My kid got rejected with 99th percentile Cogat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not OP, but can you really prep your kid up to getting 99th percentile? Isn't that basically not missing any questions?

Even casual exposure to the types of questions raises a score a lot. Especially quantitative. I’m always skeptical of high quant scores.

I wish FCPS used an achievement test, like the MAP testing, in addition to the ability tests. The schools would get a much clearer picture if they could see how the achievement levels matched up with the ability scores. Iready seemed like it was going to be used that way, but then kind of was dropped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not OP, but can you really prep your kid up to getting 99th percentile? Isn't that basically not missing any questions?

Even casual exposure to the types of questions raises a score a lot. Especially quantitative. I’m always skeptical of high quant scores.

I wish FCPS used an achievement test, like the MAP testing, in addition to the ability tests. The schools would get a much clearer picture if they could see how the achievement levels matched up with the ability scores. Iready seemed like it was going to be used that way, but then kind of was dropped.

Then you would just see kids working ahead in curriculum with tutors or just their parents to try and get an edge. An average kid who has been taught fractions and exponents will look smarter than a child with higher reasoning skills who hasn’t been exposed yet. There is no way to do this fairly. None.

[Anonymous]

I don't think there's any selection metrics that can't be gamed or broken. Even if FCPS required an IQ test, people would find a way to prep for the WISC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.

From someone who had one kid with a 15 gbrs and one with a 16: the gbrs should carry a lot of weight but I could definitely see how kids could fall through the cracks and not get the gbrs deserved. I previously taught and know that during the local committee meetings, we boosted gbrs as high as legitimately possible for kids with lower scores who truly stood out as gifted. So if a kid with a 120 cogat was considered, wed give a very high gbrs bc he belonged in aap.

Actually a lot of the truly gifted kids are probably annoying as hell, extremely noncompliant, and can also grate on the teachers -- asking impossible questions and in case of kids on the spectrum, not reading social cues, talking too much, not following directions etc. Not every gifted kid is going to present as "mature", that's for darned sure, due to the delights of asynchronous development in the highly gifted. The math genius in my kid's middle school had trouble sitting in his seat and seemed to spend a lot of time sitting under his desk. When I read about a kid with a 99 percent not getting into the program, that was my first thought -- extremely bright kids sometimes simply baffle teachers, I think. When they encounter these guys, their first thought is not necessary 'what a gifted child' but more like "why is he sucking on his shirt sleeves, refusing to make eye contact, refusing to follow directions, etc." I think FCPS is better at picking up conventionally bright kids than extremely gifted kids who may also be 2E.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.

From someone who had one kid with a 15 gbrs and one with a 16: the gbrs should carry a lot of weight but I could definitely see how kids could fall through the cracks and not get the gbrs deserved. I previously taught and know that during the local committee meetings, we boosted gbrs as high as legitimately possible for kids with lower scores who truly stood out as gifted. So if a kid with a 120 cogat was considered, wed give a very high gbrs bc he belonged in aap.

Actually a lot of the truly gifted kids are probably annoying as hell, extremely noncompliant, and can also grate on the teachers -- asking impossible questions and in case of kids on the spectrum, not reading social cues, talking too much, not following directions etc. Not every gifted kid is going to present as "mature", that's for darned sure, due to the delights of asynchronous development in the highly gifted. The math genius in my kid's middle school had trouble sitting in his seat and seemed to spend a lot of time sitting under his desk. When I read about a kid with a 99 percent not getting into the program, that was my first thought -- extremely bright kids sometimes simply baffle teachers, I think. When they encounter these guys, their first thought is not necessary 'what a gifted child' but more like "why is he sucking on his shirt sleeves, refusing to make eye contact, refusing to follow directions, etc." I think FCPS is better at picking up conventionally bright kids than extremely gifted kids who may also be 2E.

Since they are mostly all in AAP, I think you've got it backwards.

[Anonymous]

The central committee was better at seeing the strengths in my 2E kid than my base school, fwiw. I didn’t know he was 2E at the time of AAP selection.

[Anonymous]

This year seems to be an anomaly. Lots of high scoring COGAT kids not getting in even with good GBRS at my school.
Very different than past years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This year seems to be an anomaly. Lots of high scoring COGAT kids not getting in even with good GBRS at my school.
Very different than past years.

Would you mind sharing school or zip?

We are in 22101.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes Asian, 99 percentile and rejected. Even if they wanted to get more URM students they could have added more spots instead of taking done away from deserving kids.

There is no slot limit. If an Asian kid has high scores but poor GBRS, they assume you prepped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid was rejected a couple years ago with high stats, so I feel for all of you. DC ended up getting in on appeal from just a parent letter and new work samples. The AART thought that the most important thing was to appeal with something, just to get a fresh pair of eyes looking at the application packet.

Appeal, explain clearly in your letter why your child needs to be in AAP to have his or her educational needs met, and add a few samples to illustrate your point. Your kids will probably get in on appeal.

Do you think it is worth mentioning that this kid is smarter than my older child who is currently thriving in aap?

The new person looking at the file will see everything that was previously submitted?

Yes to both. I would not only describe ways that your younger child is smarter than your older AAP child, but I would also talk about things your older child has done in AAP and why your younger child would thrive with the same opportunities, projects, and environment. The appeals committee will see the entire file, with all of the old stuff as well as your newly submitted materials.

Do not put that your younger child is smarter than your older child. SMH.

[Anonymous]

This year seems to be an anomaly. Lots of high scoring COGAT kids not getting in even with good GBRS at my school.
Very different than past years.

Would you mind sharing school or zip?

We are in 22101.

I don't want to share the school, but it's a center and not 22101. Not a center that is often mentioned on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there's any selection metrics that can't be gamed or broken. Even if FCPS required an IQ test, people would find a way to prep for the WISC.

I think there might be a way, and that would be not announce which tests they will be using. It’s not like there is only one ability test out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory is that FCPS purposefully uses a COGAT that is easier to score in the 98+ percentile.

In the same way NNAT captures a lot of kids and puts them in the pool, so does an easy cogat. This helps to identify more kids who might benefit from aap and would otherwise fall through the cracks. Then a committee can make a final say.

The difference between a 99% and a 95% on this cogat is insignificant to the committee. They must be taking a very holistic look at applicants.

It would have been nice to know they were taking this approach so we could have focused on making a really good packet. Since my DS had a high score, I figured the work samples weren't that important. Oh well, I can try to appeal.

I also didn't put effort into the packet because my child had such a high score and is a very smart kid. I thought he would be in. Guess I was wrong.

I'm wondering if I should schedule a WISC since he already scored a 141 Cogat.

What were the subscores and the NNAT scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a gifted program anymore.

Teacher remarks should have the most weight. Is the child advanced? Hard working? Curious? Bright? That is the child for AAP.

That's ridiculous, though. My child's 2nd grade teacher didn't like him because he's not a people pleaser and wasn't compliant with the mounds of busy work they were given, like coloring sheets, word searches, and the like. DS was in the outlier math, reading, and word study groups (like, top 2-3 kids in the grade), with his teachers in those glowing about how advanced and brilliant he is. DS was reading long chapter books in 1st grade. DS also had all test scores above 140. The 2nd grade teacher gave a GBRS of 11, with only a 1 in Motivation to Succeed. Most of the comments were pretty lame, and he was dinged for preferring to engage with adults rather than other kids and for being disorganized. Yes, the teacher put negative comments in the GBRS, even though all comments are supposed to be positive. He still was admitted to AAP.

In AAP, he's the kid winning all of the contests, acing all of the tests, and to some extent making the other AAP kids in his class feel dumb. My other AAP child, who is a bright, hardworking, non-gifted people-pleaser, got a 16 GBRS. The GBRS is much more reflective of the teacher's biases than the kid's actual ability.

I’m just curious. Are you a mom or a dad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The part about not being a people pleaser and his inability to complete work.

Being a people pleaser should have nothing to do with this determination.