Why are schools serving meat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, how much would you be willing to have your taxes go up to pay for better food in schools?

I don't oppose it, and I don't oppose raised taxes myself -- just curious as to your dollar number.

OP. matter of priorities. WHAT is more important then kids who ARE the future tax generators? Total mismanagement of human potential.

Also HOW is it possible that EVERY other country can feed kids REAL food but US?

Unless we help everyone at the expense of our kids?

Hid you see American school food offering?

What did you notice about them?


HIGHLY processed frozen packaged foods.

Local farm fresh foods are cheaper then this crsp.

All we have to do is relocate money from spending nothing on industrial corporate junk food, buy local fresh food and hire cook who will prepare it at school, NOT A ROCKET SCIENCE.

And if you need budget/cost comparison and evaluation ask French and others who figured it long ago that it is less expensie to serve local fresh food and also long term to have healthy citizens who know and buy real food and are used to it.


The pronlem is that we support industrially produced nutriend devoid cardboapd tasting foods that is cheaply producesd by automation which removes work places and benefits few but deprawes many.

BAD MATH!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, how much would you be willing to have your taxes go up to pay for better food in schools?

I don't oppose it, and I don't oppose raised taxes myself -- just curious as to your dollar number.

OP. matter of priorities. WHAT is more important then kids who ARE the future tax generators? Total mismanagement of human potential.

Also HOW is it possible that EVERY other country can feed kids REAL food but US?

Unless we help everyone at the expense of our kids?

Hid you see American school food offering?

What did you notice about them?


HIGHLY processed frozen packaged foods.

Local farm fresh foods are cheaper then this crsp.

All we have to do is relocate money from spending nothing on industrial corporate junk food, buy local fresh food and hire cook who will prepare it at school, NOT A ROCKET SCIENCE.

And if you need budget/cost comparison and evaluation ask French and others who figured it long ago that it is less expensie to serve local fresh food and also long term to have healthy citizens who know and buy real food and are used to it.


The pronlem is that we support industrially produced nutriend devoid cardboapd tasting foods that is cheaply producesd by automation which removes work places and benefits few but deprawes many.

BAD MATH!

You have several fallacies in your argument.

It has been consistently shown hat local farm to table food is MORE expensive than the large mass produced foods. The problem is that there are many fixed costs including licensing, regulations, audits, health & safety that get factored across the products. The most you produce, the lower the overhead per unit is. Small, locally produced products have less output to factor the fixed costs across and end up with higher overhead. You can get a dozen mass produced eggs for sometimes 20-50% the cost of local farmed eggs, for example.

Second, you seem to think that buying less corporate food, buying local food, and hiring cooks to cook it is cheaper. It isn't. The mass produced foods are designed to be heated/reheated rather than cooked. There are many schools across the US that have no kitchens or very limited kitchens without a lot of equipment to cook. Additionally, cooks are far more expensive to hire than many kitchen workers. Additionally, nationwide there are many school districts that are struggling to provide adequate supplies for actual education, including books, writing materials, computers, and qualified teachers to teach them and you expect these school districts to find MORE money to provide food?

Additionally, in some parts of the country, the availability of local farms is far lower. Plus, you often cannot guarantee the output volume from local farms to guarantee the volume of food that locally source farms can provide. I remember a restaurant that I used to go to in Pennsylvania that cooked food from locally source farms. Some weeks, the produce was plentiful and the meals were great. But many weeks, the food was limited in what was provided and the restaurant had to have alternative sources to guarantee that they could stay in business and have food for all of their patrons every day the restaurant was open. Now, this was a small restaurant that had seating for about 50 people or so. Imagine trying to scale that to mid-sized
PP you obviously come from privilege. You are probably from Montgomery County, Fairfax County or some similarly privilege community. The school programs and meal programs need to be able to fit all public schools across the nation and having a large scale. Howard County is small and serves about 57K students. I can't see that a school system like Montgomery County, with 163K students being able to feed all students from locally sourced farms 5 days a week. You really think that locally source MD farms can produce enough to supply 205 schools enough food to make 163K meals twice per day? That's a lot to expect from local farms.

[Anonymous]

Stop trying to impose your lifestyle and beliefs upon others.

[Anonymous]

Protein

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that the issue is that we associate school lunch with being poor or having lazy or disengaged parents (especially a career-oriented mom) so we can dismiss the well-being of the kids who eat it.

My kids ate from home lunches in ES because of food allergies or other restrictions. It was extremely stressful on me and I was so relieved when the oldest got to HS with more vegetarian options and the younger girl outgrew allergies. I felt very invested in their ability to access a hot, balanced meal at school. Turns out I could get 2 out of those 3. So they started packing lunches again. It was something we could afford. Those who can’t are screwed.

[Anonymous]

You have the options to send a lunch to school with your kid's. I send Bento boxes with healthy fare for my girl's.

[Anonymous]

Well... let's see...


You have several fallacies in your argument.

It has been consistently shown hat local farm to table food is MORE expensive than the large mass produced foods./quote]

*I would assume you have some data to support that statement but we both know that the research results can depend on who finances it.
*I hope that in your infinite wisdom you hold true that US is the most horticulturally advanced country in the world with the best technology and resources so farming is way more cost effective here then in Italy, France, Brazil or UK, therefore I beg your explanation why those countries can provide produce for the school needs in the affordable non -subsidised manner. Let me suport this by
the fact that Jammie Oliver proved the very miracle possible in UK.
* As far as the consistency is concerned, if you are using the same methods and resources you surely will get the same results.

The problem is that there are many fixed costs including licensing, regulations, audits, health & safety that get factored across the products.

*My dear sir, who do you think imposes the very costs that are factored in? Licensing, regulations, audits etc. if not the goverment? They can very easily can take care of that and cut the red tape but the question is.. do they want to? That is the easiest of the parts to fix.

The most you produce, the lower the overhead per unit is. Small, locally produced products have less output to factor the fixed costs across and end up with higher overhead.

Ah, this is very nice one to argue. For one, you are focusing on cost as this is the ultimate goal. No, we are focusing on feeding a healthy food the underprivileged children in public schools. If the cost of the food is the ultimate goal, then the price is huge because you end up feeding children en masse with unhealthy food that can not feed and support their growing bodies so at the end of the day they will pay a cost of growing into unhealthy adults with horrible eating habits. Oh, unless this is the ultimate goal of course.

You can get a dozen mass produced eggs for sometimes 20-50% the cost of local farmed eggs, for example.

My Dear Friend, eggs.. ah.. another wonderful example. Know this: the best grade of Eggs that you can buy at Whole Foods are Pasture raised organic eggs. Retail cost: $6.00. for a dozen. This translates to 50 cents per ORGANIC egg from hen that was running free on the grass enjoying sun and fresh air. One such egg fed to a kid would provide GIGANTIC amount of nutrients, already taking care of big part of the tray. Now imagine how much cheaper this egg would be if it were purchase by school directly from the farmer who could raise those chicken for eggs for specific use. I bet the price would go down to 25c.

And we are just getting started..

Second, you seem to think that buying less corporate food, buying local food, and hiring cooks to cook it is cheaper. It isn't.

Well, so far you have proven nothing. Hopefully you will do better...

The mass produced foods are designed to be heated/reheated rather than cooked.

Yes of course it is, because this is an old outdated system based on junk food eating style of the 50's when frozen food dominated the entire population not just the schools. By now we all know this is not the ultimate goal to have food that is frozen for ages, loose most nutrients in freezing and storing and the rest is killed in reheating. We are talking KIDS here, not occassional junk food treat but DAILIY LUNCHES!

There are many schools across the US that have no kitchens or very limited kitchens without a lot of equipment to cook.

But of course, no argument here. If you wanted to eradicate the ability of schools to be independent food-wise, wouldn't it be where you wood start? Take away the kitchens! But this is easy fix, we can put them back in and they would pay for themselves in no time!
With all the global energy saved on insane cross country transportation, freezing and storing the foods kids can not swallow.
As for that "lot of equipment to cook" You heavily exaggerate. But we both know by now that this is your strenght.

Additionally, cooks are far more expensive to hire than many kitchen workers.

Oh, I could not ask Santa for better early Christmas gif then this argument that is trying my intelligence....
Okay so here is for you some info to bring it home:

Here is a National Salary of a Lunch Lady for you:
$26,980
National Average Lunch Lady Salary

Here on the other hand is a Salary of a Cook in Colombia Maryland per Ziprecruter:
$27,804 /year

I hope you do agree that you either failed to run the data or you were misled by someone to think that there is such a gigantic salary disparity. There isn't. I am sure that most agree that one thousand dollars in a yearly salary can not be considered "far more expensive" .

Additionally, nationwide there are many school districts that are struggling to provide adequate supplies for actual education, including books, writing materials, computers, and qualified teachers to teach them and you expect these school districts to find MORE money to provide food?

That is an argument for another rainy day but if you ask me, it is mind buggling that goverment does not provide more opportunities to private sector to make charitable contribution to help public schools.

But back to Earth.. We are talking at this point to take the same money we buy frozen junk food to feed kids and try to found with this a local farm food BECAUSE European and other countries show us it is doable and they are on shoe string budget. They can do it so can we.

Additionally, in some parts of the country, the availability of local farms is far lower.

Where is the problem there is a solution, a new demand would result in new opportunities for people to produce food closer to school. It is not a rocket science, you don't need super fertile fields to make a great crop of veggies in the tents in ANY given urban or non urban area. If you build them.. they will come.. if you let them.. they will build.. if you order.. they will grow it.


Plus, you often cannot guarantee the output volume from local farms to guarantee the volume of food that locally source farms can provide.

Oh, Goodness... it must have been raining when you were born. You are such a downer. Look at your local Whole Foods.. how they manage to keep their shelves full of local farm products? That's how.. you plan for it, and you use what is in season.

I remember a restaurant that I used to go to in Pennsylvania that cooked food from locally source farms. Some weeks, the produce was plentiful and the meals were great. But many weeks, the food was limited in what was provided and the restaurant had to have alternative sources to guarantee that they could stay in business and have food for all of their patrons every day the restaurant was open. Now, this was a small restaurant that had seating for about 50 people or so. Imagine trying to scale that to mid-sized

Let me unpack this for you..

1. If you still remember it.. that must be a very long time ago, farm to table process changed a lot since you were there and if you are not aware then do visit local farmers market. You would be surprised of how demand drives supply. That is all to it. No wonder this sad isolated restaurant could not provide food on regular basis since their demands was tinny.. as you stated, but if you have regular consistent demands YOU BUILD AROUND IT! You don't bend the schools to crappy food, you bend the great food to school needs!

2. Yes, I can imagine to feed lairage scale populations of school in this way because again, you focus on the problem and I focus on the solution this is where we differ. If it were for people like you we all would still run after Woolley Mammoth because you would keep yelling, it is too dangerous to make a wheel! The cart will goo too fast! and all the stuff will fall off!!!

PP you obviously come from privilege.

No, I don't. I simply were thought critical thinking and I can eat propaganda for breakfast and spit it right out. I can tell one when I can see one PP.

However, I not only think you came form privilege's but you continue enjoying it so much in the most unhealthy way because not only you are clearly a top feeder, but you also want to makes sure that all the underprivileged public school kids continue eating the crap.
Do you realize that for most of those children their daily lunch is the only full meal they eat through he day? Think about all the immigrant kids, think about all lower income families kids.. think about all of those who can not simply afford private school and their yummy nutritious food.

You flashing an imaginary privilege's card in front of me only show that you would use any sucked out of the thumb argument to make me look bad to win the argument .. if not fair and square, then in a dirty way.

Your demagogy is poor and argumentation is weak. I just hope that you don't do that for living.




I think we covered already your low ball arguments that are ad hominem fishing expeditions so we can give this one a rest.




ON the contrary, we need to start with assessing the REAL needs of real living breathing children and find the way to feed them REAL food, not to keep wondering how else we can cut nutrients from their food. We need to fix the system so it works, not keep pushing the square peg through the round hole. We can easily either make the hole bigger or cut the pegs corner. Think OUTSIDE THE PEG!

Howard County is small and serves about 57K students. I can't see that a school system like Montgomery County, with 163K students being able to feed all students from locally sourced farms 5 days a week.

See?.. you are starting to finding solutions yourself even if you obviously don't want to.. apparently the size of the MOCO is a problem that nobody wants to fix, so perhaps we start there.. why didn't you say it in the first place.. you should say.. oh we need to divide MOCO in smaller districts. NO you just see the problem and run away from it.. not how you fix anything in life.

You really think that locally source MD farms can produce enough to supply 205 schools enough food to make 163K meals twice per day? That's a lot to expect from local farms.

Again, I hope that your math is better then the reasoning... so let's try..

If you think that at this point we don't have enough infrastructure nearby to provide functional farm to table process for the local school .. how about for the time being we provide GIGANTIC boost to the farming nearby. If you ever took a scenic drive via Shenandoah Valley you must have seen that this is like a Fertile Crescent of the East Coast.. California of the East... you name it..

anyway.. do you think that we could not for now simply bring stuff from there. I don't know from the top of my head how far it is
so I had to google it. Apparently it is about 2.5 half hour away. You show me a lettuce or an egg or a cheese or a plum or an apple that will NOT survive this kind of transport... This fabulous location of the whole farm country so close make us sitting on the gold mine
of a healthy food! Argue that? anytime...


For your viewing pleasures: Distance from the VAlley to Montgomery County:




[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/i0CwIecZrDpwUJEMMSNRixM54rs2PyFA-XEyxrDJGxM9tMq3IPYo2CEgtea5ca33AaZcYf7KUF3HUhqIVAn61gGkU5LKvMS9inpWyorydc17HTq9kAjbV9gAxtwoS6ObBgoIGQMmWU8vw1weroVPjyQONZ6szQ=w408-h270-k-no
[/img]

[Anonymous]

Autocorrect flipped me .. should be demagoguery not demagogy.. ugh...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have the options to send a lunch to school with your kid's. I send Bento boxes with healthy fare for my girl's.

That’s great, but your misuse of apostrophes is out of control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the options to send a lunch to school with your kid's. I send Bento boxes with healthy fare for my girl's.

That’s great, but your misuse of apostrophes is out of control.

To the first poster above: That's wonderful, but now make 150K more of them because you know, not every parent can afford this kind of luxury right?

To the second poster: Why don't you focus on what the other poster intended to say? If you can not figure out that then it badly reflects on your own education.
Also.. all I have to say is.. I am sure you are not related to Immanuel Kant, German philosopher as you probably would be bit more ethical. Yet, you seem to be related for some reason...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the options to send a lunch to school with your kid's. I send Bento boxes with healthy fare for my girl's.

That’s great, but your misuse of apostrophes is out of control.

To the first poster above: That's wonderful, but now make 150K more of them because you know, not every parent can afford this kind of luxury right?

To the second poster: Why don't you focus on what the other poster intended to say? If you can not figure out that then it badly reflects on your own education.
Also.. all I have to say is.. I am sure you are not related to Immanuel Kant, German philosopher as you probably would be bit more ethical. Yet, you seem to be related for some reason...

Yes, the school lunch program is intended to serve predominantly kids who qualify for free and reduced price lunch, in case you did not know that.

[Anonymous]

People say vegetarianism is pushing other people's views. You do realize that all of the crap that they serve in schools, and all of the lax nutritional guidelines, are shaped by big food companies who want to sell meat, dairy, and processed crap to the USDA and schools, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been to a feed lot and it is NOT SANITARY. I can’t eat beef after that. Chicken is fine though.

Have you been to a farm that grows your vegetables? Guess what? That happens outside, where birds poop and deer poop. Then they get picked by people with dirt on their hands. Then they go into dirty boxes and bins to be shipped to a store where a bunch of people with e. coli on their hands pick them up to look at them. So, before you eat them, you should wash them. And before you eat beef, you should cook it. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People say vegetarianism is pushing other people's views. You do realize that all of the crap that they serve in schools, and all of the lax nutritional guidelines, are shaped by big food companies who want to sell meat, dairy, and processed crap to the USDA and schools, right?

There is politics on both sides, vegetarians and meat eaters. The problem is that kids need balanced diet and neither vegetarian diet or corporate ersatz at this point provides it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been to a feed lot and it is NOT SANITARY. I can’t eat beef after that. Chicken is fine though.

Have you been to a farm that grows your vegetables? Guess what? That happens outside, where birds poop and deer poop. Then they get picked by people with dirt on their hands. Then they go into dirty boxes and bins to be shipped to a store where a bunch of people with e. coli on their hands pick them up to look at them. So, before you eat them, you should wash them. And before you eat beef, you should cook it. Problem solved.

Okay you two...

First of all... EVERY single things that grows.. be it a plant or an animal, uses organic matter that comes from DEAD animals and plants, and is watered by water that run through every possible rotten Caracas and dead animal out there, not to be gross but to bring the actual reality into the picture.

If you think that you avoid contact with meat by eating vegan or vegetarian.. think again, water run through animals, been peed out, fish made sex in it and now you drink it. So much about purism.

And if you the first PP visited feed lots, now time for you to visit chicken farm to complete your diet. Unless you go to pretty farm where hens run free, you would be shokidified. Just google chickens dead in cages mixed with live chickens etc..

It is a very noble thing not to kill animals so lets push for more healthy organic vegetables to be available for our school kids and then we can
lay off meat. Corporate frozen food is not an option.