How can we force our school to reopen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools have been open in some states since August. So far, there is very little evidence of coronavirus spreading in schools.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/schools-arent-superspreaders/616669/

Looks like Princeton begs to differ:


https://www.princeton.edu/news/2020/09/30/largest-covid-19-contact-tracing-study-date-finds-children-key-spread-evidence

[Anonymous]

I’m in a midsize town in a midwestern state so grandparents can help with the kids (toddler and pre school age). Last week the big private school in the area that opened in September announced it is switching to full DL just as the public schools, which have been doing full DL, started phased reopening - hybrid/cohort model.

Nothing is working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is filing a lawsuit our only option? Looking for options, ideas.

At this rate, DC is going to be the last place in America to reopen schools even as we have among the smallest coronavirus caseloads in the country.

Back to OPs original question, I too would like to know what realistic options are. I feel so helpless. Voting Bowser out
is not a solution for the immediate future. What are the options for parents to make their voices heard in a unified manner?

Maybe someone could create an online petition and circulate it? I'd sign it.

Like the one sent around in July that had 80 signatures?

I think more people would sign it now. Also, this is the first that I've heard of a prior petition, so it might not have been circulated very well.

It was posted on this very site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to sue to:

-remove federally regulated FMLA
-remove federally regulated ADA accommodations
-repeal DC paid family leave
-force DCPS to hire new teachers to replace the ones they either fire when your first three lawsuits are successful or put on eligible leave status when your lawsuit is unsuccessful
-force people to take teaching jobs?
-or force people to become teachers?
(The last two have question marks bc I’m not sure what you’d be suing to ask for in terms of having staffing available to teach.)

Not a lawyer, but I’d say you definitely have a case here. When you are successful, it would definitely mean I go back to teaching in person!

No, you definitely are not a lawyer. Opening schools would not require repealing any of the laws you mentioned. That's not to say that I think a lawsuit would be successful, but not for the reasons you cite.

Ok, so maybe we disagree on “open the schools.” My building is open and people work there daily. So they are already open and no lawsuit is needed. OR, you want students back without teachers? If you want students back in class you need teachers to teach them. This is the only impediment and the only reason we can’t reopen. So yes, you would need to sue to force teachers back.

By your rationale, ALL workers could just stay home and claim FMLA/Family leave indefinitely. That's not how the law works.

It’s not indefinite but many teachers on this board are saying they have enough leave to not come back to classrooms this year. And the. They’ll quit.

I agree that Bowser and the Chancellor have flubbed this big time but if they’re in part trying not to lose what may be a large part of their workforce, it might be with good reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think a lawsuit is the way to go. Something like an open letter to Bowser and the Council that is published in the Post and online that is signed by 10 thousand families with students enrolled in that says - You must start prioritizing schools and education. Stop fooling around with bars and indoor dining and concerts. Do the work necessary and dedicate the funding necessary to meet the needs of our students.

I wish the editorial board of the Post would do that on their own.

I would not include a list of demands like the WTU keeps putting out there because it's very divisive and not productive.

The WTU's list of demands is designed to be impossible to meet so schools will stay closed. The last thing WTU wants is for schools to reopen.

They don’t need WTU’s permission to reopen. They may want their support but schools can open with or without union support. Teachers legally can’t strike so they would have to come back, take leave, or quit. So again, there’s the problem—staff entitled to make their own decisions using their legal provided leave.

Teachers need approval to take annual leave unless they're on FMLA, right? Even in regular times, teachers can't just say they're going on vacation for 3 weeks during the school year? How does their sick leave work? Do they need to provide medical documentation after x amount of days?

We don't have to take leave, there are plenty of families at every school who want DL. SO DCPS is trying to match those families to their school. But the issues is what if there's more people qualified for teaching DL than there are students??

You can't just say 'Nancy's diabetes is more of a concern than your husband's Jane.' It's not live every case will be obesity vs. cancer.

You could just not make DL a possibility for anyone but after teachers take their leave and use that all up for weeks, because they'd qualify for FMLA which I think is like 3 months, they'll just quit.

Then we'll have what 40-60% of teachers left? Ok, good luck having in person AFTER the pandemic then...especially high needs teachers like special education, math, and science.

Isn't it weird how pediatricians can take care of sick kids all day long, for months on end, with no problems, but if teachers step into a classroom, they will all die?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have family elsewhere whose kids have been in school every day for going on two months now. It's turned out to not be a big deal.

In DC, the teachers union won't let schools open until everyone is vaccinated, which probably won't happen until the end of next year (in the past couple days, two major vaccine trials have been halted because of safety concerns).

Schools in DC are going to end up being closed for more than a year longer than in other parts of the country. Your public school child is probably going to be in school for a full year less than a child of the same age living somewhere else in the country.

This would be astounding. A 10-year old in DC would be a full year behind a 10-year old going to private school, or going to public school in another state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to sue to:

-remove federally regulated FMLA
-remove federally regulated ADA accommodations
-repeal DC paid family leave
-force DCPS to hire new teachers to replace the ones they either fire when your first three lawsuits are successful or put on eligible leave status when your lawsuit is unsuccessful
-force people to take teaching jobs?
-or force people to become teachers?
(The last two have question marks bc I’m not sure what you’d be suing to ask for in terms of having staffing available to teach.)

Not a lawyer, but I’d say you definitely have a case here. When you are successful, it would definitely mean I go back to teaching in person!

No, you definitely are not a lawyer. Opening schools would not require repealing any of the laws you mentioned. That's not to say that I think a lawsuit would be successful, but not for the reasons you cite.

Ok, so maybe we disagree on “open the schools.” My building is open and people work there daily. So they are already open and no lawsuit is needed. OR, you want students back without teachers? If you want students back in class you need teachers to teach them. This is the only impediment and the only reason we can’t reopen. So yes, you would need to sue to force teachers back.

By your rationale, ALL workers could just stay home and claim FMLA/Family leave indefinitely. That's not how the law works.

It’s not indefinite but many teachers on this board are saying they have enough leave to not come back to classrooms this year. And the. They’ll quit.

I agree that Bowser and the Chancellor have flubbed this big time but if they’re in part trying not to lose what may be a large part of their workforce, it might be with good reason.

But they can't just take that leave unless they have FMLA, right? I guess they could get paid out for their annual leave when they quit, but then they have no jobs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think a lawsuit is the way to go. Something like an open letter to Bowser and the Council that is published in the Post and online that is signed by 10 thousand families with students enrolled in that says - You must start prioritizing schools and education. Stop fooling around with bars and indoor dining and concerts. Do the work necessary and dedicate the funding necessary to meet the needs of our students.

I wish the editorial board of the Post would do that on their own.

I would not include a list of demands like the WTU keeps putting out there because it's very divisive and not productive.

The WTU's list of demands is designed to be impossible to meet so schools will stay closed. The last thing WTU wants is for schools to reopen.

They don’t need WTU’s permission to reopen. They may want their support but schools can open with or without union support. Teachers legally can’t strike so they would have to come back, take leave, or quit. So again, there’s the problem—staff entitled to make their own decisions using their legal provided leave.

Teachers need approval to take annual leave unless they're on FMLA, right? Even in regular times, teachers can't just say they're going on vacation for 3 weeks during the school year? How does their sick leave work? Do they need to provide medical documentation after x amount of days?

We don't have to take leave, there are plenty of families at every school who want DL. SO DCPS is trying to match those families to their school. But the issues is what if there's more people qualified for teaching DL than there are students??

You can't just say 'Nancy's diabetes is more of a concern than your husband's Jane.' It's not live every case will be obesity vs. cancer.

You could just not make DL a possibility for anyone but after teachers take their leave and use that all up for weeks, because they'd qualify for FMLA which I think is like 3 months, they'll just quit.

Then we'll have what 40-60% of teachers left? Ok, good luck having in person AFTER the pandemic then...especially high needs teachers like special education, math, and science.

Isn't it weird how pediatricians can take care of sick kids all day long, for months on end, with no problems, but if teachers step into a classroom, they will all die?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are tons of lawsuits around the country on this. Some are parents trying to force schools to open. Some are teachers trying to force schools to close.

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2020/08/21/covid-19-school-reopening-battle-moves-to-the.html

Yes, but the PP claimed that lawsuits had "worked," presumably meaning forced a district to open against its will. That lawsuits have been filed is a very different thing.

We have friends (not in the DMV) whose school opened against its will in order to make a lawsuit go away.

I'm sure this would have been covered extensively in the press. Do you have a link? If not, what's the name of the city/town where this happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lawsuit will not open the schools. You can't "force" the schools to reopen. If you want them to reopen, contact the DC government and push them to accelerate the necessary upgrades to school HVAC systems, develop a plan for surveillance testing, explain the rules for how they will handle kids getting sick during the day, a student or teacher testing positive, a student's family member testing positive, a plan for the necessary supplies, etc. Suing the district won't help. Pushing the politicians will.

+1

I really want schools open but it won't happen until they actually put a viable plan for reopening in place. Right now their plan seems to be "Make it seem like we want to open schools, then blame teachers when it doesn't happen, thus avoiding any liability issues around Covid outbreaks in schools."

We need to hold elected officials accountable. I sincerely wish it were a mayoral election year because I am DONE with Bowser.

+2

It’s a really impressive trick that Bowser has managed to deflect attention from her total lack of leadership and accountability here. Bring the relevant parties to the table. Don’t send surveys. Don’t issue half-assed plans and then blame teachers, principals, parents, and staff—the very people you didn’t engage in developing the plans—when they point out the massive flaws.

Also...remind me again why restaurants are open for indoor dining and we’re piloting indoor concerts before schools are open?

This. She's got everyone blaming the teachers. If she had put forward a real plan, she might get some traction with that with me, but she hasn't. They put out PowerPoint slides and generic bullet points and then act surprised when the people who would have to implement them point out the holes and problems. Their half-assedness about this is infuriating.

Teachers are 100 percent the reason schools are closed. It's very Orwellian how teachers pretend they have nothing to do with this. Talk about gaslighting.

HOW MANY TEACHERS CAN SHOW UP? It's like people here can't think critically.

Has Bowser released how many teachers have taken leave, or have a valid reason they cannot teach in person?

Seriously...maybe we just don't have enough fairly young and healthy teachers...

Or maybe teachers should just stop being such selfish crybabies? And just put on a mask and go the fkc to work?

You don't teach your kid to tantrum like this right?

There is no group of people in our entire country of 300 million people that is having a bigger tantrum about having to go back to work than teachers. No one. Teachers want special treatment that no other profession gets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to sue to:

-remove federally regulated FMLA
-remove federally regulated ADA accommodations
-repeal DC paid family leave
-force DCPS to hire new teachers to replace the ones they either fire when your first three lawsuits are successful or put on eligible leave status when your lawsuit is unsuccessful
-force people to take teaching jobs?
-or force people to become teachers?
(The last two have question marks bc I’m not sure what you’d be suing to ask for in terms of having staffing available to teach.)

Not a lawyer, but I’d say you definitely have a case here. When you are successful, it would definitely mean I go back to teaching in person!

No, you definitely are not a lawyer. Opening schools would not require repealing any of the laws you mentioned. That's not to say that I think a lawsuit would be successful, but not for the reasons you cite.

Ok, so maybe we disagree on “open the schools.” My building is open and people work there daily. So they are already open and no lawsuit is needed. OR, you want students back without teachers? If you want students back in class you need teachers to teach them. This is the only impediment and the only reason we can’t reopen. So yes, you would need to sue to force teachers back.

By your rationale, ALL workers could just stay home and claim FMLA/Family leave indefinitely. That's not how the law works.

It’s not indefinite but many teachers on this board are saying they have enough leave to not come back to classrooms this year. And the. They’ll quit.

I agree that Bowser and the Chancellor have flubbed this big time but if they’re in part trying not to lose what may be a large part of their workforce, it might be with good reason.

But they can't just take that leave unless they have FMLA, right? I guess they could get paid out for their annual leave when they quit, but then they have no jobs?

In DC you can qualify for 16 weeks of medical FMLA and 16 weeks of family FMLA, to run consecutively for a total of 32 weeks. There are limitations to each, so this is only available to those who qualify for them, not just anyone who wants 32 weeks off. Without a qualified reason it’s leave without job protection so you could be fired I believe at any time. Oddly enough, doctors get the same legally entitled leave options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lawsuit will not open the schools. You can't "force" the schools to reopen. If you want them to reopen, contact the DC government and push them to accelerate the necessary upgrades to school HVAC systems, develop a plan for surveillance testing, explain the rules for how they will handle kids getting sick during the day, a student or teacher testing positive, a student's family member testing positive, a plan for the necessary supplies, etc. Suing the district won't help. Pushing the politicians will.

+1

I really want schools open but it won't happen until they actually put a viable plan for reopening in place. Right now their plan seems to be "Make it seem like we want to open schools, then blame teachers when it doesn't happen, thus avoiding any liability issues around Covid outbreaks in schools."

We need to hold elected officials accountable. I sincerely wish it were a mayoral election year because I am DONE with Bowser.

+2

It’s a really impressive trick that Bowser has managed to deflect attention from her total lack of leadership and accountability here. Bring the relevant parties to the table. Don’t send surveys. Don’t issue half-assed plans and then blame teachers, principals, parents, and staff—the very people you didn’t engage in developing the plans—when they point out the massive flaws.

Also...remind me again why restaurants are open for indoor dining and we’re piloting indoor concerts before schools are open?

This. She's got everyone blaming the teachers. If she had put forward a real plan, she might get some traction with that with me, but she hasn't. They put out PowerPoint slides and generic bullet points and then act surprised when the people who would have to implement them point out the holes and problems. Their half-assedness about this is infuriating.

Teachers are 100 percent the reason schools are closed. It's very Orwellian how teachers pretend they have nothing to do with this. Talk about gaslighting.

HOW MANY TEACHERS CAN SHOW UP? It's like people here can't think critically.

Has Bowser released how many teachers have taken leave, or have a valid reason they cannot teach in person?

Seriously...maybe we just don't have enough fairly young and healthy teachers...

Or maybe teachers should just stop being such selfish crybabies? And just put on a mask and go the fkc to work?

You don't teach your kid to tantrum like this right?

There is no group of people in our entire country of 300 million people that is having a bigger tantrum about having to go back to work than teachers. No one. Teachers want special treatment that no other profession gets.

Another tantrum is your reply? Really...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to sue to:

-remove federally regulated FMLA
-remove federally regulated ADA accommodations
-repeal DC paid family leave
-force DCPS to hire new teachers to replace the ones they either fire when your first three lawsuits are successful or put on eligible leave status when your lawsuit is unsuccessful
-force people to take teaching jobs?
-or force people to become teachers?
(The last two have question marks bc I’m not sure what you’d be suing to ask for in terms of having staffing available to teach.)

Not a lawyer, but I’d say you definitely have a case here. When you are successful, it would definitely mean I go back to teaching in person!

No, you definitely are not a lawyer. Opening schools would not require repealing any of the laws you mentioned. That's not to say that I think a lawsuit would be successful, but not for the reasons you cite.

Ok, so maybe we disagree on “open the schools.” My building is open and people work there daily. So they are already open and no lawsuit is needed. OR, you want students back without teachers? If you want students back in class you need teachers to teach them. This is the only impediment and the only reason we can’t reopen. So yes, you would need to sue to force teachers back.

By your rationale, ALL workers could just stay home and claim FMLA/Family leave indefinitely. That's not how the law works.

It’s not indefinite but many teachers on this board are saying they have enough leave to not come back to classrooms this year. And the. They’ll quit.

I agree that Bowser and the Chancellor have flubbed this big time but if they’re in part trying not to lose what may be a large part of their workforce, it might be with good reason.

But they can't just take that leave unless they have FMLA, right? I guess they could get paid out for their annual leave when they quit, but then they have no jobs?

In DC you can qualify for 16 weeks of medical FMLA and 16 weeks of family FMLA, to run consecutively for a total of 32 weeks. There are limitations to each, so this is only available to those who qualify for them, not just anyone who wants 32 weeks off. Without a qualified reason it’s leave without job protection so you could be fired I believe at any time. Oddly enough, doctors get the same legally entitled leave options.

Oops, I guess I was incorrect, I guess it's 4 months.

I mean that's great for those of you who think you can 'force people to do anything. Guess we'll see around March how many teachers quit after using all their FMLA. Or how many schools have to scramble to hire randoms because staff are being forced to use FMLA instead of teaching DL.

[Anonymous]

They are opening, for the students who need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to sue to:

-remove federally regulated FMLA
-remove federally regulated ADA accommodations
-repeal DC paid family leave
-force DCPS to hire new teachers to replace the ones they either fire when your first three lawsuits are successful or put on eligible leave status when your lawsuit is unsuccessful
-force people to take teaching jobs?
-or force people to become teachers?
(The last two have question marks bc I’m not sure what you’d be suing to ask for in terms of having staffing available to teach.)

Not a lawyer, but I’d say you definitely have a case here. When you are successful, it would definitely mean I go back to teaching in person!

No, you definitely are not a lawyer. Opening schools would not require repealing any of the laws you mentioned. That's not to say that I think a lawsuit would be successful, but not for the reasons you cite.

Ok, so maybe we disagree on “open the schools.” My building is open and people work there daily. So they are already open and no lawsuit is needed. OR, you want students back without teachers? If you want students back in class you need teachers to teach them. This is the only impediment and the only reason we can’t reopen. So yes, you would need to sue to force teachers back.

By your rationale, ALL workers could just stay home and claim FMLA/Family leave indefinitely. That's not how the law works.

It’s not indefinite but many teachers on this board are saying they have enough leave to not come back to classrooms this year. And the. They’ll quit.

I agree that Bowser and the Chancellor have flubbed this big time but if they’re in part trying not to lose what may be a large part of their workforce, it might be with good reason.

But they can't just take that leave unless they have FMLA, right? I guess they could get paid out for their annual leave when they quit, but then they have no jobs?

In DC you can qualify for 16 weeks of medical FMLA and 16 weeks of family FMLA, to run consecutively for a total of 32 weeks. There are limitations to each, so this is only available to those who qualify for them, not just anyone who wants 32 weeks off. Without a qualified reason it’s leave without job protection so you could be fired I believe at any time. Oddly enough, doctors get the same legally entitled leave options.

Oops, I guess I was incorrect, I guess it's 4 months.

I mean that's great for those of you who think you can 'force people to do anything. Guess we'll see around March how many teachers quit after using all their FMLA. Or how many schools have to scramble to hire randoms because staff are being forced to use FMLA instead of teaching DL.

And that’s exactly the problem for reopening. Not enough bodies for the room—whether current teachers or hired randoms. Anyone else arguing otherwise is missing the point.

Side note, I mentioned on the SWW principal thread that everyone was calling for teachers to go back or be fired (but then got upset when DCPS appeared to do just that) and was told it’s very few parents advocating for that. On this thread it seems to be many.