How can we force our school to reopen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to sue to:

-remove federally regulated FMLA
-remove federally regulated ADA accommodations
-repeal DC paid family leave
-force DCPS to hire new teachers to replace the ones they either fire when your first three lawsuits are successful or put on eligible leave status when your lawsuit is unsuccessful
-force people to take teaching jobs?
-or force people to become teachers?
(The last two have question marks bc I’m not sure what you’d be suing to ask for in terms of having staffing available to teach.)

Not a lawyer, but I’d say you definitely have a case here. When you are successful, it would definitely mean I go back to teaching in person!

No, you definitely are not a lawyer. Opening schools would not require repealing any of the laws you mentioned. That's not to say that I think a lawsuit would be successful, but not for the reasons you cite.

Ok, so maybe we disagree on “open the schools.” My building is open and people work there daily. So they are already open and no lawsuit is needed. OR, you want students back without teachers? If you want students back in class you need teachers to teach them. This is the only impediment and the only reason we can’t reopen. So yes, you would need to sue to force teachers back.

By your rationale, ALL workers could just stay home and claim FMLA/Family leave indefinitely. That's not how the law works.

It’s not indefinite but many teachers on this board are saying they have enough leave to not come back to classrooms this year. And the. They’ll quit.

I agree that Bowser and the Chancellor have flubbed this big time but if they’re in part trying not to lose what may be a large part of their workforce, it might be with good reason.

But they can't just take that leave unless they have FMLA, right? I guess they could get paid out for their annual leave when they quit, but then they have no jobs?

In DC you can qualify for 16 weeks of medical FMLA and 16 weeks of family FMLA, to run consecutively for a total of 32 weeks. There are limitations to each, so this is only available to those who qualify for them, not just anyone who wants 32 weeks off. Without a qualified reason it’s leave without job protection so you could be fired I believe at any time. Oddly enough, doctors get the same legally entitled leave options.

Oops, I guess I was incorrect, I guess it's 4 months.

I mean that's great for those of you who think you can 'force people to do anything. Guess we'll see around March how many teachers quit after using all their FMLA. Or how many schools have to scramble to hire randoms because staff are being forced to use FMLA instead of teaching DL.

And that’s exactly the problem for reopening. Not enough bodies for the room—whether current teachers or hired randoms. Anyone else arguing otherwise is missing the point.

Side note, I mentioned on the SWW principal thread that everyone was calling for teachers to go back or be fired (but then got upset when DCPS appeared to do just that) and was told it’s very few parents advocating for that. On this thread it seems to be many.

I think no one actually wants teachers to be fired, I think it stems from frustration and a sense of hopelessness.
There is a safe way to open schools but it does seem like we don't have the tools.
We can make schools better and safer but that won't change the health conditions of people.

The government isn't going to suddenly ban fast food and force people to move more. If we are being honest most disease is from poor eating and lack of movement. Obesity is also a factor in being more susceptible.

If you actually look at trends in places re-opening you'll notice their obesity rates are much lower as well as their rates of people with comorbidities.

So, it's easier to just say teachers are babies than really examine why we could possible be in this situation. Germany's obesity rate is about 22% Average being 26 (which isn't obese by US standards) The average for DC is 50% YES, you ready correctly FIFTY PERCENT. AND in ward 7 and 8 is 75%!!!

This is not a joke.
https://dchealth.dc.gov/service/obesity-overview
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2228rank.html (older but I wanted to use a gov agency)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to sue to:

-remove federally regulated FMLA
-remove federally regulated ADA accommodations
-repeal DC paid family leave
-force DCPS to hire new teachers to replace the ones they either fire when your first three lawsuits are successful or put on eligible leave status when your lawsuit is unsuccessful
-force people to take teaching jobs?
-or force people to become teachers?
(The last two have question marks bc I’m not sure what you’d be suing to ask for in terms of having staffing available to teach.)

Not a lawyer, but I’d say you definitely have a case here. When you are successful, it would definitely mean I go back to teaching in person!

No, you definitely are not a lawyer. Opening schools would not require repealing any of the laws you mentioned. That's not to say that I think a lawsuit would be successful, but not for the reasons you cite.

Ok, so maybe we disagree on “open the schools.” My building is open and people work there daily. So they are already open and no lawsuit is needed. OR, you want students back without teachers? If you want students back in class you need teachers to teach them. This is the only impediment and the only reason we can’t reopen. So yes, you would need to sue to force teachers back.

By your rationale, ALL workers could just stay home and claim FMLA/Family leave indefinitely. That's not how the law works.

It’s not indefinite but many teachers on this board are saying they have enough leave to not come back to classrooms this year. And the. They’ll quit.

I agree that Bowser and the Chancellor have flubbed this big time but if they’re in part trying not to lose what may be a large part of their workforce, it might be with good reason.

But they can't just take that leave unless they have FMLA, right? I guess they could get paid out for their annual leave when they quit, but then they have no jobs?

In DC you can qualify for 16 weeks of medical FMLA and 16 weeks of family FMLA, to run consecutively for a total of 32 weeks. There are limitations to each, so this is only available to those who qualify for them, not just anyone who wants 32 weeks off. Without a qualified reason it’s leave without job protection so you could be fired I believe at any time. Oddly enough, doctors get the same legally entitled leave options.

Oops, I guess I was incorrect, I guess it's 4 months.

I mean that's great for those of you who think you can 'force people to do anything. Guess we'll see around March how many teachers quit after using all their FMLA. Or how many schools have to scramble to hire randoms because staff are being forced to use FMLA instead of teaching DL.

And that’s exactly the problem for reopening. Not enough bodies for the room—whether current teachers or hired randoms. Anyone else arguing otherwise is missing the point.

Side note, I mentioned on the SWW principal thread that everyone was calling for teachers to go back or be fired (but then got upset when DCPS appeared to do just that) and was told it’s very few parents advocating for that. On this thread it seems to be many.

I think no one actually wants teachers to be fired, I think it stems from frustration and a sense of hopelessness.
There is a safe way to open schools but it does seem like we don't have the tools.
We can make schools better and safer but that won't change the health conditions of people.

The government isn't going to suddenly ban fast food and force people to move more. If we are being honest most disease is from poor eating and lack of movement. Obesity is also a factor in being more susceptible.

If you actually look at trends in places re-opening you'll notice their obesity rates are much lower as well as their rates of people with comorbidities.

So, it's easier to just say teachers are babies than really examine why we could possible be in this situation. Germany's obesity rate is about 22% Average being 26 (which isn't obese by US standards) The average for DC is 50% YES, you ready correctly FIFTY PERCENT. AND in ward 7 and 8 is 75%!!!

This is not a joke.
https://dchealth.dc.gov/service/obesity-overview
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2228rank.html (older but I wanted to use a gov agency)

The Southeast is fully reopen and it has the highest obesity rates in the country.

What you want to say is only the states following science accurately should reopen and fortunately the DMV has the National Institute of Health right here in our backyard and local leaders know it should not reopen.

You want to open schools? Move to Georgia where the Governor is blatantly ignoring the CDC guidance out outlined even a quarter of a mile from his mansion.

[Anonymous]

Can we organize a protest like the Loudon county one? I’ll be there!

[Anonymous]

Maryland is closed too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maryland is closed too

Shhhhhhhh. Don't bother these people with "facts".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think a lawsuit is the way to go. Something like an open letter to Bowser and the Council that is published in the Post and online that is signed by 10 thousand families with students enrolled in that says - You must start prioritizing schools and education. Stop fooling around with bars and indoor dining and concerts. Do the work necessary and dedicate the funding necessary to meet the needs of our students.

I wish the editorial board of the Post would do that on their own.

I would not include a list of demands like the WTU keeps putting out there because it's very divisive and not productive.

The WTU's list of demands is designed to be impossible to meet so schools will stay closed. The last thing WTU wants is for schools to reopen.

They don’t need WTU’s permission to reopen. They may want their support but schools can open with or without union support. Teachers legally can’t strike so they would have to come back, take leave, or quit. So again, there’s the problem—staff entitled to make their own decisions using their legal provided leave.

I’m not disputing this but how are other cities able to get enough teachers to show up to teach in person to pull off hybrid? I mean hybrid for all students who want it, not just 11 students per grade. Surely FMLA is available to those teachers too?
Teachers need approval to take annual leave unless they're on FMLA, right? Even in regular times, teachers can't just say they're going on vacation for 3 weeks during the school year? How does their sick leave work? Do they need to provide medical documentation after x amount of days?

We don't have to take leave, there are plenty of families at every school who want DL. SO DCPS is trying to match those families to their school. But the issues is what if there's more people qualified for teaching DL than there are students??

You can't just say 'Nancy's diabetes is more of a concern than your husband's Jane.' It's not live every case will be obesity vs. cancer.

You could just not make DL a possibility for anyone but after teachers take their leave and use that all up for weeks, because they'd qualify for FMLA which I think is like 3 months, they'll just quit.

Then we'll have what 40-60% of teachers left? Ok, good luck having in person AFTER the pandemic then...especially high needs teachers like special education, math, and science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we organize a protest like the Loudon county one? I’ll be there!

Do it!!!!!
Please, please do it!

I want to watch the Karen’s of DC demand that someone (else) watch their kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we organize a protest like the Loudon county one? I’ll be there!

Do it!!!!!
Please, please do it!

I want to watch the Karen’s of DC demand that someone (else) watch their kids!

That is such a cheap shot. Besides, DCPS, is already offering to provide someone else to “watch” kids via the cares program. That is not the same as having an educator teach your child in person in a collaborative classroom environment. I don’t think most parents are advocating schools to fling their doors open for all students at 100% capacity. But surely there is a middle ground and no one has provided any viable options for how to achieve that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we organize a protest like the Loudon county one? I’ll be there!

Do it!!!!!
Please, please do it!

I want to watch the Karen’s of DC demand that someone (else) watch their kids!

That is such a cheap shot. Besides, DCPS, is already offering to provide someone else to “watch” kids via the cares program. That is not the same as having an educator teach your child in person in a collaborative classroom environment. I don’t think most parents are advocating schools to fling their doors open for all students at 100% capacity. But surely there is a middle ground and no one has provided any viable options for how to achieve that.

I think the hybrid model achieved that. Why did they throw it away?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we organize a protest like the Loudon county one? I’ll be there!

Do it!!!!!
Please, please do it!

I want to watch the Karen’s of DC demand that someone (else) watch their kids!

What a sexist, garbage comment. Newsflash: school is childcare. Nothing wrong with moms wanting their kids to be in school so they can work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we organize a protest like the Loudon county one? I’ll be there!

Do it!!!!!
Please, please do it!

I want to watch the Karen’s of DC demand that someone (else) watch their kids!

What a sexist, garbage comment. Newsflash: school is childcare. Nothing wrong with moms wanting their kids to be in school so they can work.

+1. My DH wants schools to be open, too. He's just as exhausted and sad about the situation as I am.

OP, or anyone who starts or finds a link to a petition - please post it in this thread. I checked change.org but there's nothing new on there that I can see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we organize a protest like the Loudon county one? I’ll be there!

Do it!!!!!
Please, please do it!

I want to watch the Karen’s of DC demand that someone (else) watch their kids!

What a sexist, garbage comment. Newsflash: school is childcare. Nothing wrong with moms wanting their kids to be in school so they can work.

+1. My DH wants schools to be open, too. He's just as exhausted and sad about the situation as I am.

OP, or anyone who starts or finds a link to a petition - please post it in this thread. I checked change.org but there's nothing new on there that I can see.

What’s sexist is thinking that teachers (mostly female) are just childcare providers. Being a parent is a job too, do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is filing a lawsuit our only option? Looking for options, ideas.

At this rate, DC is going to be the last place in America to reopen schools even as we have among the smallest coronavirus caseloads in the country.

LOL. What a joke. You aren't legally entitled to in person school during a pandemic.

The state sets the educational requirements and they are being met via DL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are tons of lawsuits around the country on this. Some are parents trying to force schools to open. Some are teachers trying to force schools to close.

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2020/08/21/covid-19-school-reopening-battle-moves-to-the.html

Well, yes, any idiot can sue.

The claim that these lawsuits are "forcing" schools open in another states is laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers have a raw deal. They will be stuck doing all the cleaning in their classroom on top of everything else. They will have to deal with kids in the classroom + kids who refuse to come to school. If teachers get sick, unlikely they will have much support from DCPS. I’m a parent and I think teachers have a raw deal. They don’t get paid nearly enough to put up with everything that is dumped on them.

My good friend teaches high school in another state and when they opened in person, they told her she was supposed to clean the room thoroughly in the 4-minute passing period between each class and what they gave her to do that with?

Two bottles of Windex. Does jack sh*t for COVID, but hey, at least the windows won't be streaky.