Why are the top elementary schools in NW better?

[Anonymous]

This is not a facetious question. I would like to understand what the structural reasons are why the handful of schools in NW are considered desirable and there appears so little elsewhere that is (looking at lotteries, OOB spaces available, posts on DCUM).

My child is likely attending DCPS next year -- but not one of the "best" schools usually mentioned here -- and I'm curious as to what the difference is between those schools and ours (and also, trying to figure out what the factors would be for our school potentially becoming one of those on that "top list.")

I understand the top NW schools have very involved PTAs that raise money -- but how much money are we really talking about here? Is it enough to make the facilities drastically better? To hire more teachers and bring down class sizes? To offer enrichment classes like music or art that aren't offered elsewhere?

Do the top NW schools have ostensibly better teachers or principals? And if so, how does that happen? (Seriously, I do not know anything about the hiring process for DCPS)

Do the top NW schools have some greater ability to let go of a poor-performing teacher?

Do the top NW schools have better facilities? If so, how does that happen? Do NW parents somehow know how to "work the system" better so their schools get maintained where others do not? I can't figure out how the budgeting would not be done in an equitable manner across all schools.

I understand the basic fact of demographics and that the NW areas are higher-income and so the kids are more likely to come to school better prepared having had more advantages at home and that this might translate into higher tests scores. But still, if a school building is crumbling and a system is unable to recruit the best talent due to its poor reputation or uncompetitive salaries and the budget does not permit enrichment or low class sizes or sufficient teacher's aides for ESL or special ed kids or purchase of needed books and materials, it's unclear to me that demographics alone would turn the school into a "desirable" school. And so it's unclear to me how this handful of schools is seemingly immune from the systemic problems of DCPS.

[Anonymous]

To answer ....I understand the top NW schools have very involved PTAs that raise money -- but how much money are we really talking about here? Is it enough to make the facilities drastically better? To hire more teachers and bring down class sizes? To offer enrichment classes like music or art that aren't offered elsewhere? ....

Yes. There is a recommended annual donation per child. Let's pretend it is $500 per child and 3/4 of the people actually make that amount of a donation and that the school has 300 students - this starts the PTA with over $100K - each year (note: my annual donation and school size are very conservative - I have no idea what actual participation is). In addition to the annual donation, there are fundraisers that are on par with some of the private schools.

[Anonymous]

Also, I'm guessing that if parents are very involved and vocal about bad teachers, bad teachers are not interested in teaching there. If I were a lazy, clock-punching teacher, I'd try to get a job in the school with a bunch of poor kids with single mothers working two jobs. Those parents don't have time to complain (and no one listens anyway), so I could sit on my lazy *ss and show videos and hand out make work "worksheets". At the northwest school the parents would be in my face all day long.

[Anonymous]

The money that gets raised does makes a big difference. PTA's at NW schools raise hundreds of thousands of dollars. You can look it up on the 990s on guidestar. You combine the amounts of money raised, not to mention the pro-bono help that comes with the professional jobs these parents have, with saavy a principal (who attracts the best teachers), parents that are willing to roll up their sleeves to solve problems, and a pool of kids that have the distinct advantages you describe...well then there will be differences. The fact is though that this scenario exists in many urban school districts across the country.

I think there is also a catch 22 with the budgeting - and someone out there who really knows can chime in - but each school budget is based on the number of students enrolled. So if your school is popular and overenrolled well....then there is more funding there. However, if a prinicipal overestimates how many students are expected to enroll in a given year, this can completely mess up the budget and they may end up having to make staffing or other changes to fill the gap. As far as facilities go - if your PTA is raising hundreds of thousands then this can give you the $ you need to make major improvements. The only way to make other schools better is for neighborhood parents to get in there and roll up their sleeves - its really the only way for other schools to turn the corner.

NW schools are not completely immune to the systemic problems of DCPS - just better able to mitigate those systemic problems, because of all of the advantages listed above.

[Anonymous]

Also, Fenty has been sure that DCPS dollars have gone into NW schools. New playgrounds at Murch, Eaton, Hearst. Building additions / major renovations at Janney, Stoddert, Deal, Hardy, Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Serious question -- can PTAs really hire "extra teachers" with these hundreds of thousands? Actual homeroom teachers? So that, for example: if Murch has about 100 second graders scheduled to attend, and this would ordinarily be 4 classes of 25 kids each ... can the Murch HSA together with the principal decide to spend $60K of the annual take, 'buy' a homeroom teacher, and create 5 classes of 20 kids each?

I could've sworn that this wasn't allowed, perhaps by a court ruling a few years back.

[Anonymous]

The Mann PTA raised more than $400,000 in the 2007-08 school year and spent $260,000 on additional teachers in science, art, music, math, and PE as well as classroom aides; nearly $50,000 on supplies; and $4,000 on grants to staff for professional development. Familes made direct donations of $1,000 per child on average; additional revenue came from the auction and other fundraising activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question -- can PTAs really hire "extra teachers" with these hundreds of thousands? Actual homeroom teachers? So that, for example: if Murch has about 100 second graders scheduled to attend, and this would ordinarily be 4 classes of 25 kids each ... can the Murch HSA together with the principal decide to spend $60K of the annual take, 'buy' a homeroom teacher, and create 5 classes of 20 kids each?

I could've sworn that this wasn't allowed, perhaps by a court ruling a few years back.

I don't think the scenario you describe is allowed but HSA money does "buy" specials teachers for sure. In fact, if my HSA wanted to "buy" another homeroom teacher I would be upset about that DCPS should AT LEAST cover the regular teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, Fenty has been sure that DCPS dollars have gone into NW schools. New playgrounds at Murch, Eaton, Hearst. Building additions / major renovations at Janney, Stoddert, Deal, Hardy, Wilson.

A lot of this stuff was in the works before Fenty. In particular the renovations at Deal.

[Anonymous]

does anyone else think the practice of allowing schools to fundraise for their own PTAs should be discontinued? it's just so patently unfair. everyone should donate into the same system-wide PTA pot.

won't happen in a zillion years, of course, but that is the way it should be.

[Anonymous]

Renovations at Deal, Hardy, Wilson were in the works before Fenty. Hardy was almost done when Fenty was elected!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:does anyone else think the practice of allowing schools to fundraise for their own PTAs should be discontinued? it's just so patently unfair. everyone should donate into the same system-wide PTA pot.

won't happen in a zillion years, of course, but that is the way it should be.

No.

[Anonymous]

Just a big old "yeah" on the fundraising. These schools raise $250,000 to $500,000 each year. That's a nice addition to a $4 million dollar operation budget.

Parents at these schools have power and know how to effectively wield their influence, which is helpful as well.

My children attend a Title I school that is occasionally mentioned on this board. It's a great school, but an added cash flow of $400K would make it even better. However, our PTA has a few thousand dollars in the bank at any given time.

As for the idea that the PTA money should be divided? Not going to happen. Ever. As a previous poster pointed out, the main fundraiser at most of these schools is gifts from parents.

At our school, the parents don't have that sort of money to make charitable contributions to public schools.

[Anonymous]

I have never heard of the PTA paying an extra homeroom teacher. Aides in classroom, lunchroom, specials like science, art, music, foreign language, yes. Dividing fourth graders into 5 classes of 20 instead of 4 classes of 25, no.

[Anonymous]

does anyone else think the practice of allowing schools to fundraise for their own PTAs should be discontinued? it's just so patently unfair. everyone should donate into the same system-wide PTA pot.

won't happen in a zillion years, of course, but that is the way it should be.

I actually don't understand the reasoning here. Why would it be better to have a system-wide pot? What incentive would that provide to schools with already poor PTA participation to work harder to fund-raise?