Yahoo story: Why the world's game is a white game in the U.S.
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Anonymous
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There's poverty....and then there's poverty. Its all relative.
1 Burundi 727 2 Central African Republic 823 3 Democratic Republic of the Congo 849 4 Eritrea 1,060 5 Niger 1,106 6 Malawi 1,240 7 Mozambique 1,303 8 Liberia 1,414 9 South Sudan 1,602 10 Sierra Leon 1,690 11 Madagascar 1,699 12 Togo 1,826 13 Haiti 1,878 14 Guinea-Bissau 2,019 15 Burkina Faso 2,077 16 Afghanistan 2,095 17 Kiribati 2,138 18 Yemen 2,280 19 Solomon Islands 2,303 20 Guinea 2,441 21 Rwanda 2,452 22 Mali 2,471 23 Chad 2,480 24 Ethiopia 2,511 25 Uganda 2,631 26 Zimbabwe 2,702 27 The Gambia 2,746 28 Comoros 2,799 29 Vanuata 2,957 30 Nepal 3,318 31 Sao Tomè and Prìncipe 3,387 32 Tanzania 3,402 33 Benin 3,446 34 Micronesia 3,562 35 Tajikistan 3,589 36 Lesotho 3,614 37 Senegal 3,853 38 Marshall Islands 3,868 39 Kenya 3,875 40 Cameroon 3,955 41 Papua New Guinea 3,983 42 Kyrgyz Republic 4,056 43 Sudan 4,072 44 Zambia 4,148 45 Tuvalu 4,277 46 Còte d'Ivoire 4,457 47 Cambodia 4,664 48 Mauritania 4,881 49 Bangladesh 5,028 50 Timor-Leste 5,254 51 Nicaragua 5,290 52 Honduras 5,395 53 Djibouti 5,568 54 Pakistan 5,872 55 Nigeria 6,054 56 Samoa 6,152 57 Tonga 6,486 58 Myanmar 6,707 59 Angola 6,752 60 Ghana 6,956 61 Republic of Congo 7,174 62 Moldova 7,703 63 Cabo Verde 7,729 64 Vietnam 8,066 65 Lao P.D.R. 8,110 66 Bolivia 8,172 67 El Salvador 8,313 68 India 8,378 69 Belize 8,664 70 Guatemala 8,705 71 Nauru 8,999 72 Uzbekistan 9,000 73 Guyana 9,094 74 Morocco 9,235 75 Libya 9,358 76 Philippines 9,471 77 Jordan 9,649 78 Jamaica 9,692 79 Ukraine 9,774 80 Bhutan 9,876 81 Armenia 10,866 82 Eswatini 11,160 83 Namibia 11,266 84 Ecuador 11,742 85 Dominica 12,008 86 Fiji 12,147 87 Georgia 12,227 88 Kosovo 12,322 89 St. Vincent and the Grenadines 12,454 90 Tunisia 12,661 91 Paraguay 13,584 92 South Africa 13,754 93 Sri Lanka 13,897 94 Albania 13,991 95 Indonesia 13,998 96 Egypt 14,023 97 Bosnia and Herzegovina 14,220 98 Mongolia 14,309 99 St. Lucia 14,492 100 Peru 14,719 101 Lebanon 15,049 102 Suriname 15,532 103 Colombia 15,541 104 Algeria 15,696 105 Palau 16,234 106 Brazil 16,462 107 North Macedonia 16,486 108 Grenada 16,717 109 Iran 17,662 110 Iraq 18,025 111 Costa Rica 18,037 112 Botswana 18,558 113 Serbia 18,564 114 Azerbaijan 18,616 115 Barbados 18,921 116 Gabon 19,057 117 Dominican Republic 19,411 118 China 19,504 119 Argentina 20,055 120 Montenegro 20,084 121 Thailand 20,365 122 Turkmenistan 20,411 123 Belarus 20,644 124 Mexico 20,868 125 Equatorial Guinea 21,300 126 Maldives 23,312 127 Uruguay 23,581 128 Bulgaria 24,595 129 Mauritius 24,996 130 Chile 26,317 131 Panama 26,822 132 Croatia 27,729 133 Romania 27,887 134 Turkey 28,264 135 Kazakhstan 28,849 136 Antigua and Barbuda 29,346 137 Russia 29,642 138 Greece 30,252 139 St. Kitts and Nevis 30,578 140 Latvia 31,402 141 Seychelles 31,693 142 Trinidad and Tobago 32,881 143 Malaysia 33,333 144 The Bahamas 33,665 145 Portugal 33,665 145 Poland 33,665 147 Hungary 34,046 148 Estonia 35,852 149 Slovak Republic 36,640 150 Lithuania 36,701 151 Slovenia 38,462 152 Czech Republic 38,834 153 Israel 39,121 154 Puerto Rico 40,067 155 Aruba 39,121 156 Italy 40,470 157 New Zealand 40,943 158 Cyprus 41,407 159 Spain 41,592 160 South Korea 44,704 161 Japan 45,546 162 United Kingdom 46,828 163 France 47,223 164 Oman 47,366 165 Malta 47,405 166 Finland 47,975 167 Belgium 49,529 168 Canada 48,246 169 Bahrain 49,529 170 Australia 50,725 171 Austria 50,931 172 Germany 53,558 173 Denmark 53,882 174 Sweden 54,628 175 Taiwan Province of China 55,078 176 Saudi Arabia 55,704 177 Iceland 56,066 178 Netherlands 58,341 179 San Marino 61,575 180 Hong Kong SAR 64,928 181 United States 65,112 182 Switzerland 66,196 183 Kuwait 66,387 184 United Arab Emirates 69,435 185 Norway 76,684 186 Brunei Darussalam 80,384 187 Ireland 83,399 188 Singapore 103,181 189 Luxembourg 108,951 190 Macao SAR 114,363 191 Qatar 132,886 |
Anonymous
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The player pool in the US is depleted of the very best athletes. With athletes I’m using the term broadly to mean those with superior speed, strength, coordination, determination, all the factors that matter at top levels with both physical and aspects. It’s a total package.
There is some selection based on body type (7 footers in basketball) but more so the athlete develops their body to be ideal for their sport. Lebron and MJ and Kobe were tall skinny kids who eventually bulked up in their 20s and 30s because it was needed for basketball. Beyond just physical attributes they were also superior in coordination and vision and determination that would apply to any sport. The point is not that these 3 would have made great soccer players. The point is the top candidates with the natural abilities, physical and otherwise, at an early age, are not choosing soccer because it is the 4th or 5th choice. It could apply at any level and player pool size. Take the very best candidates out of the pool and it propagates up the club, school, district, region, country level. This is certainly not the ONLY reason for state of US soccer. Coaching, system, costs can all certainly contribute. But it is the primary reason that drives all the others. If the best of the best we’re going to soccer, the coaching and dollars and attention would follow |
Anonymous
I understand what you're saying. I just think you're full of sh*t. Here are the main points on which we disagree: 1) You don't need a "super, super star" to win the World Cup. Who was the "super, super star" on Germany's 2014 team? Who was the "super, super star" on Croatia's 2018 finalist team? Can you even name a player on the 2016 Euro Iceland team that beat England? Or one from the 2018 Sweden team that went deep into the competition? 2) Having a "super, super star" doesn't guarantee success. See Messi, Lionel. Hell, the Argentina team is stacked with players starting at top European clubs. 3) For you, who are the "super, super stars?" We can probably agree on Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, neither of whom came from particularly destitute backgrounds. For every guy like Romelu Lukaku, there's a Gerard Pique. So, since it's clear that a team can be great without any "super, super stars," and that having "super, super stars" doesn't guarantee success, where does that leave your arguments? FWIW, I do agree that Pulisic is not a *great* player yet and Weah might not even be a good one. Convince me, though...I can think of two "super, super stars" who did come from destitute backgrounds (Pele and Maradona) and two that didn't (Messi and Ronaldo). Although I still don't believe that the US or any other team needs a "super, super star" (in quotations because it's a pretty stupid phrase), can you give me more examples of players that would fit your theory? |
Anonymous
| Poverty doesn't make greatness. |
Anonymous
Totally agree with you PP (though Ronaldo did come from a destitute background in Madeira). Also, re “super, super stars” putting Pulisic aside, Reyna is starting and scoring for Dortmund at 17, there’s an international bidding war among top clubs for Dest, McKennie and Adams are highly rated by Juventus and Leipzig. We have the talent we need right now to do well with a mostly suburban, mostly comfortably raised group of guys and with so many kids are playing in Europe now, we will have more on the way. If only we had the coaching to match. I will go insane if Berhalter sticks with Michael Bradley and almost any of the rest of the very old guard. |
Anonymous
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Well...experiencing hardship and being “destitute”...where’s the line?
One of the things that impressed me in “The Last Dance” was MJs ability to create motivation out of imagined grievances. Sounds exhausting but hey, whatever it takes 🤷♂️. Solid middle-class kid, btw. But I really am curious about who the PP considers “super, super great” other than the 4 that I mentioned. |
Anonymous
I am only doing champions since I don't want to spend that much time here. Superstars. Not all-time, but superstars (i.e. head and shoulders better than Pulisic with long successful international and club careers in top 20-30 players in the world over at least five years). Also - I did not say that having an all time great or even a superstar guarantees anything, but that winning necessitates at least one if not multiple superstars. '18 France (Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann) '14 Germany (Mueller, Schweinsteiger, Neuer) also, just about every player on the starting team was better than Pulisic is now. '10 Spain (Iniesta, Ramos, Casillas) - also, just about every player on the starting team was better than Pulisic is now. '06 Italy (Cannavaro, Pirlo) '02 Brazil (Ronaldo, Ronaldinho) '98France (Zidane, Henry) '94 Brazil (Romario, Bebeto) '90 Germany (Matthaus, Klinsman) '86 Argentina (Maradona) Also - here is the background Messi came from ... https://www.goal.com/en/news/2466/goal-50/2015/12/03/17852742/messis-childhood-struggle-much-more-than-a-few-injections Also his dad worked at a steel factory and his mom was a cleaner. Hardly suburbia, dumb ass. Oh, and you mentioned Croatia in 2018. Best player: Luka Modric. Here is an excerpt from his childhood, "However, his childhood coincided with the Croatian War of Independence—in 1991, when the war escalated, his family were forced to flee the area. Modrić's grandfather Luka was executed by Serb rebels who were part of the police of SAO Krajina in December 1991 near his house in Modrići, and after the family fled the house was burned to the ground." You really are clueless and actually the one full of sh$t. Grow up, read a book, observe life, and pay attention. |
Anonymous
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You did me the courtesy of a long reply which was mostly somewhat coherent...So let me see if I can sum up your argument.
The US is not good enough in world football because the US does not have any "super, super great" players. "Super, super great" players only come from circumstances of hardship which force them to develop, train, and play with a desperate intensity. Therefore, in order to succeed in international football (shall we call "success" consistent appearances in the World Cup semi-finals?) the US must somehow find, develop, train, and effectively employ at least one of these "super, super great" players which MUST come from desperate circumstances. Does that fairly represent your viewpoint? The best I can give you is this: you might not be wrong. But this argument is also completely useless. You can talk yourself in circles--any player who falters, well, clearly they weren't desperate enough. Never mind the *literally tens of thousands* of young men from horrifying situations who do not succeed as professional footballers. You can also re-define the destitution however you want, so there's not much of a point to arguing with you. Again, you might not be wrong--but it's completely irrelevant. What, is US Soccer supposed to go through the records of Child Protection Services looking for the really bad cases to try to make them into footballers? Your lists of "super, super great" players...Well, again, I appreciate that you put it together. But Griezmann? Pogba? Mueller? Schweinsteiger? Also, the fact that you think that Pogba was the "super, super great" player in the French midfield without a mention of Kante makes your level of judgment clear. Very good players all, to be sure. Pulisic has the potential to surpass them all in terms of individual quality (two notes here--1) I was a Pulisic skeptic for a long time. But you can't argue with what he's done at Chelsea this year, and 2) He does seem a bit fragile and even a small injury could knock him off course). But even if we just accepted your judgment of these players as "super, super great," have all of them suffered the tragic trauma that you deem necessary to attain that status? Of course not. So "white kids" from a middle-class background who never lacked for anything in life such as Mueller, Schweinsteiger, and Neuer can, with the proper training and environment, become world-beaters. You refute yourself. Last time, even if you're not entirely wrong, your argument is entirely irrelevant. It's not like US Soccer can start grading the level of personnel tragedy a 7-year-old has suffered as a predictor of their future success. What they CAN do is improve their coaching, provide more access to quality coaching, and work on developing a coherent national strategy for how the US plays, which they can then teach to young players. "Grow up, read a book, observe life, and pay attention." LOL...sure thing, chief. |
Anonymous
I think we should be good in a few years. The current crop of teenagers are growing up under COVID which should provide all the hardship they need. Go USA. |
Anonymous
Are you serious? Covid is not a hardship for most teens? You obviously have never traveled/worked in many of these locations. Travel soccer is not only a white privileged sport but also one that typically is filled with parents with little economic sense. Yes, there are those that feel that their kid is doing it for the fun, comraderie, etc. However, for the average American who is shelling out thousands of dollars of year so little Larla can play soccer instead of putting the money in a college fund or funding their own retirement is asinine. 99% of these kids will not get college scholarships and many will quit before high school. But we do it anyway. It is a very interesting study in what Americans value. |
Anonymous
Thank you. The insult was a response to your insult. Forums like this tend to bring that out. Anyhow, I was not trying to say what the US can or must do, I was simply saying what history has typically shown. That’s all. Germany is an exception to the rule (as are a few other Euro countries) in that their cultures live breath and eat soccer and the pro teams and leagues and nations there plow money into the sport and the development of their best players. We do not have that here, and not sure we ever will given all the other competing sports and activities. So, we most likely need hungrier players (who tend to, but not always, come from worse situations) rising up to take us to the next level. I like Pulisic a lot. I hope he continues to make strides and is utilized correctly by our national team coaches. Same with Weah and Reyna. We can get to quarters with talent like that. |
Anonymous
Probably not. True for boys, not girls. It’s still a machismo sport for those cultures. The women still aren’t playing in high numbers. |
Anonymous
My boys were one of two Caucasians in their u13 and u16 teams. As blondes, they are very east for me to spot with my bad distance vision. The higher up they’ve risen, the less white the team becomes. |
Anonymous
Joke. Right? They are playing less and training less—on their own and with teams. COVID is a huge setback. In the younger ages, I’m seeing more chubby/fat kids on the field—even in high brackets. |
Anonymous
I loved MJ’s competitiveness and the chip he would carry for people he thought slighted him. I’ve seen my own kid after getting screwed over carry a chip that spurred intense training on his own time. Wanting to prove them wrong/make them sorry was a way I always found motivation too. And if you get a chance to play against a coach/team that screwed you: look out 
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