Which school best supports children who are advanced academically?

[Anonymous]

Well, yes and no! They evaluate the kids at the beginning of the year and place them in one of four or five math sections. So they do split up and move around. My impression, however, is that it's all 4th graders in the 5th/6th group because the fifth graders are all already doing 6th/7th grade math or above.

In my daughter's school (non GT magnet), however, it's more like you describe. She is in third but does fourth grade math, so she leaves her class with some of the other kids and goes to a fourth grade classroom, where there are some kids for whom this is their regular on-grade work.

And the son of a friend of mine is a fifth grader who is in seventh grade math, so he actually goes to his local middle school and takes math, then is bussed back to his home elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Many thanks, 14:59. I'm starting to understand better. So if you say "my child is working 1-2 grades ahead," you'd mean that he's working above the MCPS standard 4th-grade curriculum, correct?

Just to clarify, is your son at a MCPS G&T magnet? Or is he doing this above-grade work at a non-magnet school?

[Anonymous]

Can anyone described the differences between a regular Mont Country school with acceleration, a gifted magnet, and "ordinary" magnets. Do the opportunities for a kid differ depending on which elementary they are in, or do they all have access to acceleration where the 3rd grader can go to the 4th grade classroom for math.

I am trying to learn and the terms can be so confusing. Have tried to get through the Montgomery Country site, but its not exactly crystal clear.

[Anonymous]

New poster here. Our kid also did math 2 grades up (in a foreign language -- this was one of the immersion programs). There was no separate curriculum for them, instead they went down the hall to a higher grade's class. Starting in fifth grade they needed to walk over to the nearby middle school.

The higher placement for some kids after the "testing" seems to be self-perpetuating. That is, if your kid is in a higher group in the earlier grades, they will do better on the tests next year, and be in the higher group next year.

OP, I'm really glad to help now that I think this is a two-way street. You'll find lots of other very educated parents here, who want to help if they are asked nicely. We have our pride too

[Anonymous]

@15:12 Yes, you are correct -- I'm comparing it to standard grade-level curriculum for MCPS. One DC is at an MCPS magnet, a Center for the Highly Gifted. The other DC is at a regular MCPS ES (although it's an immersion program). So both kids do above-grade-level math -- in the GT magnet, it's with other kids in the same grade who are all accelerated, and in the regular ES they go to a higher grade just for math.

@15:13. It is VERY confusing. Basically, in ES there are GT magnets (again, "Centers for the Highly Gifted" -- silly name), and kids must test into these. There are six of them, I think, and you attend the one in your geographically assigned area. Then there's acceleration in a regular ES, the most effective of which, in my experience, is in math as described above. There's also reading acceleration and that happens when classes are divided into reading groups -- very similar to the private schools I've observed. However, if you have a kid who's very advanced reading-wise, this may be difficult for them to accommodate in the home school.

Once you get to middle school, there are two gifted magnets, which you must test into, plus some magnet programs by subject area that are only by lottery. My impression is that there are separate GT classes in all middle schools and high schools, too.

I'm not all that familiar with HS magnets, beyond the math/science magnet at Blair and the IB program at Whitman, both of which kids must test into.

[Anonymous]

15:14 here. The two middle school magnets are for english/communications at Eastern MS and for science/math at Takoma Park MS. This dichotomy exists almost to the same extent at the high school level, with three test-in programs: math/science at Blair, language/communications program at Blair (not formally called a magnet, but still test-in) and also a test-in IB program at Richard Montgomery at Rockville.

(Does Whitman have an IB program? I'm not so sure about this. BCC has an IB program and I believe you need a certain GPA plus meeting a language requirement, if I had to guess I'd say maybe 2 years of a modern language, and then you are automatically in BCC's IB program if you signal interest.)

The other programs at the MS level are more "boutique" programs for arts/music, aerospace, and some others. Entrance is by lottery not by testing.

[Anonymous]

You're right! I meant Richard Montgomery.

[Anonymous]

To give you a sense, I think the Richard Montgomery IB magnet took one out of 8 applicants for this year's entering class. The Takoma MS magnet took 1 out of 6 or 7. So it might not be a good plan to move to MoCo and assume that your kid will get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:@15:12 Yes, you are correct -- I'm comparing it to standard grade-level curriculum for MCPS.

So if I'm understanding correctly, if you want to compare what a child that's studying above-grade-level materials at a MoCo public school with a child that's at a private school, you cannot simply compare which child is working the most levels above-grade, because they probably are working from different baselines. In other words, the MoCo child working 2 grade levels ahead in math just means that child is working a math curriculum that's 2 grades ahead of general MCPS curriculum. A given private school curriculum might be advanced ahead of MCPS (or the same as, or even behind), depending on the particular private at issue.

To be clear, I'm not boostering privates, or publics. I'm just realizing that measuring kids in terms of grade-levels-ahead is not really an effective comparison measure.

[Anonymous]

What is a non-gifted magnet versus a GT magnet? I've seen references to the former on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Are there just two magnets in MoCo middle school then? How many children are accomodated in these two magnets? It seems that the potential is high for pretty smart children to go to the regular middle schools. Are parents pleased with these, or as pleased as you're going to be with any middle school. I guess I am wondering whether middle school is the time when some MoCo parents wish they sent their kids to private school. Is the somewhat accurate or not at all?

[Anonymous]

So if I'm understanding correctly, if you want to compare what a child that's studying above-grade-level materials at a MoCo public school with a child that's at a private school, you cannot simply compare which child is working the most levels above-grade, because they probably are working from different baselines. In other words, the MoCo child working 2 grade levels ahead in math just means that child is working a math curriculum that's 2 grades ahead of general MCPS curriculum. A given private school curriculum might be advanced ahead of MCPS (or the same as, or even behind), depending on the particular private at issue.

To be clear, I'm not boostering privates, or publics. I'm just realizing that measuring kids in terms of grade-levels-ahead is not really an effective comparison measure.

Yes, this is correct. MCPS grade level refers to MCPS curriculum. This may not be the same curriculum as the private school levels. In theory, the private school math curriculum may be 2 grades levels higher than the MCPS curriculum. Two to three years ago when I was on the private school touting circuit this was not the case. Of course, it may have changed recently.

[Anonymous]

@19:18 I think this is absolutely not correct. I have made the rounds of private schools this year and asked a lot of detailed questions about the math curriculum in particular. My observations indicate that the private math curriculum and the public on-grade curriculum are pretty much the same level. They may use different methodologies (although some use the same as MCPS, believe it or not) but the kids are learning about the same thing. Never (and I visited a large number of schools) were the third or fourth graders I observed in private school doing math that was above the level that the third and fourth graders do at MCPS.

This is not necessarily a bad thing on the part of private schools. There are a lot of complaints from MCPS parents that the school system has begun to push kids too far ahead in math, disregarding developmental appropriateness. Also, it should be noted that MCPS will have a large number of kids working below grade level and I would not expect this to be true for private schools. And private school classes are generally smaller, so I child presumably would have a better chance to learn things in a more in-depth and individualized way.

But as for the level itself -- in terms of the concepts taught and their complexity -- private school on-grade level instruction doesn't tend to be any more advanced that MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GDS parent here. Haven't sent a kid to any of the other schools you mentioned, so this is not a comparison. It's just commentary on our experience with a highly gifted kid who is more language and science-oriented than math-oriented.

On the whole, we've been very happy. In general, major assignments involve enough choice (books, topics, sources) that your DC will set his or her own challenges. Mine decided to do a report on Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" in 4th grade. And chose a sufficiently obscure character for the 5th grade traveling biography project that all of the research involved primary sources or pop-academicy stuff written for adults. In both cases, there was a sort of informed consent process -- where the teacher pointed out the difficulty, asked for a plan, and then said, "ok -- go for it!" In both cases, I thought DC did a great job and DC was excited and engaged throughout. No stress/angst/drama -- just hard work, discovery, a feeling of accomplishment, and ongoing interest in the topics.

There's lots of science from an early age at GDS (starts in PreK) and an emphasis on scientific method. Hands-on projects, reports, field trips, and experiments, broad range of disciplines (biology, earth science, botany, physics, ecology). Some tie-ins to other parts of the curriculum. Basically, science is taught as a way of figuring out the world. For my DC, the effect has been an interest in a career in research.

At the lower school level, math is not differentiated. Some parts are challenging (and therefore fun) for DC -- Continental Math League, logic problems, Math Olympiad have been hits. But the everyday stuff hasn't always been inspiring or challenging and a number of DC's peers have said the same thing. That said, it's clear that at the HS level GDS's curriculum is very challenging (if math's your thing) and that a large cohort (14-18 is the estimate for next year) will make it through a second full year of college level math before they graduate from HS. I'll be curious to see what the bridge from LS to HS looks like and, in retrospect, whether the LS curriculum seems to have been a crucial foundation.

One thing about GDS is that often the process of learning looks effortless. Some parents worry that their kids aren't being pushed hard enough. I don't (in part because I think that with a kid like mine the goal should be to provide tools and get out of the way). What I tend to look at is before and after pictures (what DC could do at the beginning vs. end of the year) and to compare where I was at at the same age. On both measures, I'm very impressed with the education DC is getting. And I think cohort plays a role in that. DC's friends tend to be playfully intellectual, very smart, and good critical thinkers. That's not every GDS kid, but there's certainly a critical mass.

Not every year or teacher is great, but, overall, I can't imagine a better school for my DC.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and experience. This is truly the first post that opened my eyes to the potential value of a private school education. I hope you continue to post often on this board. We could use your perspective!

[Anonymous]

This is not necessarily a bad thing on the part of private schools. There are a lot of complaints from MCPS parents that the school system has begun to push kids too far ahead in math, disregarding developmental appropriateness. Also, it should be noted that MCPS will have a large number of kids working below grade level and I would not expect this to be true for private schools. And private school classes are generally smaller, so I child presumably would have a better chance to learn things in a more in-depth and individualized way.

I doubt that MCPS pushed kids too far ahead in math. The only complaints I hear are from MCPS parents who thought their kids were high flyers and pushed the school to push their kids to try to keep up with the Jones'.