Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

I'm from the UK and agree with all of this, except that I wouldn't say it's seen as a top 10 uni. It's not Russell Group and certainly in my school, it was somewhere you would go if you couldn't get into a Russell Group uni. I'm baffled by any ranking that puts it at the top! For an American, though, probably it's an advantage that people have heard of it as I sense that more people know it than know say, Bristol University.

+1 another Brit here and also agree. St. Andrews was considered a bit of a joke for the not very bright "hooray henrys" coming from posh schools and wealthy families but not really having a lot of brain cells. Compounded by William Windsor's attendance but then that also made it very popular...so

I lived in the UK for many years. Completely agree. There are many more that are considered better unis…. UCL, Durham, even Bath, Warwick, are considered better. But Americans have never heard of them so if a kid can’t get into Oxbridge or LSE, it’s St Andrews. Which is the equivalent of Penn State honestly in that is has name recognition by the average homosapien, but that doesn’t mean its a good education.

When were you in the UK? You may have missed the St Andrews massive expansion and rankings rise. 3k to 10k students, more research, faculty etc—all since the 1990s. The rankings rise is since the 2000s, but St Andrews has the highest standards in the UK besides oxbridge, not Durham, UCL, Bath etc.

I came back spring of last year. lived there for five years. So yup I was there PP had a spouse who taught A levels and supported the UCAS application process for students ... not One child in my DCs international school applied to St. Andrews… Kings College, Durham, Loughborough, Edinborough, Oxbridge,Exeter even….. your claims are delusional … but I’m sure you believe them to be true.

I don't think PP is delusional. No matter which UK university ranking table you use, St. Andrews ranks within the top 5 overall, and has one of the highest entry standards and UCAS tariffs in the UK.

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?tabletype=full-table&sortby=entry-standards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The St Andrews boosters on this site are out of their mind. StA would be LUCKY to be considered a top 50 or top 75 school in the US.

Based on your informed judgement???

It’s QS ranking is 91. It’s right around the ranking of Texas or UIUC or Washington.

[Anonymous]

I think PP was talking about UK universities, but if you want to use that ranking, St. Andrews ranks higher than: Rice, UNC Chapel Hill, WashU, USC, Emory, and Dartmouth, among others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews has a strange reputation in the UK. I grew up in Scotland and went to a strong academic high school. I don’t know anyone from my school who applied there. The top students tried for Oxbridge, Edinburgh or Imperial Collage. That said, I had an old English friend who was very excited to go there. It’s almost as if it was outside the Scottish university system, and was seen as a place for English ‘Oxbridge rejects’ (public - in the British sense - school kids who couldn’t get into Oxbridge and who applied to other universities deemed prestigious). The fact that it was in this category puts amongst a strong peer group (Durham, Bristol, etc). Take this with a large pinch of salt, as I left high school 30 years ago, and it’s possible that it’s reputation has improved significantly, but I would still say that it’s seen in the UK as a significant step down from Oxford and Cambridge (everywhere is in reputation terms), and in Scotland as below Edinburgh, but it’s seen as a top 10 uni.

I'm from the UK and agree with all of this, except that I wouldn't say it's seen as a top 10 uni. It's not Russell Group and certainly in my school, it was somewhere you would go if you couldn't get into a Russell Group uni. I'm baffled by any ranking that puts it at the top! For an American, though, probably it's an advantage that people have heard of it as I sense that more people know it than know say, Bristol University.

+1 another Brit here and also agree. St. Andrews was considered a bit of a joke for the not very bright "hooray henrys" coming from posh schools and wealthy families but not really having a lot of brain cells. Compounded by William Windsor's attendance but then that also made it very popular...so

I lived in the UK for many years. Completely agree. There are many more that are considered better unis…. UCL, Durham, even Bath, Warwick, are considered better. But Americans have never heard of them so if a kid can’t get into Oxbridge or LSE, it’s St Andrews. Which is the equivalent of Penn State honestly in that is has name recognition by the average homosapien, but that doesn’t mean its a good education.

When were you in the UK? You may have missed the St Andrews massive expansion and rankings rise. 3k to 10k students, more research, faculty etc—all since the 1990s. The rankings rise is since the 2000s, but St Andrews has the highest standards in the UK besides oxbridge, not Durham, UCL, Bath etc.

I came back spring of last year. lived there for five years. So yup I was there PP had a spouse who taught A levels and supported the UCAS application process for students ... not One child in my DCs international school applied to St. Andrews… Kings College, Durham, Loughborough, Edinborough, Oxbridge,Exeter even….. your claims are delusional … but I’m sure you believe them to be true.

Amazing anecdote! but all the rankings, the UCAS entry standards, and student satisfaction levels re St Andrews tell a different story

[Anonymous]

Hi OP Here thanks for all the replies. We did end up visiting and my kid REALLY REALLY loved it in person. We spoke with American kids there that are loving their experience. The tour was fantastic and the admissions office was welcoming.
I think the prestige factor arguments go both ways- some people will swear up and down it's the equivalent of Brown in terms of difficulty to get in...then other will say it's just for posh aristocrats. Whatever the truth is, it has the best US name recognition after Oxford and Cambridge if my kid comes back the US, that's a factor. Our kid is definitely applying...now he just has to get in...and it's getting harder and harder as the US university admissions craziness amplifies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP Here thanks for all the replies. We did end up visiting and my kid REALLY REALLY loved it in person. We spoke with American kids there that are loving their experience. The tour was fantastic and the admissions office was welcoming.
I think the prestige factor arguments go both ways- some people will swear up and down it's the equivalent of Brown in terms of difficulty to get in...then other will say it's just for posh aristocrats. Whatever the truth is, it has the best US name recognition after Oxford and Cambridge if my kid comes back the US, that's a factor. Our kid is definitely applying...now he just has to get in...and it's getting harder and harder as the US university admissions craziness amplifies.

I can promise you St Andrews is not all that. Even in the US, it barely has any name recognition. Those who are aware of it widely consider it the type of place rich families send their kids if they don't have the chops to get into a top school stateside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP Here thanks for all the replies. We did end up visiting and my kid REALLY REALLY loved it in person. We spoke with American kids there that are loving their experience. The tour was fantastic and the admissions office was welcoming.
I think the prestige factor arguments go both ways- some people will swear up and down it's the equivalent of Brown in terms of difficulty to get in...then other will say it's just for posh aristocrats. Whatever the truth is, it has the best US name recognition after Oxford and Cambridge if my kid comes back the US, that's a factor. Our kid is definitely applying...now he just has to get in...and it's getting harder and harder as the US university admissions craziness amplifies.

I can promise you St Andrews is not all that. Even in the US, it barely has any name recognition. Those who are aware of it widely consider it the type of place rich families send their kids if they don't have the chops to get into a top school stateside.

+1. Brits and Americans know it’s a finishing school for rich American kids.

[Anonymous]

How can you promise that? So every meaningful indicator that shows that St Andrews is, in fact, a top UK school is incorrect? And USNWR rankings they show WashU and Emory and Vanderbilt are T20 schools are bible truth but all other data is meaningless? Good to know. DCUM, you never disappoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can you promise that? So every meaningful indicator that shows that St Andrews is, in fact, a top UK school is incorrect? And USNWR rankings they show WashU and Emory and Vanderbilt are T20 schools are bible truth but all other data is meaningless? Good to know. DCUM, you never disappoint.

We are trying to warn you, St. Andrews mom, that the prestige factor is not what you think but you don’t want to hear that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you promise that? So every meaningful indicator that shows that St Andrews is, in fact, a top UK school is incorrect? And USNWR rankings they show WashU and Emory and Vanderbilt are T20 schools are bible truth but all other data is meaningless? Good to know. DCUM, you never disappoint.

We are trying to warn you, St. Andrews mom, that the prestige factor is not what you think but you don’t want to hear that.

It’s a great school. Not sure why you want to steer her away. Even kids in big 3 schools here apply and go every year.

[Anonymous]

I love the attempt at comaprisons. No one with an acceptance to Vandy, Emory, or Brown is picking St. Andrews over them. No One.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can you promise that? So every meaningful indicator that shows that St Andrews is, in fact, a top UK school is incorrect? And USNWR rankings they show WashU and Emory and Vanderbilt are T20 schools are bible truth but all other data is meaningless? Good to know. DCUM, you never disappoint.

Even Brits themselves are not impressed with St Andrews, unless they happen to be fans of the royal family (and the types of people who obsess about the royal family do not exactly have a good rep to begin with). I'm being serious.

[Anonymous]

Yeah OP went all the way to Scotland and only talked to Americans.
Take a rando poll at Heathrow OP and you'll get a more complete picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP Here thanks for all the replies. We did end up visiting and my kid REALLY REALLY loved it in person. We spoke with American kids there that are loving their experience. The tour was fantastic and the admissions office was welcoming.
I think the prestige factor arguments go both ways- some people will swear up and down it's the equivalent of Brown in terms of difficulty to get in...then other will say it's just for posh aristocrats. Whatever the truth is, it has the best US name recognition after Oxford and Cambridge if my kid comes back the US, that's a factor. Our kid is definitely applying...now he just has to get in...and it's getting harder and harder as the US university admissions craziness amplifies.

??? The British schools with the best US name recognition after Oxford and Cambridge are LSE, UCL and Imperial. Maybe Edinburgh, even. And the types of people who would be familiar with St Andrews (i.e. hiring managers) would definitely know. If you like St Andrews, that's great, but it certainly does not carry the prestige that you think it does. It would be the equivalent of a top 40 or 50 school in the US --- still good, of course, but the "prestige" factor here is being way overplayed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP Here thanks for all the replies. We did end up visiting and my kid REALLY REALLY loved it in person. We spoke with American kids there that are loving their experience. The tour was fantastic and the admissions office was welcoming.
I think the prestige factor arguments go both ways- some people will swear up and down it's the equivalent of Brown in terms of difficulty to get in...then other will say it's just for posh aristocrats. Whatever the truth is, it has the best US name recognition after Oxford and Cambridge if my kid comes back the US, that's a factor. Our kid is definitely applying...now he just has to get in...and it's getting harder and harder as the US university admissions craziness amplifies.

??? The British schools with the best US name recognition after Oxford and Cambridge are LSE, UCL and Imperial. Maybe Edinburgh, even. And the types of people who would be familiar with St Andrews (i.e. hiring managers) would definitely know. If you like St Andrews, that's great, but it certainly does not carry the prestige that you think it does. It would be the equivalent of a top 40 or 50 school in the US --- still good, of course, but the "prestige" factor here is being way overplayed.

Most American hiring mgrs would know that LSE is also not elite