China Retaliates Against the U.S. With Its Own Higher Tariffs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the "above poster", I literally am in the middle of this trade war because I am engaged in international trade. I pay a portion of these tariffs that are going up. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Sure whatever. You can be whomever you want to be on the Internet. But the fact is, that Americans will pay more due to this unnecessary trade war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/us-china-trade-tariffs.html

Economists differ in their forecasts of how much tariffs on both sides will reduce economic growth, but most agree that the cost of tariffs is passed on to businesses or consumers in the form of higher prices.

The president’s economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, on Sunday said that both the United States and China would “suffer” as a result of the tariffs.

Okay, well given that it's an anonymous forum, the fact that you are engaging means you are by default in acceptance of certain claims of facts. You are free to challenge them, and I'm willing to discuss my knowledge international trade in any way to establish my "bona fides".

Again, very few people wants to fight a war for the sake of the war itself, but rather people reluctantly enters war in order to achieve some goal after the war. People like you who keeps talking about the effects of the war itself is not convince those of us who are focused on the goals of the war, which is a more open and fair trading partner in China, to the benefit of both the US and China, and those free-loading Europeans who will obviously turn to China and say "I'll have what the US is having."

DP. I just don't understand how we will get from A to Z.

It doesn't seem like you do either. You're just hoping that somehow something good will happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a fan of Trump but I agree with him on China. For too long we have allowed them to steal our IP, block imports and subsidize exports. The mistake Trump is making is that he has alienated our allies so that there is no unified approach.

I used to think this as well, but do you seriously think that anyone in the EU is going to work effectively and efficiently with the US in a trade discussion with China? Seriously? Those guys trip over themselves trying to counter balance the power of the US. For them, snubbing US is a competitive sport among their own little group. Just look at their actions in the UN and their attitude towards NATO. Dragging them along, and I do mean dragging, will only slow down the progress at the best, and at the worst one or more of them may side with China on certain issues and cause the process to implode.

I'm not going to say it's smart for Trump to leave other countries out, because I don't know if he seriously thought about the above dynamics, maybe he knew it at an instinctive level. He seems to be all for bilateral negotiations, seems to be just how he prefer things to be done.

So because Trump is incapable of working with others, then it's good that he doesn't bother with allies.

You seem to be under the impression that the ill behavior of European leaders towards US started with Trump. This is not the case. It's been going on since the end of WWII. Trump's behavior hasn't helped, I agree, but I doubt anyone would have changed this fact. Just look at Obama - he is all for pleasing the international community, was vocally open to relinquishing some sovereign powers of the US by defaulting to international governing bodies. What did that positive attitude get him from the UN? Didly squat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the "above poster", I literally am in the middle of this trade war because I am engaged in international trade. I pay a portion of these tariffs that are going up. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Sure whatever. You can be whomever you want to be on the Internet. But the fact is, that Americans will pay more due to this unnecessary trade war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/us-china-trade-tariffs.html

Economists differ in their forecasts of how much tariffs on both sides will reduce economic growth, but most agree that the cost of tariffs is passed on to businesses or consumers in the form of higher prices.

The president’s economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, on Sunday said that both the United States and China would “suffer” as a result of the tariffs.

Okay, well given that it's an anonymous forum, the fact that you are engaging means you are by default in acceptance of certain claims of facts. You are free to challenge them, and I'm willing to discuss my knowledge international trade in any way to establish my "bona fides".

Again, very few people wants to fight a war for the sake of the war itself, but rather people reluctantly enters war in order to achieve some goal after the war. People like you who keeps talking about the effects of the war itself is not convince those of us who are focused on the goals of the war, which is a more open and fair trading partner in China, to the benefit of both the US and China, and those free-loading Europeans who will obviously turn to China and say "I'll have what the US is having."

DP. I just don't understand how we will get from A to Z.

It doesn't seem like you do either. You're just hoping that somehow something good will happen.

+1 Another dope who wants to ignore history and follow Trump's stupid whims blindly.

[Anonymous]

Glad I moved to a cash position a few weeks ago!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stock market is not liking the Trump tarriffs.

Yea, if you get into a fist fight, your fist is going to sting a little from pounding the other guy's face in.

Hundreds of years of data would suggest that both sides are going to suffer from this trade war. But keep going on with your crude metaphors...

Yea, I have to use a crude metaphor because the liberals seem so focused on wishing ill on Trump's efforts that they forget whose side they are on. Trump is doing this because China is cheating/stealing from the US, that's all of us, every man, woman, and child, immigrant or citizen. Every one of us.

If Trump is successful in getting China to trade more fairly, then both the US and China stands to benefit greatly in the future. Hundreds of years of history shows that sometimes a war is necessary.

Spoken like an unemployed loser living in a basement who gets his social welfare payment either way. Millions of American workers are going to suffer from these tarrifs.

Liar. -DP

Everyone loses in a trade war. Even Trump's chief economic adviser knows that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/us/politics/larry-kudlow-trump-trade.html

Larry Kudlow Breaks With Trump, Saying ‘Both Sides Will Pay’ in Trade War With China

President Trump’s chief economic adviser said on Sunday that American consumers would bear a burden from the escalating trade war with China, contradicting Mr. Trump’s claim that his tariffs were a multibillion-dollar, one-way payment by China to the United States Treasury.

The adviser, Larry Kudlow, made his comments two days after negotiations for a trade deal with China broke off and Mr. Trump followed through on a threat to raise tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese exports.

“In fact, both sides will pay,” Mr. Kudlow said in an interview on Fox News. “Both sides will pay in these things.”

Mr. Kudlow’s acknowledgment was merely a recognition of Economics 101. But it flew in the face of one of the president’s favorite arguments: that trade wars are easy to win, and that the pain falls disproportionately on America’s trading partners, which he accuses of having exploited the United States for years through predatory trade practices.

Yea, but sometimes a war is necessary to change behavior. The US fought a revolutionary war for its independence, a civil war to abolish slavery, WWI/WWII to end imperialism, and subsequent wars in attempts to contain communism and terrorism. I wish we didn't have to have a trade war with China. I wish China was more like Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea, the economic prosperity of which has demonstrated that US is a friendly and cooperative trading partner.

DCUM Libs need to listen to the above poster.

Why? The above poster cites no data that this trade war will lead to a positive outcome. The above poster isn't going to be funding the families where the employees get laid off because demand for their goods drops off because of tariff hikes.

??? I'm the "above poster". Unlike our liberal friends, I am not someone who claims to know what the future will bring. I am not certain that Trump will be successful with his efforts in this trade war. I do know for certain that getting China to be more fair and open with its trade will benefit both the US and China. The data on this is born out by the fact that it's precisely these more fair and open practices that has brought the economic boom to China. China's GDP is now majorly comprised of private enterprises, with state owned enterprises contributing a substantial minority. The trading activity between the US and China has not just been in terms of material goods, but also in cultural exchange and an expansion of our mutual understanding. This is why no one seriously ponders a potential war between the US and China even if China is aggressively expanding its military reach in the world. This is in stark contrast to the tension that was felt between the US and USSR.

So I don't know the outcome of the trade war, but know with some degree of certainty that a more open and fairly trading China is beneficial to all, so I am supporting Trump's efforts towards this goal by engaging in a trade war.

Agree 100%.
You are the wise voice of reason on DCUM.

I prefer to read newspapers and believe the economists and data scientists who say that this trade war will be costly to the American economy.

And the decades old “business as usual” with China will eventually control America. But heck, isn’t that exactly what you Liberals want?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if China is hurt more than us, we're still going to get hurt. And a hurt China won't heal us.

The hope is that the trade war will prod China into trading more fairly, which will bring about economic prosperity in both the US and China. The thinking is that the pain from the trade war is worth it considering what benefits we will get from it in the future.

Great, then bring the pain! Let the Dow tank!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if China is hurt more than us, we're still going to get hurt. And a hurt China won't heal us.

The hope is that the trade war will prod China into trading more fairly, which will bring about economic prosperity in both the US and China. The thinking is that the pain from the trade war is worth it considering what benefits we will get from it in the future.

Great, then bring the pain! Let the Dow tank!

It already is tanking. Have you not seen the markets since Trump made his announcement last week?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stock market is not liking the Trump tarriffs.

Yea, if you get into a fist fight, your fist is going to sting a little from pounding the other guy's face in.

Hundreds of years of data would suggest that both sides are going to suffer from this trade war. But keep going on with your crude metaphors...

Yea, I have to use a crude metaphor because the liberals seem so focused on wishing ill on Trump's efforts that they forget whose side they are on. Trump is doing this because China is cheating/stealing from the US, that's all of us, every man, woman, and child, immigrant or citizen. Every one of us.

If Trump is successful in getting China to trade more fairly, then both the US and China stands to benefit greatly in the future. Hundreds of years of history shows that sometimes a war is necessary.

Spoken like an unemployed loser living in a basement who gets his social welfare payment either way. Millions of American workers are going to suffer from these tarrifs.

Liar. -DP

Everyone loses in a trade war. Even Trump's chief economic adviser knows that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/us/politics/larry-kudlow-trump-trade.html

Larry Kudlow Breaks With Trump, Saying ‘Both Sides Will Pay’ in Trade War With China

President Trump’s chief economic adviser said on Sunday that American consumers would bear a burden from the escalating trade war with China, contradicting Mr. Trump’s claim that his tariffs were a multibillion-dollar, one-way payment by China to the United States Treasury.

The adviser, Larry Kudlow, made his comments two days after negotiations for a trade deal with China broke off and Mr. Trump followed through on a threat to raise tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese exports.

“In fact, both sides will pay,” Mr. Kudlow said in an interview on Fox News. “Both sides will pay in these things.”

Mr. Kudlow’s acknowledgment was merely a recognition of Economics 101. But it flew in the face of one of the president’s favorite arguments: that trade wars are easy to win, and that the pain falls disproportionately on America’s trading partners, which he accuses of having exploited the United States for years through predatory trade practices.

Yea, but sometimes a war is necessary to change behavior. The US fought a revolutionary war for its independence, a civil war to abolish slavery, WWI/WWII to end imperialism, and subsequent wars in attempts to contain communism and terrorism. I wish we didn't have to have a trade war with China. I wish China was more like Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea, the economic prosperity of which has demonstrated that US is a friendly and cooperative trading partner.

DCUM Libs need to listen to the above poster.

Why? The above poster cites no data that this trade war will lead to a positive outcome. The above poster isn't going to be funding the families where the employees get laid off because demand for their goods drops off because of tariff hikes.

??? I'm the "above poster". Unlike our liberal friends, I am not someone who claims to know what the future will bring. I am not certain that Trump will be successful with his efforts in this trade war. I do know for certain that getting China to be more fair and open with its trade will benefit both the US and China. The data on this is born out by the fact that it's precisely these more fair and open practices that has brought the economic boom to China. China's GDP is now majorly comprised of private enterprises, with state owned enterprises contributing a substantial minority. The trading activity between the US and China has not just been in terms of material goods, but also in cultural exchange and an expansion of our mutual understanding. This is why no one seriously ponders a potential war between the US and China even if China is aggressively expanding its military reach in the world. This is in stark contrast to the tension that was felt between the US and USSR.

So I don't know the outcome of the trade war, but know with some degree of certainty that a more open and fairly trading China is beneficial to all, so I am supporting Trump's efforts towards this goal by engaging in a trade war.

Agree 100%.
You are the wise voice of reason on DCUM.

I prefer to read newspapers and believe the economists and data scientists who say that this trade war will be costly to the American economy.

And the decades old “business as usual” with China will eventually control America. But heck, isn’t that exactly what you Liberals want?

So basically, you don't read, you don't look at data, but you believe the trade war is good. Got it! Enjoy your ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if China is hurt more than us, we're still going to get hurt. And a hurt China won't heal us.

The hope is that the trade war will prod China into trading more fairly, which will bring about economic prosperity in both the US and China. The thinking is that the pain from the trade war is worth it considering what benefits we will get from it in the future.

Great, then bring the pain! Let the Dow tank!

It already is tanking. Have you not seen the markets since Trump made his announcement last week?

Stocks are on track for their worse day in 2019 as the trade war escalates.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dow-futures-drop-over-200-points-as-u-s-china-trade-talks-appear-stalled-2019-05-13

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the "above poster", I literally am in the middle of this trade war because I am engaged in international trade. I pay a portion of these tariffs that are going up. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Sure whatever. You can be whomever you want to be on the Internet. But the fact is, that Americans will pay more due to this unnecessary trade war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/us-china-trade-tariffs.html

Economists differ in their forecasts of how much tariffs on both sides will reduce economic growth, but most agree that the cost of tariffs is passed on to businesses or consumers in the form of higher prices.

The president’s economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, on Sunday said that both the United States and China would “suffer” as a result of the tariffs.

Okay, well given that it's an anonymous forum, the fact that you are engaging means you are by default in acceptance of certain claims of facts. You are free to challenge them, and I'm willing to discuss my knowledge international trade in any way to establish my "bona fides".

Again, very few people wants to fight a war for the sake of the war itself, but rather people reluctantly enters war in order to achieve some goal after the war. People like you who keeps talking about the effects of the war itself is not convince those of us who are focused on the goals of the war, which is a more open and fair trading partner in China, to the benefit of both the US and China, and those free-loading Europeans who will obviously turn to China and say "I'll have what the US is having."

DP. I just don't understand how we will get from A to Z.

It doesn't seem like you do either. You're just hoping that somehow something good will happen.

What do you mean how do we get from A to Z. How did the US get from pre-civil war slavery to post-civil war abolition? Sure, the south "lost" the war, but we can all agree that the entire US, including the south, is better for having abolished slavery. Do you disagree? So even if China "loses" the trade war by agreeing to the conditions requested by the US, their country stands to benefit greatly.

I am also under the impression that you don't seem to know that China has substantially agreed to all of the trade policy changes that the US has requested. The sticking point is that the US has asked for these changes to be codified into Chinese law so that they are enforceable. China's quibble on this point is two folds: privately, they want to be able to cheat on the new policy so they don't like having it written into their law, and publicly, they don't like the appearance that the US is now dictating what they have on their law books - it's a slap on the face for them especially since it was considered a historical period of shame that China leased off parts of itself to western countries due to its debt and having lost the opium war. China does not want to appear to be weak and subjugated by the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the "above poster", I literally am in the middle of this trade war because I am engaged in international trade. I pay a portion of these tariffs that are going up. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Sure whatever. You can be whomever you want to be on the Internet. But the fact is, that Americans will pay more due to this unnecessary trade war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/us-china-trade-tariffs.html

Economists differ in their forecasts of how much tariffs on both sides will reduce economic growth, but most agree that the cost of tariffs is passed on to businesses or consumers in the form of higher prices.

The president’s economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, on Sunday said that both the United States and China would “suffer” as a result of the tariffs.

Okay, well given that it's an anonymous forum, the fact that you are engaging means you are by default in acceptance of certain claims of facts. You are free to challenge them, and I'm willing to discuss my knowledge international trade in any way to establish my "bona fides".

Again, very few people wants to fight a war for the sake of the war itself, but rather people reluctantly enters war in order to achieve some goal after the war. People like you who keeps talking about the effects of the war itself is not convince those of us who are focused on the goals of the war, which is a more open and fair trading partner in China, to the benefit of both the US and China, and those free-loading Europeans who will obviously turn to China and say "I'll have what the US is having."

That's your opinion. Economists and other experts disagree. Most people would prefer not to fight wars where both sides end up worse off. Trump doesn't understand tariffs or foreign policy and even his own party is trying to get him to see reason as he attempts to drive the economy into the ground.

Sorry, what? Economists and other experts don't believe that a more open and fair trading China is a benefit to both US and China, as well as Europeans? Can you quote any of these economists and experts? I point to China's past 2 decades of impressive economic growth as proof that a more open and fairly trading china is beneficial to China, the US, and Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

??? I'm the "above poster". Unlike our liberal friends, I am not someone who claims to know what the future will bring. I am not certain that Trump will be successful with his efforts in this trade war. I do know for certain that getting China to be more fair and open with its trade will benefit both the US and China. The data on this is born out by the fact that it's precisely these more fair and open practices that has brought the economic boom to China. China's GDP is now majorly comprised of private enterprises, with state owned enterprises contributing a substantial minority. The trading activity between the US and China has not just been in terms of material goods, but also in cultural exchange and an expansion of our mutual understanding. This is why no one seriously ponders a potential war between the US and China even if China is aggressively expanding its military reach in the world. This is in stark contrast to the tension that was felt between the US and USSR.

So I don't know the outcome of the trade war, but know with some degree of certainty that a more open and fairly trading China is beneficial to all, so I am supporting Trump's efforts towards this goal by engaging in a trade war.

Agree 100%.
You are the wise voice of reason on DCUM.

I prefer to read newspapers and believe the economists and data scientists who say that this trade war will be costly to the American economy.

And the decades old “business as usual” with China will eventually control America. But heck, isn’t that exactly what you Liberals want?

So basically, you don't read, you don't look at data, but you believe the trade war is good. Got it! Enjoy your ignorance.

I'm the "above poster". It's ironic that your rebuttal is "you don't read", since no one in this thread is arguing that a trade war is good in and of itself, only that sometimes a trade war is necessary to change undesirable behavior.

Let me ask you this, do you believe it was wrong for the US to fight a civil war to end slavery, because "wars are bad"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the "above poster", I literally am in the middle of this trade war because I am engaged in international trade. I pay a portion of these tariffs that are going up. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Sure whatever. You can be whomever you want to be on the Internet. But the fact is, that Americans will pay more due to this unnecessary trade war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/us-china-trade-tariffs.html

Economists differ in their forecasts of how much tariffs on both sides will reduce economic growth, but most agree that the cost of tariffs is passed on to businesses or consumers in the form of higher prices.

The president’s economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, on Sunday said that both the United States and China would “suffer” as a result of the tariffs.

Okay, well given that it's an anonymous forum, the fact that you are engaging means you are by default in acceptance of certain claims of facts. You are free to challenge them, and I'm willing to discuss my knowledge international trade in any way to establish my "bona fides".

Again, very few people wants to fight a war for the sake of the war itself, but rather people reluctantly enters war in order to achieve some goal after the war. People like you who keeps talking about the effects of the war itself is not convince those of us who are focused on the goals of the war, which is a more open and fair trading partner in China, to the benefit of both the US and China, and those free-loading Europeans who will obviously turn to China and say "I'll have what the US is having."

That's your opinion. Economists and other experts disagree. Most people would prefer not to fight wars where both sides end up worse off. Trump doesn't understand tariffs or foreign policy and even his own party is trying to get him to see reason as he attempts to drive the economy into the ground.

Sorry, what? Economists and other experts don't believe that a more open and fair trading China is a benefit to both US and China, as well as Europeans? Can you quote any of these economists and experts? I point to China's past 2 decades of impressive economic growth as proof that a more open and fairly trading china is beneficial to China, the US, and Europe.

You must have reading comprehension issues. Economist and other experts have noted that Americans will pay higher prices as a result of these trade wars. Including Trump's own chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow. You're assuming that the result of the trade war will be a China that trades more openly. But you haven't explained how that is going to happen when China just slapped tariffs on many American goods today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the "above poster", I literally am in the middle of this trade war because I am engaged in international trade. I pay a portion of these tariffs that are going up. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Sure whatever. You can be whomever you want to be on the Internet. But the fact is, that Americans will pay more due to this unnecessary trade war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/us-china-trade-tariffs.html

Economists differ in their forecasts of how much tariffs on both sides will reduce economic growth, but most agree that the cost of tariffs is passed on to businesses or consumers in the form of higher prices.

The president’s economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, on Sunday said that both the United States and China would “suffer” as a result of the tariffs.

Okay, well given that it's an anonymous forum, the fact that you are engaging means you are by default in acceptance of certain claims of facts. You are free to challenge them, and I'm willing to discuss my knowledge international trade in any way to establish my "bona fides".

Again, very few people wants to fight a war for the sake of the war itself, but rather people reluctantly enters war in order to achieve some goal after the war. People like you who keeps talking about the effects of the war itself is not convince those of us who are focused on the goals of the war, which is a more open and fair trading partner in China, to the benefit of both the US and China, and those free-loading Europeans who will obviously turn to China and say "I'll have what the US is having."

That's your opinion. Economists and other experts disagree. Most people would prefer not to fight wars where both sides end up worse off. Trump doesn't understand tariffs or foreign policy and even his own party is trying to get him to see reason as he attempts to drive the economy into the ground.

Sorry, what? Economists and other experts don't believe that a more open and fair trading China is a benefit to both US and China, as well as Europeans? Can you quote any of these economists and experts? I point to China's past 2 decades of impressive economic growth as proof that a more open and fairly trading china is beneficial to China, the US, and Europe.

You must have reading comprehension issues. Economist and other experts have noted that Americans will pay higher prices as a result of these trade wars. Including Trump's own chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow. You're assuming that the result of the trade war will be a China that trades more openly. But you haven't explained how that is going to happen when China just slapped tariffs on many American goods today.

+1 Like someone said upthread, the PP is hoping something good will happen. But there's no evidence that it will. And there's plenty of evidence that higher tariffs will lead to higher prices and lost jobs in certain industries.

[Anonymous]

I don’t want China owning Americans.