What is the real W&M experience/vibe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

I don’t understand the UVA comment. W&M is regarded as on par if not superior to UVA...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

I don’t understand the UVA comment. W&M is regarded as on par if not superior to UVA...

Among the adult population perhaps. Among male students, many prefer to go to UVA because of its better name recognition, sports, business schools, party culture, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much nonsense here. It’s a charming town and a beautiful campus. Academically challenging, with a work hard, play hard vibe. Student body generally mainstream liberal. Williamsburg is a liberal enclave. The momentum thing is an issue — the school capped off a billion dollar fundraising drive, barely nudging the ball over the target goalpost, but getting there nonetheless. I am somewhat concerned about the female to male ratio and an increasing admission rate. But it’ll always be the country’s second oldest college, and it’s a special place in so many ways.

It certainly doesn't have a "work hard, party hard" vibe.

Williamsburg is not a liberal enclave. The town is overwhelmingly Republican/conservative; the student population that drives it blue in elections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a little concerned by some of the posts about grade deflation because graduate/professional school will be on the horizon. Also concerning is the announcement regarding voluntary furloughs for employees and leadership taking salary cuts. However, I know that COVID-19's financial impact is being felt everywhere including the Ivies and there is widespread uncertainty in higher ed.

Schools that are best positioned are massive public research institutions that are often flagships and have state governments supportive of higher education (i.e. Berkeley, UCLA, Texas, Washington) or universities with massive endowments (UVA, Michigan, Ivies, Texas again).

W&M is neither a research institution, nor a flagship, nor does it have a large endowment for its size. The result will be increasing enrollment, decreasing standards and worse faculty due to lack of competitive salaries (which has been true for a while at the school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much nonsense here. It’s a charming town and a beautiful campus. Academically challenging, with a work hard, play hard vibe. Student body generally mainstream liberal. Williamsburg is a liberal enclave. The momentum thing is an issue — the school capped off a billion dollar fundraising drive, barely nudging the ball over the target goalpost, but getting there nonetheless. I am somewhat concerned about the female to male ratio and an increasing admission rate. But it’ll always be the country’s second oldest college, and it’s a special place in so many ways.

I’m an alum. It is a work hard school, but definitely not a play hard school. Not even close.
You can’t put it in the same category as Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Lehigh, and other schools known as “Work hard, play hard” schools. It doesn’t have the hard partying atmosphere.
It’s more a work hard, hang out and have fun with your friends kinda school.

It's so easy to know 'parents' or those who have very superficial knowledge of the school and their impression of the school (basically based on positive stereotypes and cliches) versus the view of actual alumni.

[Anonymous]

wm education>UVa
wm experience< UVa
choose what you value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems with W&M is that it's extremely strict on grading (which would be fine if not for), student codes, and social codes.

It's a very conservative social culture. Not necessarily politically conservative or religious, but conservative as in very judgemental of any freedom/liberties. It's really not a good place to find yourself in as a college kid when you want to be exploring the world. Large part of this is being in the South.

Also there's a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby it has a terrible reputation as a school socially, and only those that don't care about social culture go there, realize that it has a terrible social culture and don't enjoy their time there, tell others that it has a terrible social culture, etc.

A lot of male kids that go their do so because they didn't get into UVA, which worsens resentment towards the already extremely bad school.

Being in Williamsburg, a terrible town by any standard full of retirees and the type of tourists who want to go to Colonial Williamsburg (again, retirees), further worsens the deficits of the school.

The only good part of W&M is that its better to go there than massive 30,000-student public schools for those majoring in certain humanities - English, etc. - because of the small class sizes although the course selection is very limited. STEM and Business education are both terribly weak.

But anyone not majoring in humanities and anyone that can go to private LACs and mid-sized universities should do so.

OP here. Again, I've heard all this before, but people who say these things seem to say so from "what they've heard." That's why I asked for opinions from those with first-hand experience. I'm not sure why, but W&M seems to generate a set of cliches and stereotypes that are incongruent with the experiences of those who attend. Perhaps, the stereotypes are judgements about the type of student (e.g. introverts) who attends W&M, not the school experience itself.

I'm not saying so from "what they've heard". And all the other accounts of the school have been from parents, which is not first-hand experience.

Ironically, the cliches/stereotypes of the school tends to be very positive among parents and others - "intellectual", "welcoming", "cooperative", "quirky", "academic", etc.

The reality is as I posted above. The school is not conservative or judgemental - if you are from the deep South. The town is not terribly boring and parochial - if you grew up in a rural farm and have never been to a city.

The town is absolutely terrible and one of the worst "college towns" in the country, not because it is necessarily unsafe or run-down (although some areas are underdeveloped and have a trailer-park feel as many rural areas in the South are), but because its parochial, boring, non-existent and absolutely filled with retirees everywhere. The point about retirees is that they like living near a historical college, but absolutely hate, and I mean abhor, detest, students - especially if these students are from a different persuasion (read: It's in the South).

There is no grade deflation in STEM or Business - again primarily because these subjects are very weak generally. You could argue that there is grade deflation in the humanities, but in reality it's really just a difficulty in getting A's. A student could turn in a mediocre paper and get a B+. A student could turn in a top-notch paper and still get the same B+.

You can't really disassociate the school itself from the students that attend it, the town that it is in, and the people that run it.

You could say the professors are kind and understanding, which may be true but that's not much different from any other SLAC (professors tend to be more busy/less understanding in research universities). Some of the professors in the humanities are good, but the rest the subjects aren't very distinguished at all.

So I guess I’ll say this about your rant: sorry you dint get into UVA, would be my guess.

What a weird post, where have I mentioned UVA in my post, and what does it have to do with W&M?

Yeah, man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little concerned by some of the posts about grade deflation because graduate/professional school will be on the horizon. Also concerning is the announcement regarding voluntary furloughs for employees and leadership taking salary cuts. However, I know that COVID-19's financial impact is being felt everywhere including the Ivies and there is widespread uncertainty in higher ed.

Schools that are best positioned are massive public research institutions that are often flagships and have state governments supportive of higher education (i.e. Berkeley, UCLA, Texas, Washington) or universities with massive endowments (UVA, Michigan, Ivies, Texas again).

W&M is neither a research institution, nor a flagship, nor does it have a large endowment for its size. The result will be increasing enrollment, decreasing standards and worse faculty due to lack of competitive salaries (which has been true for a while at the school).

Jfc man, the chip on the shoulder is massive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much nonsense here. It’s a charming town and a beautiful campus. Academically challenging, with a work hard, play hard vibe. Student body generally mainstream liberal. Williamsburg is a liberal enclave. The momentum thing is an issue — the school capped off a billion dollar fundraising drive, barely nudging the ball over the target goalpost, but getting there nonetheless. I am somewhat concerned about the female to male ratio and an increasing admission rate. But it’ll always be the country’s second oldest college, and it’s a special place in so many ways.

It certainly doesn't have a "work hard, party hard" vibe.

Williamsburg is not a liberal enclave. The town is overwhelmingly Republican/conservative; the student population that drives it blue in elections.

It voted heavily democratic in 2016.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a little concerned by some of the posts about grade deflation because graduate/professional school will be on the horizon. Also concerning is the announcement regarding voluntary furloughs for employees and leadership taking salary cuts. However, I know that COVID-19's financial impact is being felt everywhere including the Ivies and there is widespread uncertainty in higher ed.

There is no grade deflation anywhere in higher education. Only varying degrees of grade inflation. Look at Gradinflation.com. Most recent average GPAs at some top publics:

Michigan - 3.37
W&M - 3.33
UVA - 3.32
Berkeley - 3.29
Washington - 3.28
UCLA - 3.27
UNC - 3.23
Texas - 3.22
VT - 3.15

The salary cuts from leaders are being done many places (UVA did the same). They are trying to set an example in case layoffs are needed (if room and board revenue is lost if students have to be sent home again).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a little concerned by some of the posts about grade deflation because graduate/professional school will be on the horizon. Also concerning is the announcement regarding voluntary furloughs for employees and leadership taking salary cuts. However, I know that COVID-19's financial impact is being felt everywhere including the Ivies and there is widespread uncertainty in higher ed.

Schools that are best positioned are massive public research institutions that are often flagships and have state governments supportive of higher education (i.e. Berkeley, UCLA, Texas, Washington) or universities with massive endowments (UVA, Michigan, Ivies, Texas again).

W&M is neither a research institution, nor a flagship, nor does it have a large endowment for its size. The result will be increasing enrollment, decreasing standards and worse faculty due to lack of competitive salaries (which has been true for a while at the school).

You tout the big public research schools for faculty. Take a look at Niche ratings based on surveys. If you look at Michigan, UCLA, Berkeley, Washington, Texas, UVA, and UNC, you will see that W&M scores higher than every single one of these schools in every single one of these ratings:

Professors put a lot of effort into their classes
Easy to get classes students want
Professors are passionate about what they teach
Professors care about student success
Professors are engaging and easy to understand
Professors are approachable and helpful

And what public university of W&M's size has a larger endowment?

[Anonymous]

Who really cares about the actual town where a college is located? I thought Williamsburg was a pretty little town. It will never be a big city. Go to NYU or GW if you need big city options.

[Anonymous]

Current parent with two pieces of advice - 1) Reach our to the college counselors at your school and have your child ask them for the names of recent grads who have enrolled at W&M. Let your child speak/email with them to get their perspective, especially as it relates to grade deflation. I don’t believe the grade deflation reputation, I think it’s an issue of high school grade INflation, where students think their work is an “A” based on high school, but in reality is only a “B”. My child came from local private school and hasn’t felt like there is any grade deflation. 2)W&M wants the intellectual development of your student. If that is not priority #1 for your student, than it might not be the best fit. Yes, there are sports, clubs, service and Greek life, students can and do have fun! My student is very happy academically and socially. But they knew going into it that big football game days wasn’t a top priority for them. If that is important to your student, than W&M might not be the best fit.

[Anonymous]

My DC is a rising senior
at W&M. Chose W&M over UVA thinking they would have more opportunities at a smaller school. Worked out perfectly. DC LOVES W&M.
A serious student work hard/ play hard. Got to do everything they wanted to do in college there. The CW as they call it doesn’t play a big role in campus life but they love the quaintness of it.
Many of our neighbors here in NOVA have students at W&M. Very happy about it and making the grades for grad school (medicine). Another neighbor DS did the St Andrews program and loved that.
My DC got job offers beginning of senior year.
There is a party scene but it’s not a school where you can drink every night and still hold up your grades. That said they didn’t find it pressure cooker just you DO have to study. As a small liberal arts experience for a VA resident you can’t beat it for the price.
Freshman dorms are awful but they are phasing them out. It’s a good school! And not so easy to get into either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC is a rising senior
at W&M. Chose W&M over UVA thinking they would have more opportunities at a smaller school. Worked out perfectly. DC LOVES W&M.
A serious student work hard/ play hard. Got to do everything they wanted to do in college there. The CW as they call it doesn’t play a big role in campus life but they love the quaintness of it.
Many of our neighbors here in NOVA have students at W&M. Very happy about it and making the grades for grad school (medicine). Another neighbor DS did the St Andrews program and loved that.
My DC got job offers beginning of senior year.
There is a party scene but it’s not a school where you can drink every night and still hold up your grades. That said they didn’t find it pressure cooker just you DO have to study. As a small liberal arts experience for a VA resident[b] you can’t beat it for the price.[b]
Freshman dorms are awful but they are phasing them out. It’s a good school! And not so easy to get into either.

I mean it’s $40k/yr. I cannot believe a public college is allowed to charge that much!!