What is the real W&M experience/vibe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:William and Mary’s acceptance rate was 42 percent with an applicant pool that was down. UVA’s was l, I think, around 20 or 21 percent with an applicant pool that was slightly up. Pretty much the same ACT scores, but a big gap between percentage in the top 10 percent. So we know where nova kids think the popular place is. I’m not judging. But wouldn’t this impact the vibe?

Most recent SCHEV data for UVA's in-state admit rate was 38.4% and William and Mary's was 45.1%. That is closer to what a Nova kid would be seeing (although both schools may be more selective that the state average for Nova students -- a different issue). Both schools get a majority of their applications from out-of-state, but yield rates are pretty low -- 24% for UVA and 22% for W&M. For a lot of the OOS kids, the cost of attendance would be similar to a good private school.

Most applicants at both schools don't have a class rank. About 40% or less per the common data sets for enrolled students.

I'd agree that UVA has had more momentum recently. I'm old enough to see this change from time to time. I think William and Mary generally had higher SAT scores for a pretty long period of time. UVA often had slightly higher GPAs. Hard to say if this will change again or when. Things do tend to change though.

I've always thought of these two schools as good complementary options for Virginians. They offer somewhat different experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many students are choosing between W&M and UVA. UVA is the popular school but it’s huge and with the OOS students who are top of their class it’s VERY competitive in all ways: socially, admittance to business and other schools and so on. W&M is a bit more low key and much smaller. Gives an individual student more opportunities.

I can understand that, and to some extent I understand the self-selected applicant pool perspective. And yet ... drops in US News rankings (the coin of the realm) and increases in acceptance rates become self fulfilling things. It sounds like the school is planning to add to its freshman class and go SAT optional for a three year pilot program. That is to say, something seems to be off in terms of it not being very popular.

Schools are trending SAT/ACT optional at a pretty rapid rate. UC System kicked that off and Covid has accelerated it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many students are choosing between W&M and UVA. UVA is the popular school but it’s huge and with the OOS students who are top of their class it’s VERY competitive in all ways: socially, admittance to business and other schools and so on. W&M is a bit more low key and much smaller. Gives an individual student more opportunities.

UVA is "huge" like Penn and Cornell are huge.

Cornell enrollment: 24,027
UVA enrollment: 25,018
Penn enrollment: 26,675

Undergraduate looks like this with percent on campus in parentheses:

Dartmouth 4,459 (90%)
Princeton 5,428 (94%)
Yale 6,092 (84%)
Chicago 6,552 (55%)
Duke 6,682 (85%)
Harvard 6,788 (97%)
Brown 7,043 (72%)
Stanford 8,087 (97%)
Columbia 9,001 (92%)
Penn 10,019 (51%)
Cornell 15,043 (52%)
UVA 17,011 (38%)

So UVA is not huge, but quite large compared to top privates. Most of the top privates are also more residential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:William and Mary’s acceptance rate was 42 percent with an applicant pool that was down. UVA’s was l, I think, around 20 or 21 percent with an applicant pool that was slightly up. Pretty much the same ACT scores, but a big gap between percentage in the top 10 percent. So we know where nova kids think the popular place is. I’m not judging. But wouldn’t this impact the vibe?

Most recent SCHEV data for UVA's in-state admit rate was 38.4% and William and Mary's was 45.1%. That is closer to what a Nova kid would be seeing (although both schools may be more selective that the state average for Nova students -- a different issue). Both schools get a majority of their applications from out-of-state, but yield rates are pretty low -- 24% for UVA and 22% for W&M. For a lot of the OOS kids, the cost of attendance would be similar to a good private school.

Most applicants at both schools don't have a class rank. About 40% or less per the common data sets for enrolled students.

I'd agree that UVA has had more momentum recently. I'm old enough to see this change from time to time. I think William and Mary generally had higher SAT scores for a pretty long period of time. UVA often had slightly higher GPAs. Hard to say if this will change again or when. Things do tend to change though.

I've always thought of these two schools as good complementary options for Virginians. They offer somewhat different experiences.

I just attended a virtual UVA presentation. They said 33% acceptance for instate and 15% out of state.

[Anonymous]

I attended W&M and was an athlete. That experience largely colored my feelings about it. As an athlete, our schedule is so demanding that it makes it hard to relate to "regular" students.

The academics are rigorous (assuming you don't take kinesiology), students are held to a high standard, and there's a strong alumni network. Students had a sense of pride attending the school.

As for the vibe on campus, each student has to find their group like anywhere. I found the student body to be overwhelmingly "nerdy." Kids rocking mickey mouse t-shirts, more interested in studying than anything, etc. There were plenty of frats/sororities, however, for more of a social scene. I lived off-campus after my freshman year to get some space with other roommates, and socialization/big parties always occurred off-campus. There are no bars, per say, so house parties are more common It is Williamsburg, however, so that has an impact. There are more restaurant options now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

I wouldn't say that at all--very open to LGBTQ+, many diverse perspectives. Kids can be athletic, nerdy, middle of the road, outdoorsy, artsy--there's not a strong common type.

And their business school is highly regarded. STEM varies (though obviously marine biology is top-notch). If you're an alum, you're in the minority for your bitterness because W&M regularly gets rated among the top in the country in terms of alum support. If you're not an alum, I'm wondering what's informing your thinking.

There is indeed a very small group of LGBTQ+ students. You should ask them how open they find the rest of the school to be. The answer is very obvious: not very, unless you are comparing to rural Alabama.

Their business school is not highly regarded, it's at best mediocre for a Southern school and when compared to other public schools/flagships. Perhaps if you compare it to say, Eastern Tennessee University it's 'good'.

Their STEM is terrible. Yes VIMs and NASA helps them with a few faculty for Biology and Physics, but those subjects are still very mediocre and no where near good STEM public schools (i.e. UIUC, Purdue, Berkeley, Michigan, etc.). The rest of the sciences and Math are utterly terrible. Engineering and Technology doesn't exist obviously

You are just a troll that wants to throw some stuff out there and see if you can make it stick. The business school ranks 13th out of about 800 or so U.S. business schools that are accredited for ROI after 5 years according according to Poets and Quants. It is 12th after 10 years. W&M produces a higher percentage of graduates that go on to earn STEM PhDs than any national public university other than UC Berkeley. Medical school admission rate has long been about 25 percentage points over the national average.

[Anonymous]

During a stroll around the campus last summer, I was struck by how well-off all of the students looked, the female students in particular. I checked the most recent NYT infographic on college students’ family income and I was correct: 73% of W&M students come from families making the highest 20%ile of income. I was also interested in the gender disparity.

I don’t have a point, just intrigued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:During a stroll around the campus last summer, I was struck by how well-off all of the students looked, the female students in particular. I checked the most recent NYT infographic on college students’ family income and I was correct: 73% of W&M students come from families making the highest 20%ile of income. I was also interested in the gender disparity.

I don’t have a point, just intrigued.

First of all, in the summer, you are only seeing the students that can afford to go to summer school. Second, the demographics are similar to those for any LAC. Not really different that UVA, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of rising senior at W&M.

Pros: Academically challenging, plenty of social opportunities but not a big party school, pretty tolerant of all types except maybe political conservatives, smaller classes with lots of professor interaction

Cons: After 4 years, Williamsburg feels small and boring.

But isn’t this true of most college towns?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who really cares about the actual town where a college is located? I thought Williamsburg was a pretty little town. It will never be a big city. Go to NYU or GW if you need big city options.

Exactly. Most smallish colleges not in a city aren’t exactly located in exiting towns. So what kids get together and have fun. This isn’t something unique to Williamsburg, and at least Williamsburg is pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who really cares about the actual town where a college is located? I thought Williamsburg was a pretty little town. It will never be a big city. Go to NYU or GW if you need big city options.

Exactly. Most smallish colleges not in a city aren’t exactly located in exiting towns. So what kids get together and have fun. This isn’t something unique to Williamsburg, and at least Williamsburg is pretty.

Learn to spell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many students are choosing between W&M and UVA. UVA is the popular school but it’s huge and with the OOS students who are top of their class it’s VERY competitive in all ways: socially, admittance to business and other schools and so on. W&M is a bit more low key and much smaller. Gives an individual student more opportunities.

UVA is "huge" like Penn and Cornell are huge.

Cornell enrollment: 24,027
UVA enrollment: 25,018
Penn enrollment: 26,675

Cornell and Penn are Ivies with international reputation. UVA is a popular state school but not in the same level. It just isn’t. Not an even comparison. UVA should be compared to Michigan or Berkeley.

[Anonymous]

Enrollment at W&M might be down due to cost. Total cost = $43K. That’s almost twice UVA or Vtech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Enrollment at W&M might be down due to cost. Total cost = $43K. That’s almost twice UVA or Vtech.

Simple math isn't your strong suit, is it? It's not even close to being twice as expensive and the cost is capped for four years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Enrollment at W&M might be down due to cost. Total cost = $43K. That’s almost twice UVA or Vtech.

UVA is 34000 to the university. W&M instate is 36300 to the university.

VT is about 25K.

Unless you went to UVA, 34000*2 is not 36300.