Arlington Traditional School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The social issues for ATS students moving to middle school are well known. If you decide to send your child to ATS, I would recommend also enrolling your child in some neighbor-based activities like soccer or scouts with the Drew teams/groups rather than ATS to help your child make friends with kids who are likely to go to the same middle school.

Is this an ATS thing or all option schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social issues for ATS students moving to middle school are well known. If you decide to send your child to ATS, I would recommend also enrolling your child in some neighbor-based activities like soccer or scouts with the Drew teams/groups rather than ATS to help your child make friends with kids who are likely to go to the same middle school.

Is this an ATS thing or all option schools

ATS is the only option school that doesn’t have a middle school path. For other option schools, if you continue to the middle school program, you’ll be with a bunch of kids you know. But if you leave the option program for middle school, it can also be an issue. Geography also matters - all of the option schools draw disproportionate from the surrounding area, so if you live in the same middle school zone the option elementary school sits in, your kid likely will know more kids at the middle school from elementary than if the option elementary is across the county from where you live.

[Anonymous]

Campbell doesn’t have a middle school path....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS is good for white parents looking for the “right” kind of diversity (i.e., high achieving) while having comfort that their white children will still be the plurality.

ATS is diverse economically as well. The majority of ATS’ economically disadvantaged students come from their VPE program. Seems like there is a lot of resentment towards ATS from parents who don’t have kids there. ATS is a great school that has managed to close the achievement gap. Not sure why there is so much anger towards one school. Also this “right kind of diversity” is offensive to all of us minorities in the school - apparently our diversity is nor good enough for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in ATS in first grade. My second will be in their kindergarten class. We absolutely love it. Speaking of diversity, initially applied because our neighborhood school is all white (though it is such a wonderful school) and a friend suggested that this school would be a good fit for her since it was more diverse. Being not white ourselves, we felt like it would be good for her to go to a school where she didn’t feel different. We also wanted the flexibility of moving without having to have our kids switch schools. However we have come to love the school and appreciate it’s philosophy. First of all it is extremely diverse - with families from all over the world. Unlike our neighborhood school, it has a significant portion of its population that qualify for free and reduced lunch due to its VPE program (I’m assuming that drew is similar in that regard). What is unique about AT though, is the achievement gap is quite low. Everyone does well and it’s because of the resources the school puts into their students and also their teaching methods. Unlike many other Arlington schools for example, they stay away from Lucy Calkins. Their reading program is phonics based and ensures that kids learn how to read no matter what their socio-economic background is. I also love their focus on writing. My daughter was writing full sentences and paragraphs by the end of Kindergarten as were so many others in her class. Most of their work is done by hand and on paper so it really improves their fine motor skills. Yes there is homework which I was initially against but there is such a vast improvement in their writing and reading that I feel it is actually beneficial. I also love their focus on art and music. Don’t worry about it being “too much.” My daughter loves it and made lots of good friends. The teachers are warm and friendly and are a lot of fun. I remember my daughter telling me how funny her kindergarten teacher was. Apparently he would make them laugh a lot! And yes a lot of ATS parents want their kids to go to HB even though they are diametrically opposed philosophically. Many of us aren’t attached to a school philosophy - we just want a school that works and educates our kids. Option schools are generally more diverse because they pull from all over the county so I doubt people are sending their kids to ATS and HB to avoid diversity. Notice the critics of ATS here - the majority don’t have kids at ATS. I strongly believe that you should only talk about what you know. I know nothing about Drew. I’m sure like many Arlington schools it’s great (and I’m also assuming that because of its location, it is more diverse than our neighborhood school). But I can tell you that our experience with ATS has been great and we plan on sticking with it.

I'm not trying to criticize ATS here. But I can speak to people avoiding their neighborhood school. It absolutely happens and for different reasons. People in mostly white schools like the idea of diversity and/or the choice program philosophy. White people in the high FRL districts often avoid their high FRL school and might also be interested in the instructional program as a bonus. Some people just really want the choice program. And a lot of people just think ATS is the end all be all or their kid isn't getting the best education if they don't go there because ATS scores are typically the highest in the district.

the ATS to HBWoodlawn path is absolutely illogical from an instructional philosophy perspective. ATS is very structured and rigid. HBW is the exact opposite.

I do think some of the instructional approaches are better at ATS and the expectations are high for every student. However, historically, the principal has had too much influence on admissions and there hasn't been a lot of patience with students who don't fall in line or perform high enough or need too much in the way of special ed/accommodations. Hopefully that has changed in the last few years??

OP, I'm very confident your child will thrive and be happy in either school. She won't know the difference because whichever you send her to will be all she knows. I don't think it's worth all the angst to make a decision and if you would prefer a little less stress and anxiety and less pressure, Drew is for you. If you're hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager parent who thinks nothing but the most elite will do for your child and their future success, go ahead and take the ATS slot.

“ If you're hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager parent who thinks nothing but the most elite will do for your child and their future success, go ahead and take the ATS slot.”

Omg just came across this thread. What is wrong with ppl? Seriously ppl in Arlington need to grow up. Why so much hatred towards one school all from ppl who don’t have experience with that school. My daughter is in ATS. I am certainly not type A (though I sometimes wish I were lol). ATS like most Arlington schools has many different types of parents who sent their kids there for various reasons. I personally sent my daughter to ATS because of its diversity. We are middle eastern and I liked the fact that ATS has students from many different cultures - more so than any Arlington school. Yes some are diverse but ATS has a lot of cultural diversity. Also liked the idea that in case we decide to move (we live in a small townhouse) we wouldn’t have to worry about switching schools and wouldn’t feel the need to look into our tiny area or Arlington. ATS is a great school. It’s great academically and has a wonderful music and art program. There are many good schools in Arlington as well. It’s not a competition. OP I say talk to ppl with kids at ATS and kids at Drew. Ignore everyone else. You can also always try it for a year and see if you like it. If you don’t your neighborhood school will always be there. I ended up loving it and am planning to enroll my youngest there as well (she just got accepted into their kindergarten program). Also not sure why the hatred towards parents who send their kids to ATS and then HB Woodlawn. Like PP said, many of us aren’t married to a specific philosophy.

I'm the one who made the type-A comment. I didn't mean to imply that all ATS parents are like that. I was trying to suggest to OP that if they fall on that end of the scale, she might be happier with ATS than Drew. If she's not, then Drew would be fine.

While I don't harbor any hatred to ATS or HBW parents, I do object to parents taking slots at schools without being married to the instructional philosophy for their individual kid. Different instructional models are intended to accommodate different types of learners. Especially with HBW, the way admissions are done do not make any effort to match student need/learning style with the HB approach. I don't care about immersion or montessori for my family; but I would resent not getting in while others who are just so-so or indifferent about the instructional model, or who are just trying to avoid their neighborhood school, take the seats.

I’m the PP from the Middle East. This is the hilarious thing about some Americans that are born and raised here that us immigrants love to joke about. Ppl here seem to be married to certain philosophies for everything. Everyone has some parenting philosophy - attachment parenting, free range, positive parenting, authoritative... Same with education... there’s the Montessori crowd, the traditional crowd, play based, academic, the list goes on. Some of us just want a good school that teaches well. I don’t care how ATS does it. All I know is that is it one of the best elementary schools in Virginia and that’s good enough for me (and there are many great Arlington schools as well... I’m not dissing them either. We are lucky to live in such a good school district). On top of that it seems to work well for different types of kids. Now with HB Woodlawn yes. I would only enroll my middle schooler there if there are the type that is self motivated and don’t need structure. Also remember that middle schoolers and elementary schoolers are at different stages of childhood and something that works for one strange may not work for the other. That being said, I’m not sure why you even think you would know what’s best for another person’s child and what makes you think you can judge ppl for the reason they are sending their child to an option school? According to you there seems to be only one valid reason. Are you policing people’s choices and rationales now? Our neighbor sent her two boys to ATS and then HB Woodlawn. It worked out great for them and they seemed to love both schools. We live in a neighborhood that has some of the most highly regarded schools in Arlington so they weren’t trying to “escape” their neighborhood school.

I don't get why you interpret everything I state as applying to every single person at a particular place. I live in south Arlington - many parents in south Arlington who choose option schools do so because they are trying to avoid their neighborhood school. That doesn't mean every parent at HBW is motivated by the same. In fact, I would have liked HB for one of my kids because I think it would have been a much better fit. But definitely not for my other kid. Families mostly take the sibling preference at the choice schools and they do so without regard to whether or not it is the best fit for each child. It's a lot more convenient to have everyone together, for sure. Scoff as you like at the American tendency to recognize differences and believe that one size does not fit all. I have very different children for which the same approaches to learning absolutely do not work well for both.

And I wasn't judging people for the reasons they choose. And "policing" them? GMAB. It's fact that some choose an option for reasons other than personal adherence to the philosophy. It's fact that some parents are more high-strung and put more pressure on their kids than others. It's a fact that some parents think certain schools will not be good enough for their kid. OP asked for information. I offered my perspective from my experience and from what friends have shared about their experiences. You are the one extrapolating incorrectly that I suggested there's only one reason people choose option schools. Perhaps you're a bit more sensitive about some issue than you realize.

You are judging people though. You are judging ppl in South Arlington. You are judging people in North Arlington. You called ATS parents “hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager(s)” that think “nothing but the most elite will do for (their) child(ten) and their future success.” That’s called being judgmental. If you don’t see that then you clearly have a problem. You also seem to think that I don’t recognize differences between kids and don’t believe that some kids need different approaches to learning. I clearly said that in my comment about HB not being good for kids who need structure. You seem however to be unable to recognize that children change as they grow. So an elementary school kid who benefited from the structure of ATS during elementary school may benefit from a program like HB when they are older and in middle school. Second, a program like ATS can work for different types of learners. Good schools (and there are many good schools in Arlington) are able to accommodate different types of learners and are beneficial to different types of learners.

The thing I wonder though is why do you care so much and why do you have so many thoughts over a school you have absolutely no experience with? Your kids aren’t at ATS. Seems like you have a lot of vent up resentment towards parents who send their kids there. I don’t go around dissing parents who send their kids to neighborhood schools or other option schools such as Campbell (an amazing school by the way and another school that has a program that should be replicated). Why are you?

[Anonymous]

^^^ The M in DCUM stands for miserable!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social issues for ATS students moving to middle school are well known. If you decide to send your child to ATS, I would recommend also enrolling your child in some neighbor-based activities like soccer or scouts with the Drew teams/groups rather than ATS to help your child make friends with kids who are likely to go to the same middle school.

Is this an ATS thing or all option schools

ATS is the only option school that doesn’t have a middle school path. For other option schools, if you continue to the middle school program, you’ll be with a bunch of kids you know. But if you leave the option program for middle school, it can also be an issue. Geography also matters - all of the option schools draw disproportionate from the surrounding area, so if you live in the same middle school zone the option elementary school sits in, your kid likely will know more kids at the middle school from elementary than if the option elementary is across the county from where you live.

Hmm. I'm not so sure. Campbell does not have a program path to middle school, although a majority of the students there (so far, due to admissions policies) have been from the neighborhood. Immersion has a middle and high school path; but a good portion don't continue because the middle school (and high school) locations are in far south Arlington. Finally, Montessori does not have a middle school path either.

In the past, ATS students who also got into HB would have several familiar faces because several ATS students also tended to get into HBW. Admissions policies to HBW have changed now; so maybe that's less common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is ATS so popular with everyone? Is it that much better than all the neighborhood schools?

They don't use Lucy Calkins!

The other schools won’t next year. They are moving to structured literacy.

“They are moving”

How quickly? Will any schools use LC this fall?

Unfortunately Lucy Calkins is now selling a subpar structured literacy program that some Arlington schools are adopting. Here’s a little about Calkins.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.apmreports.org/amp/episode/2020/01/27/lucy-calkins-reading-materials-review

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.apmreports.org/amp/story/2020/10/16/influential-literacy-expert-lucy-calkins-is-changing-her-views

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in ATS in first grade. My second will be in their kindergarten class. We absolutely love it. Speaking of diversity, initially applied because our neighborhood school is all white (though it is such a wonderful school) and a friend suggested that this school would be a good fit for her since it was more diverse. Being not white ourselves, we felt like it would be good for her to go to a school where she didn’t feel different. We also wanted the flexibility of moving without having to have our kids switch schools. However we have come to love the school and appreciate it’s philosophy. First of all it is extremely diverse - with families from all over the world. Unlike our neighborhood school, it has a significant portion of its population that qualify for free and reduced lunch due to its VPE program (I’m assuming that drew is similar in that regard). What is unique about AT though, is the achievement gap is quite low. Everyone does well and it’s because of the resources the school puts into their students and also their teaching methods. Unlike many other Arlington schools for example, they stay away from Lucy Calkins. Their reading program is phonics based and ensures that kids learn how to read no matter what their socio-economic background is. I also love their focus on writing. My daughter was writing full sentences and paragraphs by the end of Kindergarten as were so many others in her class. Most of their work is done by hand and on paper so it really improves their fine motor skills. Yes there is homework which I was initially against but there is such a vast improvement in their writing and reading that I feel it is actually beneficial. I also love their focus on art and music. Don’t worry about it being “too much.” My daughter loves it and made lots of good friends. The teachers are warm and friendly and are a lot of fun. I remember my daughter telling me how funny her kindergarten teacher was. Apparently he would make them laugh a lot! And yes a lot of ATS parents want their kids to go to HB even though they are diametrically opposed philosophically. Many of us aren’t attached to a school philosophy - we just want a school that works and educates our kids. Option schools are generally more diverse because they pull from all over the county so I doubt people are sending their kids to ATS and HB to avoid diversity. Notice the critics of ATS here - the majority don’t have kids at ATS. I strongly believe that you should only talk about what you know. I know nothing about Drew. I’m sure like many Arlington schools it’s great (and I’m also assuming that because of its location, it is more diverse than our neighborhood school). But I can tell you that our experience with ATS has been great and we plan on sticking with it.

I'm not trying to criticize ATS here. But I can speak to people avoiding their neighborhood school. It absolutely happens and for different reasons. People in mostly white schools like the idea of diversity and/or the choice program philosophy. White people in the high FRL districts often avoid their high FRL school and might also be interested in the instructional program as a bonus. Some people just really want the choice program. And a lot of people just think ATS is the end all be all or their kid isn't getting the best education if they don't go there because ATS scores are typically the highest in the district.

the ATS to HBWoodlawn path is absolutely illogical from an instructional philosophy perspective. ATS is very structured and rigid. HBW is the exact opposite.

I do think some of the instructional approaches are better at ATS and the expectations are high for every student. However, historically, the principal has had too much influence on admissions and there hasn't been a lot of patience with students who don't fall in line or perform high enough or need too much in the way of special ed/accommodations. Hopefully that has changed in the last few years??

OP, I'm very confident your child will thrive and be happy in either school. She won't know the difference because whichever you send her to will be all she knows. I don't think it's worth all the angst to make a decision and if you would prefer a little less stress and anxiety and less pressure, Drew is for you. If you're hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager parent who thinks nothing but the most elite will do for your child and their future success, go ahead and take the ATS slot.

“ If you're hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager parent who thinks nothing but the most elite will do for your child and their future success, go ahead and take the ATS slot.”

Omg just came across this thread. What is wrong with ppl? Seriously ppl in Arlington need to grow up. Why so much hatred towards one school all from ppl who don’t have experience with that school. My daughter is in ATS. I am certainly not type A (though I sometimes wish I were lol). ATS like most Arlington schools has many different types of parents who sent their kids there for various reasons. I personally sent my daughter to ATS because of its diversity. We are middle eastern and I liked the fact that ATS has students from many different cultures - more so than any Arlington school. Yes some are diverse but ATS has a lot of cultural diversity. Also liked the idea that in case we decide to move (we live in a small townhouse) we wouldn’t have to worry about switching schools and wouldn’t feel the need to look into our tiny area or Arlington. ATS is a great school. It’s great academically and has a wonderful music and art program. There are many good schools in Arlington as well. It’s not a competition. OP I say talk to ppl with kids at ATS and kids at Drew. Ignore everyone else. You can also always try it for a year and see if you like it. If you don’t your neighborhood school will always be there. I ended up loving it and am planning to enroll my youngest there as well (she just got accepted into their kindergarten program). Also not sure why the hatred towards parents who send their kids to ATS and then HB Woodlawn. Like PP said, many of us aren’t married to a specific philosophy.

I'm the one who made the type-A comment. I didn't mean to imply that all ATS parents are like that. I was trying to suggest to OP that if they fall on that end of the scale, she might be happier with ATS than Drew. If she's not, then Drew would be fine.

While I don't harbor any hatred to ATS or HBW parents, I do object to parents taking slots at schools without being married to the instructional philosophy for their individual kid. Different instructional models are intended to accommodate different types of learners. Especially with HBW, the way admissions are done do not make any effort to match student need/learning style with the HB approach. I don't care about immersion or montessori for my family; but I would resent not getting in while others who are just so-so or indifferent about the instructional model, or who are just trying to avoid their neighborhood school, take the seats.

I’m the PP from the Middle East. This is the hilarious thing about some Americans that are born and raised here that us immigrants love to joke about. Ppl here seem to be married to certain philosophies for everything. Everyone has some parenting philosophy - attachment parenting, free range, positive parenting, authoritative... Same with education... there’s the Montessori crowd, the traditional crowd, play based, academic, the list goes on. Some of us just want a good school that teaches well. I don’t care how ATS does it. All I know is that is it one of the best elementary schools in Virginia and that’s good enough for me (and there are many great Arlington schools as well... I’m not dissing them either. We are lucky to live in such a good school district). On top of that it seems to work well for different types of kids. Now with HB Woodlawn yes. I would only enroll my middle schooler there if there are the type that is self motivated and don’t need structure. Also remember that middle schoolers and elementary schoolers are at different stages of childhood and something that works for one strange may not work for the other. That being said, I’m not sure why you even think you would know what’s best for another person’s child and what makes you think you can judge ppl for the reason they are sending their child to an option school? According to you there seems to be only one valid reason. Are you policing people’s choices and rationales now? Our neighbor sent her two boys to ATS and then HB Woodlawn. It worked out great for them and they seemed to love both schools. We live in a neighborhood that has some of the most highly regarded schools in Arlington so they weren’t trying to “escape” their neighborhood school.

I don't get why you interpret everything I state as applying to every single person at a particular place. I live in south Arlington - many parents in south Arlington who choose option schools do so because they are trying to avoid their neighborhood school. That doesn't mean every parent at HBW is motivated by the same. In fact, I would have liked HB for one of my kids because I think it would have been a much better fit. But definitely not for my other kid. Families mostly take the sibling preference at the choice schools and they do so without regard to whether or not it is the best fit for each child. It's a lot more convenient to have everyone together, for sure. Scoff as you like at the American tendency to recognize differences and believe that one size does not fit all. I have very different children for which the same approaches to learning absolutely do not work well for both.

And I wasn't judging people for the reasons they choose. And "policing" them? GMAB. It's fact that some choose an option for reasons other than personal adherence to the philosophy. It's fact that some parents are more high-strung and put more pressure on their kids than others. It's a fact that some parents think certain schools will not be good enough for their kid. OP asked for information. I offered my perspective from my experience and from what friends have shared about their experiences. You are the one extrapolating incorrectly that I suggested there's only one reason people choose option schools. Perhaps you're a bit more sensitive about some issue than you realize.

You are judging people though. You are judging ppl in South Arlington. You are judging people in North Arlington. You called ATS parents “hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager(s)” that think “nothing but the most elite will do for (their) child(ten) and their future success.” That’s called being judgmental. If you don’t see that then you clearly have a problem. You also seem to think that I don’t recognize differences between kids and don’t believe that some kids need different approaches to learning. I clearly said that in my comment about HB not being good for kids who need structure. You seem however to be unable to recognize that children change as they grow. So an elementary school kid who benefited from the structure of ATS during elementary school may benefit from a program like HB when they are older and in middle school. Second, a program like ATS can work for different types of learners. Good schools (and there are many good schools in Arlington) are able to accommodate different types of learners and are beneficial to different types of learners.

The thing I wonder though is why do you care so much and why do you have so many thoughts over a school you have absolutely no experience with? Your kids aren’t at ATS. Seems like you have a lot of vent up resentment towards parents who send their kids there. I don’t go around dissing parents who send their kids to neighborhood schools or other option schools such as Campbell (an amazing school by the way and another school that has a program that should be replicated). Why are you?

Actually, you have assumed I never had/don't have kids at ATS. I do have direct knowledge of ATS. I also talk to a lot of parents at various schools across the County. I'm not "judging" - some parents have clearly stated their reasons for going to ATS, and for other option programs; and some of the parents I know at ATS ARE hyper Type-A, more of them so than the other schools I know directly. It's a statement, not a judgment. The atmosphere and environment at various schools are different. If you've been in many of them, you might notice that. PTA activities and leadership styles (and principal styles) vary quite a bit as well. Not judgment - fact. Glad you're happy and your kids are thriving. I hope you don't take that as judgmental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social issues for ATS students moving to middle school are well known. If you decide to send your child to ATS, I would recommend also enrolling your child in some neighbor-based activities like soccer or scouts with the Drew teams/groups rather than ATS to help your child make friends with kids who are likely to go to the same middle school.

Is this an ATS thing or all option schools

ATS is the only option school that doesn’t have a middle school path. For other option schools, if you continue to the middle school program, you’ll be with a bunch of kids you know. But if you leave the option program for middle school, it can also be an issue. Geography also matters - all of the option schools draw disproportionate from the surrounding area, so if you live in the same middle school zone the option elementary school sits in, your kid likely will know more kids at the middle school from elementary than if the option elementary is across the county from where you live.

Hmm. I'm not so sure. Campbell does not have a program path to middle school, although a majority of the students there (so far, due to admissions policies) have been from the neighborhood. Immersion has a middle and high school path; but a good portion don't continue because the middle school (and high school) locations are in far south Arlington. Finally, Montessori does not have a middle school path either.

In the past, ATS students who also got into HB would have several familiar faces because several ATS students also tended to get into HBW. Admissions policies to HBW have changed now; so maybe that's less common.

Yeah I’m pretty sure that HBW now has a limit over how many students it can take from each elementary school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in ATS in first grade. My second will be in their kindergarten class. We absolutely love it. Speaking of diversity, initially applied because our neighborhood school is all white (though it is such a wonderful school) and a friend suggested that this school would be a good fit for her since it was more diverse. Being not white ourselves, we felt like it would be good for her to go to a school where she didn’t feel different. We also wanted the flexibility of moving without having to have our kids switch schools. However we have come to love the school and appreciate it’s philosophy. First of all it is extremely diverse - with families from all over the world. Unlike our neighborhood school, it has a significant portion of its population that qualify for free and reduced lunch due to its VPE program (I’m assuming that drew is similar in that regard). What is unique about AT though, is the achievement gap is quite low. Everyone does well and it’s because of the resources the school puts into their students and also their teaching methods. Unlike many other Arlington schools for example, they stay away from Lucy Calkins. Their reading program is phonics based and ensures that kids learn how to read no matter what their socio-economic background is. I also love their focus on writing. My daughter was writing full sentences and paragraphs by the end of Kindergarten as were so many others in her class. Most of their work is done by hand and on paper so it really improves their fine motor skills. Yes there is homework which I was initially against but there is such a vast improvement in their writing and reading that I feel it is actually beneficial. I also love their focus on art and music. Don’t worry about it being “too much.” My daughter loves it and made lots of good friends. The teachers are warm and friendly and are a lot of fun. I remember my daughter telling me how funny her kindergarten teacher was. Apparently he would make them laugh a lot! And yes a lot of ATS parents want their kids to go to HB even though they are diametrically opposed philosophically. Many of us aren’t attached to a school philosophy - we just want a school that works and educates our kids. Option schools are generally more diverse because they pull from all over the county so I doubt people are sending their kids to ATS and HB to avoid diversity. Notice the critics of ATS here - the majority don’t have kids at ATS. I strongly believe that you should only talk about what you know. I know nothing about Drew. I’m sure like many Arlington schools it’s great (and I’m also assuming that because of its location, it is more diverse than our neighborhood school). But I can tell you that our experience with ATS has been great and we plan on sticking with it.

I'm not trying to criticize ATS here. But I can speak to people avoiding their neighborhood school. It absolutely happens and for different reasons. People in mostly white schools like the idea of diversity and/or the choice program philosophy. White people in the high FRL districts often avoid their high FRL school and might also be interested in the instructional program as a bonus. Some people just really want the choice program. And a lot of people just think ATS is the end all be all or their kid isn't getting the best education if they don't go there because ATS scores are typically the highest in the district.

the ATS to HBWoodlawn path is absolutely illogical from an instructional philosophy perspective. ATS is very structured and rigid. HBW is the exact opposite.

I do think some of the instructional approaches are better at ATS and the expectations are high for every student. However, historically, the principal has had too much influence on admissions and there hasn't been a lot of patience with students who don't fall in line or perform high enough or need too much in the way of special ed/accommodations. Hopefully that has changed in the last few years??

OP, I'm very confident your child will thrive and be happy in either school. She won't know the difference because whichever you send her to will be all she knows. I don't think it's worth all the angst to make a decision and if you would prefer a little less stress and anxiety and less pressure, Drew is for you. If you're hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager parent who thinks nothing but the most elite will do for your child and their future success, go ahead and take the ATS slot.

“ If you're hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager parent who thinks nothing but the most elite will do for your child and their future success, go ahead and take the ATS slot.”

Omg just came across this thread. What is wrong with ppl? Seriously ppl in Arlington need to grow up. Why so much hatred towards one school all from ppl who don’t have experience with that school. My daughter is in ATS. I am certainly not type A (though I sometimes wish I were lol). ATS like most Arlington schools has many different types of parents who sent their kids there for various reasons. I personally sent my daughter to ATS because of its diversity. We are middle eastern and I liked the fact that ATS has students from many different cultures - more so than any Arlington school. Yes some are diverse but ATS has a lot of cultural diversity. Also liked the idea that in case we decide to move (we live in a small townhouse) we wouldn’t have to worry about switching schools and wouldn’t feel the need to look into our tiny area or Arlington. ATS is a great school. It’s great academically and has a wonderful music and art program. There are many good schools in Arlington as well. It’s not a competition. OP I say talk to ppl with kids at ATS and kids at Drew. Ignore everyone else. You can also always try it for a year and see if you like it. If you don’t your neighborhood school will always be there. I ended up loving it and am planning to enroll my youngest there as well (she just got accepted into their kindergarten program). Also not sure why the hatred towards parents who send their kids to ATS and then HB Woodlawn. Like PP said, many of us aren’t married to a specific philosophy.

I'm the one who made the type-A comment. I didn't mean to imply that all ATS parents are like that. I was trying to suggest to OP that if they fall on that end of the scale, she might be happier with ATS than Drew. If she's not, then Drew would be fine.

While I don't harbor any hatred to ATS or HBW parents, I do object to parents taking slots at schools without being married to the instructional philosophy for their individual kid. Different instructional models are intended to accommodate different types of learners. Especially with HBW, the way admissions are done do not make any effort to match student need/learning style with the HB approach. I don't care about immersion or montessori for my family; but I would resent not getting in while others who are just so-so or indifferent about the instructional model, or who are just trying to avoid their neighborhood school, take the seats.

I’m the PP from the Middle East. This is the hilarious thing about some Americans that are born and raised here that us immigrants love to joke about. Ppl here seem to be married to certain philosophies for everything. Everyone has some parenting philosophy - attachment parenting, free range, positive parenting, authoritative... Same with education... there’s the Montessori crowd, the traditional crowd, play based, academic, the list goes on. Some of us just want a good school that teaches well. I don’t care how ATS does it. All I know is that is it one of the best elementary schools in Virginia and that’s good enough for me (and there are many great Arlington schools as well... I’m not dissing them either. We are lucky to live in such a good school district). On top of that it seems to work well for different types of kids. Now with HB Woodlawn yes. I would only enroll my middle schooler there if there are the type that is self motivated and don’t need structure. Also remember that middle schoolers and elementary schoolers are at different stages of childhood and something that works for one strange may not work for the other. That being said, I’m not sure why you even think you would know what’s best for another person’s child and what makes you think you can judge ppl for the reason they are sending their child to an option school? According to you there seems to be only one valid reason. Are you policing people’s choices and rationales now? Our neighbor sent her two boys to ATS and then HB Woodlawn. It worked out great for them and they seemed to love both schools. We live in a neighborhood that has some of the most highly regarded schools in Arlington so they weren’t trying to “escape” their neighborhood school.

I don't get why you interpret everything I state as applying to every single person at a particular place. I live in south Arlington - many parents in south Arlington who choose option schools do so because they are trying to avoid their neighborhood school. That doesn't mean every parent at HBW is motivated by the same. In fact, I would have liked HB for one of my kids because I think it would have been a much better fit. But definitely not for my other kid. Families mostly take the sibling preference at the choice schools and they do so without regard to whether or not it is the best fit for each child. It's a lot more convenient to have everyone together, for sure. Scoff as you like at the American tendency to recognize differences and believe that one size does not fit all. I have very different children for which the same approaches to learning absolutely do not work well for both.

And I wasn't judging people for the reasons they choose. And "policing" them? GMAB. It's fact that some choose an option for reasons other than personal adherence to the philosophy. It's fact that some parents are more high-strung and put more pressure on their kids than others. It's a fact that some parents think certain schools will not be good enough for their kid. OP asked for information. I offered my perspective from my experience and from what friends have shared about their experiences. You are the one extrapolating incorrectly that I suggested there's only one reason people choose option schools. Perhaps you're a bit more sensitive about some issue than you realize.

You are judging people though. You are judging ppl in South Arlington. You are judging people in North Arlington. You called ATS parents “hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager(s)” that think “nothing but the most elite will do for (their) child(ten) and their future success.” That’s called being judgmental. If you don’t see that then you clearly have a problem. You also seem to think that I don’t recognize differences between kids and don’t believe that some kids need different approaches to learning. I clearly said that in my comment about HB not being good for kids who need structure. You seem however to be unable to recognize that children change as they grow. So an elementary school kid who benefited from the structure of ATS during elementary school may benefit from a program like HB when they are older and in middle school. Second, a program like ATS can work for different types of learners. Good schools (and there are many good schools in Arlington) are able to accommodate different types of learners and are beneficial to different types of learners.

The thing I wonder though is why do you care so much and why do you have so many thoughts over a school you have absolutely no experience with? Your kids aren’t at ATS. Seems like you have a lot of vent up resentment towards parents who send their kids there. I don’t go around dissing parents who send their kids to neighborhood schools or other option schools such as Campbell (an amazing school by the way and another school that has a program that should be replicated). Why are you?

Actually, you have assumed I never had/don't have kids at ATS. I do have direct knowledge of ATS. I also talk to a lot of parents at various schools across the County. I'm not "judging" - some parents have clearly stated their reasons for going to ATS, and for other option programs; and some of the parents I know at ATS ARE hyper Type-A, more of them so than the other schools I know directly. It's a statement, not a judgment. The atmosphere and environment at various schools are different. If you've been in many of them, you might notice that. PTA activities and leadership styles (and principal styles) vary quite a bit as well. Not judgment - fact. Glad you're happy and your kids are thriving. I hope you don't take that as judgmental.

Different poster here with a son at ATS. Then please share with us your direct knowledge re ATS. Clearly if you had a direct experience you would have mentioned it in your first post because it would be relevant to OPs question. Now that you have been criticized, you are changing your story. I don’t live in South Arlington and I don’t get this North vs South Arlington divide. There seems to be some history that I’m not privy to. We lived in NY before here and picked our neighborhood based on its proximity to the metro since we work in DC. It seems like you have a problem with parents in South Arlington that send their kids to option schools. I suggest you deal with that problem instead of dissing parents, whether in North or South Arlington, who decide to send their kids to option schools for various reasons.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in ATS in first grade. My second will be in their kindergarten class. We absolutely love it. Speaking of diversity, initially applied because our neighborhood school is all white (though it is such a wonderful school) and a friend suggested that this school would be a good fit for her since it was more diverse. Being not white ourselves, we felt like it would be good for her to go to a school where she didn’t feel different. We also wanted the flexibility of moving without having to have our kids switch schools. However we have come to love the school and appreciate it’s philosophy. First of all it is extremely diverse - with families from all over the world. Unlike our neighborhood school, it has a significant portion of its population that qualify for free and reduced lunch due to its VPE program (I’m assuming that drew is similar in that regard). What is unique about AT though, is the achievement gap is quite low. Everyone does well and it’s because of the resources the school puts into their students and also their teaching methods. Unlike many other Arlington schools for example, they stay away from Lucy Calkins. Their reading program is phonics based and ensures that kids learn how to read no matter what their socio-economic background is. I also love their focus on writing. My daughter was writing full sentences and paragraphs by the end of Kindergarten as were so many others in her class. Most of their work is done by hand and on paper so it really improves their fine motor skills. Yes there is homework which I was initially against but there is such a vast improvement in their writing and reading that I feel it is actually beneficial. I also love their focus on art and music. Don’t worry about it being “too much.” My daughter loves it and made lots of good friends. The teachers are warm and friendly and are a lot of fun. I remember my daughter telling me how funny her kindergarten teacher was. Apparently he would make them laugh a lot! And yes a lot of ATS parents want their kids to go to HB even though they are diametrically opposed philosophically. Many of us aren’t attached to a school philosophy - we just want a school that works and educates our kids. Option schools are generally more diverse because they pull from all over the county so I doubt people are sending their kids to ATS and HB to avoid diversity. Notice the critics of ATS here - the majority don’t have kids at ATS. I strongly believe that you should only talk about what you know. I know nothing about Drew. I’m sure like many Arlington schools it’s great (and I’m also assuming that because of its location, it is more diverse than our neighborhood school). But I can tell you that our experience with ATS has been great and we plan on sticking with it.

I'm not trying to criticize ATS here. But I can speak to people avoiding their neighborhood school. It absolutely happens and for different reasons. People in mostly white schools like the idea of diversity and/or the choice program philosophy. White people in the high FRL districts often avoid their high FRL school and might also be interested in the instructional program as a bonus. Some people just really want the choice program. And a lot of people just think ATS is the end all be all or their kid isn't getting the best education if they don't go there because ATS scores are typically the highest in the district.

the ATS to HBWoodlawn path is absolutely illogical from an instructional philosophy perspective. ATS is very structured and rigid. HBW is the exact opposite.

I do think some of the instructional approaches are better at ATS and the expectations are high for every student. However, historically, the principal has had too much influence on admissions and there hasn't been a lot of patience with students who don't fall in line or perform high enough or need too much in the way of special ed/accommodations. Hopefully that has changed in the last few years??

OP, I'm very confident your child will thrive and be happy in either school. She won't know the difference because whichever you send her to will be all she knows. I don't think it's worth all the angst to make a decision and if you would prefer a little less stress and anxiety and less pressure, Drew is for you. If you're hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager parent who thinks nothing but the most elite will do for your child and their future success, go ahead and take the ATS slot.

“ If you're hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager parent who thinks nothing but the most elite will do for your child and their future success, go ahead and take the ATS slot.”

Omg just came across this thread. What is wrong with ppl? Seriously ppl in Arlington need to grow up. Why so much hatred towards one school all from ppl who don’t have experience with that school. My daughter is in ATS. I am certainly not type A (though I sometimes wish I were lol). ATS like most Arlington schools has many different types of parents who sent their kids there for various reasons. I personally sent my daughter to ATS because of its diversity. We are middle eastern and I liked the fact that ATS has students from many different cultures - more so than any Arlington school. Yes some are diverse but ATS has a lot of cultural diversity. Also liked the idea that in case we decide to move (we live in a small townhouse) we wouldn’t have to worry about switching schools and wouldn’t feel the need to look into our tiny area or Arlington. ATS is a great school. It’s great academically and has a wonderful music and art program. There are many good schools in Arlington as well. It’s not a competition. OP I say talk to ppl with kids at ATS and kids at Drew. Ignore everyone else. You can also always try it for a year and see if you like it. If you don’t your neighborhood school will always be there. I ended up loving it and am planning to enroll my youngest there as well (she just got accepted into their kindergarten program). Also not sure why the hatred towards parents who send their kids to ATS and then HB Woodlawn. Like PP said, many of us aren’t married to a specific philosophy.

I'm the one who made the type-A comment. I didn't mean to imply that all ATS parents are like that. I was trying to suggest to OP that if they fall on that end of the scale, she might be happier with ATS than Drew. If she's not, then Drew would be fine.

While I don't harbor any hatred to ATS or HBW parents, I do object to parents taking slots at schools without being married to the instructional philosophy for their individual kid. Different instructional models are intended to accommodate different types of learners. Especially with HBW, the way admissions are done do not make any effort to match student need/learning style with the HB approach. I don't care about immersion or montessori for my family; but I would resent not getting in while others who are just so-so or indifferent about the instructional model, or who are just trying to avoid their neighborhood school, take the seats.

I’m the PP from the Middle East. This is the hilarious thing about some Americans that are born and raised here that us immigrants love to joke about. Ppl here seem to be married to certain philosophies for everything. Everyone has some parenting philosophy - attachment parenting, free range, positive parenting, authoritative... Same with education... there’s the Montessori crowd, the traditional crowd, play based, academic, the list goes on. Some of us just want a good school that teaches well. I don’t care how ATS does it. All I know is that is it one of the best elementary schools in Virginia and that’s good enough for me (and there are many great Arlington schools as well... I’m not dissing them either. We are lucky to live in such a good school district). On top of that it seems to work well for different types of kids. Now with HB Woodlawn yes. I would only enroll my middle schooler there if there are the type that is self motivated and don’t need structure. Also remember that middle schoolers and elementary schoolers are at different stages of childhood and something that works for one strange may not work for the other. That being said, I’m not sure why you even think you would know what’s best for another person’s child and what makes you think you can judge ppl for the reason they are sending their child to an option school? According to you there seems to be only one valid reason. Are you policing people’s choices and rationales now? Our neighbor sent her two boys to ATS and then HB Woodlawn. It worked out great for them and they seemed to love both schools. We live in a neighborhood that has some of the most highly regarded schools in Arlington so they weren’t trying to “escape” their neighborhood school.

I don't get why you interpret everything I state as applying to every single person at a particular place. I live in south Arlington - many parents in south Arlington who choose option schools do so because they are trying to avoid their neighborhood school. That doesn't mean every parent at HBW is motivated by the same. In fact, I would have liked HB for one of my kids because I think it would have been a much better fit. But definitely not for my other kid. Families mostly take the sibling preference at the choice schools and they do so without regard to whether or not it is the best fit for each child. It's a lot more convenient to have everyone together, for sure. Scoff as you like at the American tendency to recognize differences and believe that one size does not fit all. I have very different children for which the same approaches to learning absolutely do not work well for both.

And I wasn't judging people for the reasons they choose. And "policing" them? GMAB. It's fact that some choose an option for reasons other than personal adherence to the philosophy. It's fact that some parents are more high-strung and put more pressure on their kids than others. It's a fact that some parents think certain schools will not be good enough for their kid. OP asked for information. I offered my perspective from my experience and from what friends have shared about their experiences. You are the one extrapolating incorrectly that I suggested there's only one reason people choose option schools. Perhaps you're a bit more sensitive about some issue than you realize.

You are judging people though. You are judging ppl in South Arlington. You are judging people in North Arlington. You called ATS parents “hyper type-A typical Arlington helicopter micromanager(s)” that think “nothing but the most elite will do for (their) child(ten) and their future success.” That’s called being judgmental. If you don’t see that then you clearly have a problem. You also seem to think that I don’t recognize differences between kids and don’t believe that some kids need different approaches to learning. I clearly said that in my comment about HB not being good for kids who need structure. You seem however to be unable to recognize that children change as they grow. So an elementary school kid who benefited from the structure of ATS during elementary school may benefit from a program like HB when they are older and in middle school. Second, a program like ATS can work for different types of learners. Good schools (and there are many good schools in Arlington) are able to accommodate different types of learners and are beneficial to different types of learners.

The thing I wonder though is why do you care so much and why do you have so many thoughts over a school you have absolutely no experience with? Your kids aren’t at ATS. Seems like you have a lot of vent up resentment towards parents who send their kids there. I don’t go around dissing parents who send their kids to neighborhood schools or other option schools such as Campbell (an amazing school by the way and another school that has a program that should be replicated). Why are you?

Actually, you have assumed I never had/don't have kids at ATS. I do have direct knowledge of ATS. I also talk to a lot of parents at various schools across the County. I'm not "judging" - some parents have clearly stated their reasons for going to ATS, and for other option programs; and some of the parents I know at ATS ARE hyper Type-A, more of them so than the other schools I know directly. It's a statement, not a judgment. The atmosphere and environment at various schools are different. If you've been in many of them, you might notice that. PTA activities and leadership styles (and principal styles) vary quite a bit as well. Not judgment - fact. Glad you're happy and your kids are thriving. I hope you don't take that as judgmental.

Different poster here with a son at ATS. Then please share with us your direct knowledge re ATS. Clearly if you had a direct experience you would have mentioned it in your first post because it would be relevant to OPs question. Now that you have been criticized, you are changing your story. I don’t live in South Arlington and I don’t get this North vs South Arlington divide. There seems to be some history that I’m not privy to. We lived in NY before here and picked our neighborhood based on its proximity to the metro since we work in DC. It seems like you have a problem with parents in South Arlington that send their kids to option schools. I suggest you deal with that problem instead of dissing parents, whether in North or South Arlington, who decide to send their kids to option schools for various reasons.

Also you didn’t say that some parents that send their kids to ATS are type A. You told OP that if she is hyper type A micromanager that only wants the elite of the elite schools then she should send her kids to ATS. Presumably if she isn’t then she shouldn’t send her kids to ATS? Seems like that’s the logic you are using.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why is ATS so popular with everyone? Is it that much better than all the neighborhood schools?

They don't use Lucy Calkins!

The other schools won’t next year. They are moving to structured literacy.

“They are moving”

How quickly? Will any schools use LC this fall?

Unfortunately Lucy Calkins is now selling a subpar structured literacy program that some Arlington schools are adopting. Here’s a little about Calkins.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.apmreports.org/amp/episode/2020/01/27/lucy-calkins-reading-materials-review

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.apmreports.org/amp/story/2020/10/16/influential-literacy-expert-lucy-calkins-is-changing-her-views

Which schools? Name names. Because it’s absolutely asinine for the decisions to be made school-level. Enough with this pilot program sh**! Everyone should have access to structured literacy, best instructional practices, and rapid screeners for dyslexia. JFC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is ATS so popular with everyone? Is it that much better than all the neighborhood schools?

They don't use Lucy Calkins!

The other schools won’t next year. They are moving to structured literacy.

“They are moving”

How quickly? Will any schools use LC this fall?

Unfortunately Lucy Calkins is now selling a subpar structured literacy program that some Arlington schools are adopting. Here’s a little about Calkins.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.apmreports.org/amp/episode/2020/01/27/lucy-calkins-reading-materials-review

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.apmreports.org/amp/story/2020/10/16/influential-literacy-expert-lucy-calkins-is-changing-her-views

Which schools? Name names. Because it’s absolutely asinine for the decisions to be made school-level. Enough with this pilot program sh**! Everyone should have access to structured literacy, best instructional practices, and rapid screeners for dyslexia. JFC

Hmm.. not sure. I just remember someone on AEM sharing a chart with which school is adopting which program (apparently principals have a lot of leeway) and then saw that Calkins new program had been adopted by some schools. I’ve since left the group (was always a lurker and found the parents to be too much) and deleted Facebook all together (seems like I’m compensating by coming on DCUM though lol). There doesn’t seem to be a place where APS shares all this info and I believe (may be wrong) that the person sharing it was on one of the school committees. I agree with the PP who said that perhaps ATS’ principal should be made head of some county wide literacy program. My kids never went to ATS and are in middle school now so I’m not sure whether ATS parents would be upset about that (though it seems like the assistant principal is just as good). At some point APS just need to recognize that some of the reading programs aren’t working and they need to bring someone with expertise to implement a county wide reading and writing program that does work. Not to diss ATS but it just isn’t fair that there is one school in Arlington with a proven writing and reading program that works for kids from all socio-economic backgrounds, yet most kids in Arlington will not go to that school. We need to start seeing what programs are working in what schools and implementing them county wide. My understanding is that ATS’ strength is reading and writing so how about we just implement their program county wide? I work in government in a position that requires a lot of writing. I noticed that many college/graduate students applying for summer internships at my office simply cannot write properly. They all come from great schools. Based on what I’ve seen with my kids I think the problem comes from elementary school. I worked a lot on my kids to make sure their writing skills improved but isn’t that something schools should do? I heard that in the high school level IB is great for improving writing skills but again most kids won’t get into IB. Also I don’t think this is the fault of most high schools and high school teachers. It’s just that kids never got a good foundation to begin with. Something really needs to change here. What’s sad is that APS is one of the best school districts in the region, if not the country. So if we have these issues here than what is it like in other school districts???!!

[Anonymous]

PP here. Another thing. I have a writing background so I know for example that ATS provides a strong foundation in writing. I wonder what schools provide a strong foundation in math (if any)? I have no idea whether APS has a good math program or not and am curious whether some schools are better at math than others.