Referees: Ask Us Anything

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would you agree that bigger, taller kids tend to get more fouls called against them, even if they are doing the exact same thing as smaller, shorter kids? My son is small and short, so he likely benefits, but his best friend is big and tall, and so this has been bothering me.

Yes, I believe they do and actually this is one of my talking points before games to address that just because a kid is bigger doesn't mean the foul is automatically against the bigger player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things that I struggle with.

There are obvious instances of players flopping for a call, especially a penalty or trying to draw a card. Do you not anticipate this and why not hand out more simulations?

How do you handle a missed call, especially one a major one that you've made and can't reverse?

I have seen referees get into more trouble doubling down on a bad call and letting the game get out of hand. I realize that you can't go back and fix the call. But they don't seem to realize the bad call has heightened the temperature of the game, especially with the team impacted.

Saw the worst example of this last week. Ref called a pass back to goalie that was not a pass back. Other team grabs the ball from the goalie and plays in into the net (I don't blame them) in the ensuing chaos. He runs over to the AR and then gives the goal.

Immediately, the game devolves. Instead of trying to calm the game, he just starts carding everyone on every sign of contact. Then sends off a kid for asking him a question and threatens to send off anyone else. Told everyone "you can't play the game without me." Finally he calls the game with 15 minutes and hightails it out to his car.

I don't want to dress the game you describe at the bottom - it sounds insane. But to your top two questions:

1. Flopping. The reality is, simulation isn't as common as you think, and very few kids can really pull it off. You may feel something was simulation because there was no contact or it wasn't (in your option) enough, or the defender "got the ball". By the laws of the game, the fact that a defender gets the ball, or that there was no contact doesn't mean there wasn't a foul. If a defender goes for the leg and the attacking player jumps over but then stumbles and falls, that's not simulation, that's a foul. Note that Law 12 very explicitly says "trips or attempts to trip". And yes, I recognize that there are times that a kid will simulate, but if it's a close call, you may see a ref call it based on the fact that the player has been committing multiple similar infractions. Remember, we can give a caution for "persistent offences", and there is no specific number of offenses to trigger that.

2. Bad/Missed calls. I've made them, every ref I know has made them. In general you try to just move on. I think trying to do a tit-for-tat always backfires. All you can do is try and not make any more mistakes. That said, we are human, and if we realize we blew a big call, and there's something that doesn't impact the safety of the players I am sure that refs might allow the team who was harmed by a bad call a smidge of leeway. I am not condoning it, nor should we as refs ever do it, but it probably happens subconciously.

I get not everything is simulation, but there are obvious instances where player seeks the slightest contact, especially in the box, and then goes flying as shoved by an offensive lineman. I've never seen that carded for simulation. The issue is also when similar contact happens on the opposite side and the kid doesn't dive and the call isn't given. Yeah, I know this sounds like sour grapes, but it is more just not being a fan of diving, especially when kids get older and learn how to bait referees. You can see it before it happens. I don't know why refs get so fooled.

Wasn't suggesting you make another bad call to help the other team. But if you've given a questionable penalty or a red card, how do you handle managing the game in the aftermath? This when i have seen so many games get out of hand because everyone is now emotionally charged. it's a very tough spot, especially for older games.

[Anonymous]

How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

A follow up no question is how to you deal with racist parents like this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

A follow up no question is how to you deal with racist parents like this one.

Its not racist if it truthfully occurs this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things that I struggle with.

There are obvious instances of players flopping for a call, especially a penalty or trying to draw a card. Do you not anticipate this and why not hand out more simulations?

How do you handle a missed call, especially one a major one that you've made and can't reverse?

I have seen referees get into more trouble doubling down on a bad call and letting the game get out of hand. I realize that you can't go back and fix the call. But they don't seem to realize the bad call has heightened the temperature of the game, especially with the team impacted.

Saw the worst example of this last week. Ref called a pass back to goalie that was not a pass back. Other team grabs the ball from the goalie and plays in into the net (I don't blame them) in the ensuing chaos. He runs over to the AR and then gives the goal.

Immediately, the game devolves. Instead of trying to calm the game, he just starts carding everyone on every sign of contact. Then sends off a kid for asking him a question and threatens to send off anyone else. Told everyone "you can't play the game without me." Finally he calls the game with 15 minutes and hightails it out to his car.

I don't want to dress the game you describe at the bottom - it sounds insane. But to your top two questions:

1. Flopping. The reality is, simulation isn't as common as you think, and very few kids can really pull it off. You may feel something was simulation because there was no contact or it wasn't (in your option) enough, or the defender "got the ball". By the laws of the game, the fact that a defender gets the ball, or that there was no contact doesn't mean there wasn't a foul. If a defender goes for the leg and the attacking player jumps over but then stumbles and falls, that's not simulation, that's a foul. Note that Law 12 very explicitly says "trips or attempts to trip". And yes, I recognize that there are times that a kid will simulate, but if it's a close call, you may see a ref call it based on the fact that the player has been committing multiple similar infractions. Remember, we can give a caution for "persistent offences", and there is no specific number of offenses to trigger that.

2. Bad/Missed calls. I've made them, every ref I know has made them. In general you try to just move on. I think trying to do a tit-for-tat always backfires. All you can do is try and not make any more mistakes. That said, we are human, and if we realize we blew a big call, and there's something that doesn't impact the safety of the players I am sure that refs might allow the team who was harmed by a bad call a smidge of leeway. I am not condoning it, nor should we as refs ever do it, but it probably happens subconciously.

I get not everything is simulation, but there are obvious instances where player seeks the slightest contact, especially in the box, and then goes flying as shoved by an offensive lineman. I've never seen that carded for simulation. The issue is also when similar contact happens on the opposite side and the kid doesn't dive and the call isn't given. Yeah, I know this sounds like sour grapes, but it is more just not being a fan of diving, especially when kids get older and learn how to bait referees. You can see it before it happens. I don't know why refs get so fooled.

Wasn't suggesting you make another bad call to help the other team. But if you've given a questionable penalty or a red card, how do you handle managing the game in the aftermath? This when i have seen so many games get out of hand because everyone is now emotionally charged. it's a very tough spot, especially for older games.

a bad red card or penalty without a make up is going to lead to a game getting out of hand. I bunch of amped up kids thinking they're playing the other team and the refs aren't going to play cleanly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

Yeah, because only non-English speakers do this kind of stuff....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

Yeah, because only non-English speakers do this kind of stuff....

That wasnt the question. The question was how is it dealt with when the accused hides behind a non English language. Which happens more than you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

Yeah, because only non-English speakers do this kind of stuff....

That wasnt the question. The question was how is it dealt with when the accused hides behind a non English language. Which happens more than you think.

You don’t let them play. We all know what you were implying.

[Anonymous]

What's the deal with boys playing on girls teams? DD's U15 team (NCSL) played against a team recently that had two boys playing on it. One of the parents on DD's team asked some of the parents from the other team if they were boys and was told "there's no rule that says they can't play on a girls team" (or something to that effect). Are there rules that govern this kind of thing? And if so, are they uniform across all of youth soccer or do they vary by league?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

A follow up no question is how to you deal with racist parents like this one.

Its not racist if it truthfully occurs this way.

It is racist but you will never see how racist you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

Yeah, because only non-English speakers do this kind of stuff....

That wasnt the question. The question was how is it dealt with when the accused hides behind a non English language. Which happens more than you think.

Not a ref but how would you know this is happening? Who are you to think you know the "real" age of a child? There are two absolutely huge, hulking kids on DC's team this year. I'm talking 2 heads taller than everyone else. They are white and they only speak English. How should we handle that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

A follow up no question is how to you deal with racist parents like this one.

Its not racist if it truthfully occurs this way.

Sure it is. Truth itself is a racist, white-privileged concept invented by white people to oppress other races.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you handle it when a kid is for sure too old? The team tries to pass him off as younger and uses lack of English language when confronted?

A follow up no question is how to you deal with racist parents like this one.

Its not racist if it truthfully occurs this way.

It is racist but you will never see how racist you are.

Not the op here. How is this racist if your not identifying a race? We can all agree English is the standard language used in Most youth soccer leagues. To pretend not to understand to avoid the accusation of cheating is to a degree racist as well. Whether your racist or not, majority or minority shouldn't have any effect on the written rules. People can be racist in their views and still follow the rules. As long as the rules aren't written racist and the referee isn't officiating the game racist there's no way you can bring racism into the equation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Ref here:

1. Reminder that most of us who Ref in the DMV are on multiple assignor lists. So the idea that leagues like NCLS or EDP or CCL have markedly different refs isn't true. HOWEVER, DA/GA/ECNL refs are generally better because either the assignor lets them know of availability early, or when multiple refs sign up, the assignor makes sure to assign the better refs. Frankly, when I have done AR for ECNL/DA, I have found the parents/players to be better about knowing the LotG, and I know I felt like I needed to be at my best as well.

2. Overweight men - in general, bad parents and coaches have made reffing so unpalatable that the only people willing to do it are men for whom the money is not the most important aspect.

3. There are absolutely some bad refs in the DMV. I have worked with them, and it's not enjoyable. But the reality is, every weekend we'll get a 2:00 am email from Tarey or another assignor with a dozen games that still need an AR or even a CR. So parents being crappy to refs means there is a ref shortage, which means the assignors have no choice but to give games to refs who everyone knows aren't great. Thing is, even the crappy refs know the LotG better than the vast vast vast majority of parents. But if you scare off the kids learning to ref, then you are left with weak refs. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I agree. It is not enjoyable working with bad referees. When the center is missing fouls, the ARs hear it from the parents. And here is the thing that a lot of parents don't understand. The center referee is in charge. Before each game, the referees meet and the center gives some instructions. Some say...call what you see. Some say...do not call a foul unless I feel down and I'm laying 340 yards from the play. Some say only call a foul if I make eye contact with you and make a motion that I'm looking for help. etc etc etc. So there are times I may see something that I might call a foul but the center is closer to the play than I am. I'm not raising my flag. There might be a handball that I would or wouldn't have called. The center is right there. I'm not raising my flag. However, I'm the one hearing it from all the parents...or the coach. One day the center told me...they are just kids. I'm not calling foul throws. I'll won't work with him. There are referees that can't run and don't get back on break aways, etc. I don't work with them anymore.

A thousand times this! if you have a CR that decides not to call something, there's really nothing an AR can do, so yelling at the AR is pointless. I was AR for a game where a kid 100% intentionally threw a throw-in at the face of an opposing player at close range. Kid goes down, eye is swelling almost instantly. By Law, it's a straight Red (Law 12, and supplemental information under Advice at 15.8). There's no question about the call, and yet the CR trots over to me and says "(kid) didn't mean it". No card, not even a caution. The parent whose kid got assaulted let me have it for much of the rest of the game and I just had to take it. I will never work with that CR again.

How do I find the supplemental advice? Do you have a link?