie that not only still belongs to Wayfarer but off of which they've made an unbelievable sum of money to be laughable.
I get it, they wanted to get their version of events out quickly (not weighting around for responsive pleadings or trial) and they wanted to change the public perception of the SH claims. That zealous representation and it's allowed. However, Baldoni's lawsuits are borderline frivolous. They are poorly written and the legal argument is junk, when there even is one, which usually they don't bother. They used the lawsuit as a vehicle to get out a bunch of embarrassing texts and emails from Lively and Reynolds and to start building an alternate theory of the case in the public eye. This is a somewhat shady use of civil court to prosecute a case in the public eye, and it's also expensive -- the time spent on Baldoni's claims in a federal court amounts to a LOT of taxpayer dollars to essentially help him with PR problem.
And if you are okay with that, which I assume most Baldoni supporters are, I really don't get the meltdown over the VanZan Doe lawsuit, which is also a somewhat shady use of the civil court system BUT one that did not cost taxpayers a lot of money (the procedural costs of the lawsuit were minimal, a small amount of a judge and clerk's time to agree to the subpoena, which was uncontested by the served party) and is a pretty broadly used practice for obtaining evidence that could help a plaintiff shape a lawsuit to make it more viable.
I just get weary of the dramatic emotion over this case, which is a pretty interesting piece of high profile litigation, by people who clearly have no clue on how litigation works. Like this thread is full of people earnestly debating the merits of claims Baldoni is making with literally no evidence and no real legal premise, but then freaking out about the VanZan subpoena like it's some egregious abuse.
I dip in here now and then for fun, but then get accused of being a Lively shill simply for not lovingly endorsing everything about Baldoni's case, even though I rarely say anything supportive of the substance if Lively's case.
Just exhausting. Some of you are going to be so confused and angry at how this case shakes out because you just don't get how litigation works. Even the ones claiming to be lawyers! I hope you're actually law students, the comments have that vibe. Anyway, good luck.
I’m the lawyer who listened to the PO hearing, and I agree with much of this. I also dislike Freedman and his underhanded tactics. I hadn’t considered Freedman’s cross claims lawsuit as pragmatically similar to or worse than the VanZan suit in terms of waste of judicial resources and I appreciate the point.
I haven’t filed a Doe suit before and am not familiar with them, and I really don’t know if the VanZan suit crosses some ethical line. I just do find it weird that pro-Baldoni people here are very concerned about this Doe suit but basically cheer on Freedman in his various other unethical endeavors such as the Slave Labor contract, filing complaints without supporting facts that comport with the federal rules, the constant press appearances until Liman reminded him they were against the rules, etc.
Anyway, I appreciate your contributions here even if you only stop by occasionally. Your perspective always gives me something new to think about. And I just like hearing someone else go off on Freedman because otherwise I feel like I’m generally the only one in the thread who has a major problem with him. Never mind the pro-Baldoni haters and their various disagreeing comments. And — I understand you don’t necessarily like or agree with a lot of what I say, either, and that’s fine! No problem. I just do appreciate your perspective, fwiw.
Don’t know what this nonsense is, you (or the two of you) are conversing together on this thread every day, usually saying the exact same things.
Actually I believe there is another commenter besides either of us who is generally less pro-Baldoni than most of you but is different from either of us. PP who also dislikes Freedman above is a whole different person. This was clear when a pro-Baldoni person took a sort of roll call ~300 pages ago.
It would be so helpful if the pro-Baldoni people would stop posting delusional stuff about how we are all the same person or whatever. Going forward, if you continue this slop, I may post the same annoying messages about you. It’s infantile, it brings down the tone of the thread, and it wastes space. So stop, please.
Dp not delusional. We are not dumb. Let’s move on. You have a job to do, no?
Haha, what do you mean, “We” are not dumb. You are just the same person responding in here for the Baldoni side. Maybe you and just one other poster.
Do, but there are a lot more posters on the Baldoni side. Easy to tell by the different writing styles, which is also the tell with the Lively posters.
All the pro-Baldoni posts sound and reason exactly the same way. Not saying it's one person,but there is not a panoply of personalities here. It's either several people with the same personality, or one person pretending to be several but with no ability to act out the different parts.
I agree with this!! lol
Righto!
I will say that there is ONE persona that the pro-Baldoni poster adopts of a young, gossip-obsessed non-lawyer and those are always different from the drier pro-Baldoni posts. They always know what Taylor and Travis are up to and manage to insert whatever new insult some content creator has made about Lively’s weight or clothes etc. The pro-Baldoni person gets creative with these gossip obsessed comments so I give her credit for that persona.
Um, personas are actually differently people, genius.
lol. No they are not! Or at least, not necessarily! Wrong again!! (But you’ll never admit it!!)
Dictionary.com for “persona”:
the aspect of someone's character that is presented to or perceived by others.
"her public persona has been sold to millions of women as the ideal"
a role or character adopted by an author, actor, etc. or in a game.
"Bowie burned through one persona after another"
(Note that in both of these examples, the persona belongs to one person. The woman has both a public persona and, presumably, a private persona. David Bowie exhibited multiple personas.
So, so wrong. Sad.
I’m always so surprised that these conversations about who’s posting get more engagement than conversations on the issues. I guess people here are just really shallow and have no depth. This is where I get bored.
Anonymous wrote:I’m confused as to why people are saying there’s no monetary value to the PGA credential. Producers get huge backend on movies. It’s actually why it’s really rare for a producer not to have been involved in fundraising and development and they often use a little bit of their own money to have skin in the game.
Blake missed that part of the requirement for the pga credit as she was not brought on until the movie was well developed and getting ready to shoot so she tried to make up for it in the other two phases of the requirements. But I’m pretty sure being a producer means she got backend and that is money out of Wayfair’s pocket so there is monetary value to it.
Also, if the rumors are true that Colleen Hoover had a sexual harassment clause for Justin to develop the sequel, it certainly seems Blake was trying to get chummy with Colleen Hoover, it can certainly be argued that she was trying to get the rights to the second movie which clearly has monetary value.
People waiving off Taylor’s involvement are either being naïve or deliberately obtuse. Blake threatened to not use the my tears ricochet song in the marketing of the film, which clearly has a lot of relevance to how much money the film is going to make - a Taylor Swift song in your previews is going to get people interested and watching.
It will be interesting to see if the lawyers get into the weeds on thing of value. I would argue the PGA credit is not. I would support a petition to look into rescinding her credit but I do not believe the credit is a thing of value for the purpose of extortion. Thinking along the line of this definition https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/
The credit is not really something you can exchange for money. My understanding is it's a matter of prestige. AFAIK it doesn't effect the backend. If it did, then I would reconsider. I thought Blake already had a credit. If Wayfarer and Justin lost money because of it they need to make that argument explicitly. They are suing for extortion so they are the ones who must show they meet the elements.
I would also point out they technically didn't give her the credit. They wrote a letter of support.
The movie rights I believe are a thing of value. It's a contract that can be sold to someone else for money. They would need to make a clear argument about what threats were made and to whom. The idea that they might have done this or that is too speculative. A more classic example of extortion would be "sign over the rights or ill break your legs." IMO they have to argue there was explicitly something done by Lively and co that was like "sign over the rights or we go to the press" whereas the argument I see being made in his complaint is just generally that she was pushing for more power and there was this looming threat in Justin‘s mind that she might go to the press and lie about SH. His complaint would need to be significantly reworked IMO.
But what about at least her a half dozen threats in writing from her lawyers that she would walk if they didn’t do something that she wanted? Those are all documented emails from her legal team clearly stating that she would not return to set. And After shooting was done that she would not participate in marketing. I do not understand how that is not monetary value if they shoot half the movie and Blake doesn’t return - that is a huge cost.
But it's not something of monetary value that Blake received.
Yes, had she walked, it would have cost Wayfarer a ton of money and potentially tanked the movie for good. But that's not extortion, it's a contract breach, which they could turn sue her for. But there's nothing of value she gets there.
And before anyone says "well they couldn't sue her for breach of contract because she didn't sign her contract," this probably isn't true. Once she has substantially performed enough of the contract that Wayfarer was relying on her to finish the movie, she would be beholden to their agreement to make the movie whether she signed or not.
So a legal remedy existed for them if she walked away from the film, but it's not an extortion claims.
IMO, in order to make the extortion claims, they need to rely on her threats to go public with the SH claims only, not her threats to walk away from filming or not to market the movie, both of which would have opened her up to breach of contract claims as well as other legal claims based on the money lost to both Wayfarer and Sony.
But then they still run into the "thing of value" issue. I am not sure if the p.g.a. credit would count. It seems like a stretch to me, both because it doesn't carry monetary value and because Wayfarer didn't give it to her, they just gave her an endorsement.
I don't think the thing of value could be the rights to the sequel even if she explicitly made threats to try and get them. She didn't get them, and there's no "attempted extortion" claim -- you can't bring the claim unless the defendant successfully extorted you.
I get what you’re saying - that makes total sense about the extortion, but if Justin can show all this doesn’t he have a pretty compelling case that he wasn’t retaliating against her, that he knew what she was capable of, and he feared for his career? She took over his movie, then was bashing him in the press. I’m pretty sure Wayfarer didn’t start the fat shaming rumor which is the first thing I heard about the cast unfollowing him before the premiere.
And then Ryan walking around calling him a sexual predator. I get that they don’t have a case for extortion, but it certainly seems they have a compelling case for why he hired the PR firm and just painting to the jury exactly what he was up against here.
Add to that Leslie Sloan running around and telling the press Blake is not the problem. Justin is. The whole cast hates him. And so on.
Legally, I have no idea if any of this matters, but it certainly highlights a very interesting power dynamic – mainly that she had all the power and Justin had very little.
Yes, some (though not all) of this can be presented as part of his defense against the SH and retaliation claims.
This is where I get frustrated with Freedman's approach to this case, even if it may be effective. The problem is that they didn't argue this as a defense to the SH claims. Instead, the filed their own action, dragged in the NYT, and argued for what I view as really unlikely and unsupported claims for defamation, extortion, tortious interference, etc. Like I'm sorry but I find the accusation that Lively "stole" a movie that not only still belongs to Wayfarer but off of which they've made an unbelievable sum of money to be laughable.
I get it, they wanted to get their version of events out quickly (not weighting around for responsive pleadings or trial) and they wanted to change the public perception of the SH claims. That zealous representation and it's allowed. However, Baldoni's lawsuits are borderline frivolous. They are poorly written and the legal argument is junk, when there even is one, which usually they don't bother. They used the lawsuit as a vehicle to get out a bunch of embarrassing texts and emails from Lively and Reynolds and to start building an alternate theory of the case in the public eye. This is a somewhat shady use of civil court to prosecute a case in the public eye, and it's also expensive -- the time spent on Baldoni's claims in a federal court amounts to a LOT of taxpayer dollars to essentially help him with PR problem.
And if you are okay with that, which I assume most Baldoni supporters are, I really don't get the meltdown over the VanZan Doe lawsuit, which is also a somewhat shady use of the civil court system BUT one that did not cost taxpayers a lot of money (the procedural costs of the lawsuit were minimal, a small amount of a judge and clerk's time to agree to the subpoena, which was uncontested by the served party) and is a pretty broadly used practice for obtaining evidence that could help a plaintiff shape a lawsuit to make it more viable.
I just get weary of the dramatic emotion over this case, which is a pretty interesting piece of high profile litigation, by people who clearly have no clue on how litigation works. Like this thread is full of people earnestly debating the merits of claims Baldoni is making with literally no evidence and no real legal premise, but then freaking out about the VanZan subpoena like it's some egregious abuse.
I dip in here now and then for fun, but then get accused of being a Lively shill simply for not lovingly endorsing everything about Baldoni's case, even though I rarely say anything supportive of the substance if Lively's case.
Just exhausting. Some of you are going to be so confused and angry at how this case shakes out because you just don't get how litigation works. Even the ones claiming to be lawyers! I hope you're actually law students, the comments have that vibe. Anyway, good luck.
I’m the lawyer who listened to the PO hearing, and I agree with much of this. I also dislike Freedman and his underhanded tactics. I hadn’t considered Freedman’s cross claims lawsuit as pragmatically similar to or worse than the VanZan suit in terms of waste of judicial resources and I appreciate the point.
I haven’t filed a Doe suit before and am not familiar with them, and I really don’t know if the VanZan suit crosses some ethical line. I just do find it weird that pro-Baldoni people here are very concerned about this Doe suit but basically cheer on Freedman in his various other unethical endeavors such as the Slave Labor contract, filing complaints without supporting facts that comport with the federal rules, the constant press appearances until Liman reminded him they were against the rules, etc.
Anyway, I appreciate your contributions here even if you only stop by occasionally. Your perspective always gives me something new to think about. And I just like hearing someone else go off on Freedman because otherwise I feel like I’m generally the only one in the thread who has a major problem with him. Never mind the pro-Baldoni haters and their various disagreeing comments. And — I understand you don’t necessarily like or agree with a lot of what I say, either, and that’s fine! No problem. I just do appreciate your perspective, fwiw.
Don’t know what this nonsense is, you (or the two of you) are conversing together on this thread every day, usually saying the exact same things.
Baldoni's supporters also converse with each other every day on here and say similar things and agree with each other, because this is a message board. Not sure why it's so noteworthy that a handful of Lively supporters post here.
Not exactly accurate. There are a number of us on here who did not come into this as supporters of either side, but the facts have led us in a certain direction. You always assume I’m pro JB but I don’t actually care about either of them, only the interesting legal issues presented.
On the other hand, you’re usually very pro Blake, hate Freedman and you occasionally claim to not like Blake to distract people, but your posts and those of your coordinated twin are fairly obvious.
Exactly. Also seems like pro-JB, while staunch in their support, are more willing to raise issues about these legal cases. Pro-BL people genuinely do not budge no matter what. Ever. For example, I was the one who raised the point that while I think what the NYTimes was dirty, I wonder if they should necessarily be singled out, since Blake would have leaked the complaint to other outlets. While they would have reported on it on a more straightforward way, JB's reputation would've taken a ding.
I saw you make that claim earlier and didn’t bother to respond because that’s not how damages for purposes of defamation law works. ‘Oh someone else would have probably libeled him, so it’s okay we did…’
My sense is that the pro BL people on here occasionally step back from their arguments because they are forced to admit how weak they are.
And I’ll say again, a number of us are not pro anyone. We are just following the issues
DP. I differ from you because I don't think NYT defamed Baldoni. I think they basically acted as Lively's press agent and narrated what was in the CRD complaint (a fair report). If there's defamation it's on Lively's part, so I get that PP's point. Any media outlet could have published the CRD and phrased it as "Lively alleged this and that, the texts say this and that" and it would have the same effect. I guess the issue here is did NYT claiming to have reviewed and investigated it give it more credibility... I think not, but I know others here do think that gives them liability. NYT argues that whatever it added that wasn't straight from the complaint was either mitigating information that helps Baldoni or just an opinion or re-categorization of what was alleged in the CRD ("retaliatory campaign" being rephrased as "smear campaign"). I tend to agree with NYT here but we'll see what Liman will do.
It may not matter in the NYT case, but Bryan Freedman makes it pretty clear in his recent filing about the Vanzan lawsuit that he believes Jones gave BL the texts but then the NYT wouldn’t accept them without a subpoena so BL went back and did the sham lawsuit. If that’s true, it looks even shadier for the NYT. Did they essentially coach BL on what they would need to print the story and if so, is that still just “fair reporting”? We may never know b/c discovery is stayed on the NYT case.
I think the judge can have an evidentiary hearing on the sham litigation issue and include Twohey. Stays can be lifted by the Court on the basis of new evidence.
Anonymous wrote:Interestingly, the subpoena still has not been produced. Get the popcorn, because this will be addressed by the Court.
Why would Freedman mention this in a letter rather than file a motion to compel?
DP - I think because he’s using it in his legal arguments now and citing it as needed. Most recently he cited it as the reason he shouldn’t have to answer questions about Baldoni’s neurodivergence and why the crime fraud exception should apply to the Jones case.
On the neurodivergence stuff, the argument is Blake’s lawyers only know Justin’s private medical information because of the sham lawsuit and subpoena so they shouldn’t be able to use it to establish the basis for further discovery on that topic. Additionally, the texts on Justin’s neurodivergence were outside of the scope of what the judge allowed when Blake’s lawyers filed that overbroad subpoena for phone records a few months ago asking for 2.5 years of data, so there’s no way they would’ve gotten that information through a subpoena in the current case.
On the crime fraud stuff, they’re arguing they should be able to pierce through Jones’ attorney client privilege and get documents from the security company that extracted the texts from Jen Abel’s phone. The basis for this is they’re arguing attorney client privilege doesn’t apply if your lawyer helps you commit a crime, which is what they’re alleging was the case with the phone. Sounds like the judge will almost certainly have to call an evidentiary hearing on this one, so I imagine Freedman is betting the judge will force them to produce the hearing at that time.
Anonymous wrote:Interestingly, the subpoena still has not been produced. Get the popcorn, because this will be addressed by the Court.
Why would Freedman mention this in a letter rather than file a motion to compel?
DP - I think because he’s using it in his legal arguments now and citing it as needed. Most recently he cited it as the reason he shouldn’t have to answer questions about Baldoni’s neurodivergence and why the crime fraud exception should apply to the Jones case.
On the neurodivergence stuff, the argument is Blake’s lawyers only know Justin’s private medical information because of the sham lawsuit and subpoena so they shouldn’t be able to use it to establish the basis for further discovery on that topic. Additionally, the texts on Justin’s neurodivergence were outside of the scope of what the judge allowed when Blake’s lawyers filed that overbroad subpoena for phone records a few months ago asking for 2.5 years of data, so there’s no way they would’ve gotten that information through a subpoena in the current case.
On the crime fraud stuff, they’re arguing they should be able to pierce through Jones’ attorney client privilege and get documents from the security company that extracted the texts from Jen Abel’s phone. The basis for this is they’re arguing attorney client privilege doesn’t apply if your lawyer helps you commit a crime, which is what they’re alleging was the case with the phone. Sounds like the judge will almost certainly have to call an evidentiary hearing on this one, so I imagine Freedman is betting the judge will force them to produce the hearing at that time.
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