Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if others have mentioned it, but William and Mary offers a fun program w St Andrews where you split your time between the 2 schools.

I only have an anecdote but a former colleague's DS did it and ended up flunking out, not enough cohesion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

I'm from the UK and agree with all of this, except that I wouldn't say it's seen as a top 10 uni. It's not Russell Group and certainly in my school, it was somewhere you would go if you couldn't get into a Russell Group uni. I'm baffled by any ranking that puts it at the top! For an American, though, probably it's an advantage that people have heard of it as I sense that more people know it than know say, Bristol University.

+1 another Brit here and also agree. St. Andrews was considered a bit of a joke for the not very bright "hooray henrys" coming from posh schools and wealthy families but not really having a lot of brain cells. Compounded by William Windsor's attendance but then that also made it very popular...so

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

My DD is at Oxford. They definitely look down on St Andrews.

Who is “they?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

I'm from the UK and agree with all of this, except that I wouldn't say it's seen as a top 10 uni. It's not Russell Group and certainly in my school, it was somewhere you would go if you couldn't get into a Russell Group uni. I'm baffled by any ranking that puts it at the top! For an American, though, probably it's an advantage that people have heard of it as I sense that more people know it than know say, Bristol University.

+1 another Brit here and also agree. St. Andrews was considered a bit of a joke for the not very bright "hooray henrys" coming from posh schools and wealthy families but not really having a lot of brain cells. Compounded by William Windsor's attendance but then that also made it very popular...so

I lived in the UK for many years. Completely agree. There are many more that are considered better unis…. UCL, Durham, even Bath, Warwick, are considered better. But Americans have never heard of them so if a kid can’t get into Oxbridge or LSE, it’s St Andrews. Which is the equivalent of Penn State honestly in that is has name recognition by the average homosapien, but that doesn’t mean its a good education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

I'm from the UK and agree with all of this, except that I wouldn't say it's seen as a top 10 uni. It's not Russell Group and certainly in my school, it was somewhere you would go if you couldn't get into a Russell Group uni. I'm baffled by any ranking that puts it at the top! For an American, though, probably it's an advantage that people have heard of it as I sense that more people know it than know say, Bristol University.

+1 another Brit here and also agree. St. Andrews was considered a bit of a joke for the not very bright "hooray henrys" coming from posh schools and wealthy families but not really having a lot of brain cells. Compounded by William Windsor's attendance but then that also made it very popular...so

I lived in the UK for many years. Completely agree. There are many more that are considered better unis…. UCL, Durham, even Bath, Warwick, are considered better. But Americans have never heard of them so if a kid can’t get into Oxbridge or LSE, it’s St Andrews. Which is the equivalent of Penn State honestly in that is has name recognition by the average homosapien, but that doesn’t mean its a good education.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

My DD is at Oxford. They definitely look down on St Andrews.

Who is “they?”

Anyone who attends Oxbridge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD attends and says she can't imagine getting a better quality of education. Having said that, it's been challenging with 95% of classes still online, and there's a huge problem with a lack of housing. Anecdotally, there are many students who still don't have confirmed housing for next year. There seem to be a lot of really insanely wealthy students who attend (and can buy flats or houses in town at ridiculous prices) but there are kids of all shapes and sizes. DD loves it.

I don't know what course your daughter is doing, but 95% of classes online is wrong. Almost all classes are in person for most subjects, only some large lectures online.

Tell DD to keep her eyes out, but don't stress too much. Housing will come up especially before summer. I've never heard of anyone not having somewhere to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did my masters there in International Relations. Great program and close knit student body. It is a small town and the university community is even smaller so that works for some but not for others. Good number of Americans there and other international students— I left with good friends all over the world. As an American you can fit in anywhere (ie the class divide there between the British students is quite real, which was very different for me, but Americans can slot in anywhere). I enjoyed the more in depth study of material versus the more broad American system. Would definitely recommend visiting to get a feel given the small size of the town.

To add on to my post above, social life is very different than US universities— ie dinner parties, bars, and charity balls versus house parties with kegs. One is not better than the other— just different.

I was going to comment. There's lots of drinking in the UK, and the drinking age is lower.

and there's very little drinking on US college campuses. rarely do we hear about keg parties and the like, or that students on US campuses binge drink or anything like that

seriously, the issue is that in the UK, college age drinking is legal; in the US it is illegal (except for Louisiana, where the legal drinking age is 18)

I’m not sure if you are trying to argue that because it’s lower the brits are more responsible or the reverse. What I can tell you from my Oxford’s kid’s experience is that the drinking culture is huge there, much much worse than her experience at UVA for undergrad

I went to a British university. British students drink a LOT. To the extent that most of the other nationalities in Europe would rather hang out with each other or Americans. They will drink to the point where they are throwing up or getting in bar fights. They do this thing could drinking in rounds where everyone in the group orders a round of pints for everyone else’s. So if you are out it’s five wool that’s five pints each. It’s expensive and excessive.

Hmm, having lived on both sides of the pond, I think your characterisation of UK drinking culture is wrong. The UK drinking culture is a lot, but it's more controlled, above ground in pubs and venues where there are more watchful eyes—rather than in fraternity basements with kegs, or underage getting as drunk as they can in dorms etc. UK drinking age is 18, so kids are more used to drinking and its less of a forbidden fruit to be binged. Also, in the UK, you're not going to be driving to/from venues. Much less risk of drunk driving compared to in the US.

In a town like St Andrews, your kids will be super safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

I'm from the UK and agree with all of this, except that I wouldn't say it's seen as a top 10 uni. It's not Russell Group and certainly in my school, it was somewhere you would go if you couldn't get into a Russell Group uni. I'm baffled by any ranking that puts it at the top! For an American, though, probably it's an advantage that people have heard of it as I sense that more people know it than know say, Bristol University.

+1 another Brit here and also agree. St. Andrews was considered a bit of a joke for the not very bright "hooray henrys" coming from posh schools and wealthy families but not really having a lot of brain cells. Compounded by William Windsor's attendance but then that also made it very popular...so

I lived in the UK for many years. Completely agree. There are many more that are considered better unis…. UCL, Durham, even Bath, Warwick, are considered better. But Americans have never heard of them so if a kid can’t get into Oxbridge or LSE, it’s St Andrews. Which is the equivalent of Penn State honestly in that is has name recognition by the average homosapien, but that doesn’t mean its a good education.

When were you in the UK? You may have missed the St Andrews massive expansion and rankings rise. 3k to 10k students, more research, faculty etc—all since the 1990s. The rankings rise is since the 2000s, but St Andrews has the highest standards in the UK besides oxbridge, not Durham, UCL, Bath etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if others have mentioned it, but William and Mary offers a fun program w St Andrews where you split your time between the 2 schools.

How competitive is this?

Are there a lot of applicants for the 5 spots?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

I'm from the UK and agree with all of this, except that I wouldn't say it's seen as a top 10 uni. It's not Russell Group and certainly in my school, it was somewhere you would go if you couldn't get into a Russell Group uni. I'm baffled by any ranking that puts it at the top! For an American, though, probably it's an advantage that people have heard of it as I sense that more people know it than know say, Bristol University.

+1 another Brit here and also agree. St. Andrews was considered a bit of a joke for the not very bright "hooray henrys" coming from posh schools and wealthy families but not really having a lot of brain cells. Compounded by William Windsor's attendance but then that also made it very popular...so

I lived in the UK for many years. Completely agree. There are many more that are considered better unis…. UCL, Durham, even Bath, Warwick, are considered better. But Americans have never heard of them so if a kid can’t get into Oxbridge or LSE, it’s St Andrews. Which is the equivalent of Penn State honestly in that is has name recognition by the average homosapien, but that doesn’t mean its a good education.

St Andrews is great at setting up study abroad with American schools, particularly those who enroll kids from the kind of UMC and UC families who they want students from. It's great marketing if an older sibling spent a semester there or if the kid down the street wears St Andrew's hoodie. Meanwhile, no American has ever heard of the University of Manchester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is very beautiful, very cold, and very isolated. I think it would be a great place for a year abroad, or a 1-2-year Master's program, but a major commitment for the full four years. That said, visit this summer if you can and see what you think. The education is excellent and the Scottish system is a nice compromise between the English 3-year BA and the US system. They have been recruiting US students for at least 40 years, so it's a well-trod path back and forth.

My Scottish family has a vacation home there, and I get bored visiting after 2-3 days. Especially if the weather is bad, there's not much to do after that. I assume having friends to go to the pub with would help, but I would rather be in Glasgow or Edinburgh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi My DC is OBSESSED with St Andrew's in Scotland, based on pictures online, the website and anecdotal info. He is a junior so we have a little time. Hopefully, maybe we can visit it things calm down with Covid.

Can you tell me the good, the bad, the ugly, the unexpected etc. THANKS!

Not sure why you can't visit, been to Europe including the UK 5 times this year, life is moving on...take the trip, you won't regret it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did my masters there in International Relations. Great program and close knit student body. It is a small town and the university community is even smaller so that works for some but not for others. Good number of Americans there and other international students— I left with good friends all over the world. As an American you can fit in anywhere (ie the class divide there between the British students is quite real, which was very different for me, but Americans can slot in anywhere). I enjoyed the more in depth study of material versus the more broad American system. Would definitely recommend visiting to get a feel given the small size of the town.

To add on to my post above, social life is very different than US universities— ie dinner parties, bars, and charity balls versus house parties with kegs. One is not better than the other— just different.

I was going to comment. There's lots of drinking in the UK, and the drinking age is lower.

and there's very little drinking on US college campuses. rarely do we hear about keg parties and the like, or that students on US campuses binge drink or anything like that

seriously, the issue is that in the UK, college age drinking is legal; in the US it is illegal (except for Louisiana, where the legal drinking age is 18)

I’m not sure if you are trying to argue that because it’s lower the brits are more responsible or the reverse. What I can tell you from my Oxford’s kid’s experience is that the drinking culture is huge there, much much worse than her experience at UVA for undergrad

I went to a British university. British students drink a LOT. To the extent that most of the other nationalities in Europe would rather hang out with each other or Americans. They will drink to the point where they are throwing up or getting in bar fights. They do this thing could drinking in rounds where everyone in the group orders a round of pints for everyone else’s. So if you are out it’s five wool that’s five pints each. It’s expensive and excessive.

Hmm, having lived on both sides of the pond, I think your characterisation of UK drinking culture is wrong. The UK drinking culture is a lot, but it's more controlled, above ground in pubs and venues where there are more watchful eyes—rather than in fraternity basements with kegs, or underage getting as drunk as they can in dorms etc. UK drinking age is 18, so kids are more used to drinking and its less of a forbidden fruit to be binged. Also, in the UK, you're not going to be driving to/from venues. Much less risk of drunk driving compared to in the US.

In a town like St Andrews, your kids will be super safe.

Just remember to duck if you hear someone yell "Fore".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

I'm from the UK and agree with all of this, except that I wouldn't say it's seen as a top 10 uni. It's not Russell Group and certainly in my school, it was somewhere you would go if you couldn't get into a Russell Group uni. I'm baffled by any ranking that puts it at the top! For an American, though, probably it's an advantage that people have heard of it as I sense that more people know it than know say, Bristol University.

+1 another Brit here and also agree. St. Andrews was considered a bit of a joke for the not very bright "hooray henrys" coming from posh schools and wealthy families but not really having a lot of brain cells. Compounded by William Windsor's attendance but then that also made it very popular...so

I lived in the UK for many years. Completely agree. There are many more that are considered better unis…. UCL, Durham, even Bath, Warwick, are considered better. But Americans have never heard of them so if a kid can’t get into Oxbridge or LSE, it’s St Andrews. Which is the equivalent of Penn State honestly in that is has name recognition by the average homosapien, but that doesn’t mean its a good education.

When were you in the UK? You may have missed the St Andrews massive expansion and rankings rise. 3k to 10k students, more research, faculty etc—all since the 1990s. The rankings rise is since the 2000s, but St Andrews has the highest standards in the UK besides oxbridge, not Durham, UCL, Bath etc.

I came back spring of last year. lived there for five years. So yup I was there PP had a spouse who taught A levels and supported the UCAS application process for students ... not One child in my DCs international school applied to St. Andrews… Kings College, Durham, Loughborough, Edinborough, Oxbridge,Exeter even….. your claims are delusional … but I’m sure you believe them to be true.