Yahoo story: Why the world's game is a white game in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well...experiencing hardship and being “destitute”...where’s the line?

One of the things that impressed me in “The Last Dance” was MJs ability to create motivation out of imagined grievances. Sounds exhausting but hey, whatever it takes 🤷‍♂️. Solid middle-class kid, btw.

But I really am curious about who the PP considers “super, super great” other than the 4 that I mentioned.

I loved MJ’s competitiveness and the chip he would carry for people he thought slighted him.

I’ve seen my own kid after getting screwed over carry a chip that spurred intense training on his own time. Wanting to prove them wrong/make them sorry was a way I always found motivation too. And if you get a chance to play against a coach/team that screwed you: look out

The Manning brothers are a great example of this intense competitiveness too.

Very good upbringing. Gretzky too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You did me the courtesy of a long reply which was mostly somewhat coherent...So let me see if I can sum up your argument.

The US is not good enough in world football because the US does not have any "super, super great" players. "Super, super great" players only come from circumstances of hardship which force them to develop, train, and play with a desperate intensity. Therefore, in order to succeed in international football (shall we call "success" consistent appearances in the World Cup semi-finals?) the US must somehow find, develop, train, and effectively employ at least one of these "super, super great" players which MUST come from desperate circumstances. Does that fairly represent your viewpoint?

The best I can give you is this: you might not be wrong. But this argument is also completely useless. You can talk yourself in circles--any player who falters, well, clearly they weren't desperate enough. Never mind the *literally tens of thousands* of young men from horrifying situations who do not succeed as professional footballers. You can also re-define the destitution however you want, so there's not much of a point to arguing with you. Again, you might not be wrong--but it's completely irrelevant. What, is US Soccer supposed to go through the records of Child Protection Services looking for the really bad cases to try to make them into footballers?

Your lists of "super, super great" players...Well, again, I appreciate that you put it together. But Griezmann? Pogba? Mueller? Schweinsteiger? Also, the fact that you think that Pogba was the "super, super great" player in the French midfield without a mention of Kante makes your level of judgment clear. Very good players all, to be sure. Pulisic has the potential to surpass them all in terms of individual quality (two notes here--1) I was a Pulisic skeptic for a long time. But you can't argue with what he's done at Chelsea this year, and 2) He does seem a bit fragile and even a small injury could knock him off course).

But even if we just accepted your judgment of these players as "super, super great," have all of them suffered the tragic trauma that you deem necessary to attain that status? Of course not. So "white kids" from a middle-class background who never lacked for anything in life such as Mueller, Schweinsteiger, and Neuer can, with the proper training and environment, become world-beaters. You refute yourself.

Last time, even if you're not entirely wrong, your argument is entirely irrelevant. It's not like US Soccer can start grading the level of personnel tragedy a 7-year-old has suffered as a predictor of their future success. What they CAN do is improve their coaching, provide more access to quality coaching, and work on developing a coherent national strategy for how the US plays, which they can then teach to young players.

"Grow up, read a book, observe life, and pay attention." LOL...sure thing, chief.

I think we should be good in a few years. The current crop of teenagers are growing up under COVID which should provide all the hardship they need. Go USA.

Joke. Right?

They are playing less and training less—on their own and with teams.

COVID is a huge setback. In the younger ages, I’m seeing more chubby/fat kids on the field—even in high brackets.

Getting the chubs is just another hardship. It's all good. Slap a mask on him if you feel he's having things too easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You did me the courtesy of a long reply which was mostly somewhat coherent...So let me see if I can sum up your argument.

The US is not good enough in world football because the US does not have any "super, super great" players. "Super, super great" players only come from circumstances of hardship which force them to develop, train, and play with a desperate intensity. Therefore, in order to succeed in international football (shall we call "success" consistent appearances in the World Cup semi-finals?) the US must somehow find, develop, train, and effectively employ at least one of these "super, super great" players which MUST come from desperate circumstances. Does that fairly represent your viewpoint?

The best I can give you is this: you might not be wrong. But this argument is also completely useless. You can talk yourself in circles--any player who falters, well, clearly they weren't desperate enough. Never mind the *literally tens of thousands* of young men from horrifying situations who do not succeed as professional footballers. You can also re-define the destitution however you want, so there's not much of a point to arguing with you. Again, you might not be wrong--but it's completely irrelevant. What, is US Soccer supposed to go through the records of Child Protection Services looking for the really bad cases to try to make them into footballers?

Your lists of "super, super great" players...Well, again, I appreciate that you put it together. But Griezmann? Pogba? Mueller? Schweinsteiger? Also, the fact that you think that Pogba was the "super, super great" player in the French midfield without a mention of Kante makes your level of judgment clear. Very good players all, to be sure. Pulisic has the potential to surpass them all in terms of individual quality (two notes here--1) I was a Pulisic skeptic for a long time. But you can't argue with what he's done at Chelsea this year, and 2) He does seem a bit fragile and even a small injury could knock him off course).

But even if we just accepted your judgment of these players as "super, super great," have all of them suffered the tragic trauma that you deem necessary to attain that status? Of course not. So "white kids" from a middle-class background who never lacked for anything in life such as Mueller, Schweinsteiger, and Neuer can, with the proper training and environment, become world-beaters. You refute yourself.

Last time, even if you're not entirely wrong, your argument is entirely irrelevant. It's not like US Soccer can start grading the level of personnel tragedy a 7-year-old has suffered as a predictor of their future success. What they CAN do is improve their coaching, provide more access to quality coaching, and work on developing a coherent national strategy for how the US plays, which they can then teach to young players.

"Grow up, read a book, observe life, and pay attention." LOL...sure thing, chief.

I think we should be good in a few years. The current crop of teenagers are growing up under COVID which should provide all the hardship they need. Go USA.

Joke. Right?

They are playing less and training less—on their own and with teams.

COVID is a huge setback. In the younger ages, I’m seeing more chubby/fat kids on the field—even in high brackets.

Getting the chubs is just another hardship. It's all good. Slap a mask on him if you feel he's having things too easy.

Not very nice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of theories about why youth soccer is what it is in US, but it all boils down to soccer is not a mainstream sport in America. Kids watch, talk about, and casually play other sports. Their parents did the same. It’s what they know. Nothing wrong with it, it’s just the culture. Sure, there are small pockets of communities with large Latino populations where there is a soccer culture because that’s what they grew up with. Soccer is not mainstream just like lacrosse, swimming, volleyball, hockey.

I really think it is this. My local DC field often has pickup men's games--they are all Latino, West Indian, or African guys. My spouse is in one of these groups and is a huge soccer fan, having grown up in a country where "football" is king. It's just not a big thing among most Americans (except little kids).

It might start to change with increasing globalism, but not sure that'll happen any time soon.

[Anonymous]

Gotta push back on the "soccer-crazed" culture idea. I live in Europe in a country which Americans would associate with "soccer-crazed," and it's not really that big of a deal. Kids don't dribble balls down the street. Pickup games aren't happening in every spot of free ground. Lots of kids play other sports. In fact, *most people* don't even really follow the professional leagues.

Lots of kids drop out of soccer around the 14-15 year age range because they decide or realize that they will not be professionals and want to spend their time preparing for university and their future profession. The kids who are on track to become professionals start seriously training to become professionals. They have the mechanism (i.e. the educational tracks) to do this. In the US we do not (mostly).

As an analogy, it reminds me of the axiom "Quantity has a quality all its own." It's the American way--our Sherman tanks in WWII were crappy, but we had enough of them that they were effective enough!

Doesn't work in international football. If we want success, we don't have to wait for a "culture change" and we can't just feed hundreds of thousands of kids into the hopper and hope that some gems will sort themselves out. We have to do the work of teaching kids how to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gotta push back on the "soccer-crazed" culture idea. I live in Europe in a country which Americans would associate with "soccer-crazed," and it's not really that big of a deal. Kids don't dribble balls down the street. Pickup games aren't happening in every spot of free ground. Lots of kids play other sports. In fact, *most people* don't even really follow the professional leagues.

Lots of kids drop out of soccer around the 14-15 year age range because they decide or realize that they will not be professionals and want to spend their time preparing for university and their future profession. The kids who are on track to become professionals start seriously training to become professionals. They have the mechanism (i.e. the educational tracks) to do this. In the US we do not (mostly).

As an analogy, it reminds me of the axiom "Quantity has a quality all its own." It's the American way--our Sherman tanks in WWII were crappy, but we had enough of them that they were effective enough!

Doesn't work in international football. If we want success, we don't have to wait for a "culture change" and we can't just feed hundreds of thousands of kids into the hopper and hope that some gems will sort themselves out. We have to do the work of teaching kids how to play.

+1. American clubs don't really have great incentive to develop players. They care about populating or expanding the club more than development.

[Anonymous]

Why are there more Hispanic boys playing vs. Hispanic girls? I think it is because if money is limited, families will usually pay only for the sons to play. Women's soccer is not very popular yet in Latin America. As a Hispanic woman, who grew up in South America, I was constantly reminded that soccer was a BOYS sport. It seems to still be part of the culture. It is refreshing to see more Hispanic girls playing on travel teams. I have two daughters who have played travel for many years. There usually are one or two more Hispanic girls on their teams. On the boys side though, I would say teams are about 70% Hispanic in our area.