FCPS potential changes to AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think TJ should have a qualifying exam (and possibly essays) and then be lottery. If base schools can provide the same college outcomes, then we should treat TJ as a lucky extra -- and lottery will make that happen.

The highly talented will rise up at all schools (perhaps we should create more opportunities for those who do well on the TJ test, but don't get in, to do research with GMU or other colleges -- creating partnerships with colleges within the base HSs for the many who missed out on TJ).

TJ is a meritocracy.

Leave it alone.

every couple years liberals and progressives try and get more Hispanics and AA in. It's only a matter of time before they get their wish

at the same time it's not a total meritocracy now because people prep for it some for multiple years which is ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think TJ should have a qualifying exam (and possibly essays) and then be lottery. If base schools can provide the same college outcomes, then we should treat TJ as a lucky extra -- and lottery will make that happen.

The highly talented will rise up at all schools (perhaps we should create more opportunities for those who do well on the TJ test, but don't get in, to do research with GMU or other colleges -- creating partnerships with colleges within the base HSs for the many who missed out on TJ).

TJ is a meritocracy.

Leave it alone.

every couple years liberals and progressives try and get more Hispanics and AA in. It's only a matter of time before they get their wish

at the same time it's not a total meritocracy now because people prep for it some for multiple years which is ridiculous

It is not a meritocracy right now. If they want to make it merit based, set one score for the various exams ans use those scores only. The only parent referrals that allowed are WISC scores from FCPS approved testers. Compare the test scores with report cards, if a childs report card doesn't match the test scores, meet to try and understand what is holding the child back and try to address those needs. Is it language? LD? ADHD? bored in class? Or did the parents prep the kid for the exam? If you can find a way to help the child get their grades up, move them into AAP.

If a child is not able to do the work in an AAP class, try and figure out why. If the problem cannot be corrected, return the child to the regular classroom. I suspect that will end up clearing out some of the kids who have been prepped.

But little about AAP is a meritocracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think TJ should have a qualifying exam (and possibly essays) and then be lottery. If base schools can provide the same college outcomes, then we should treat TJ as a lucky extra -- and lottery will make that happen.

The highly talented will rise up at all schools (perhaps we should create more opportunities for those who do well on the TJ test, but don't get in, to do research with GMU or other colleges -- creating partnerships with colleges within the base HSs for the many who missed out on TJ).

TJ is a meritocracy.

Leave it alone.

There isn't that much difference between those who are accepted and those who are semifinalists, but not accepted. Let's make TJ into a school that serves kids from all of Fairfax County. The base HSs are capable of providing (or connecting with others who can provide) an excellent sci/tech education. TJ isn't working as a public institution. It's already based on some luck -- I just want to spread the luck around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There isn't that much difference between those who are accepted and those who are semifinalists, but not accepted. Let's make TJ into a school that serves kids from all of Fairfax County. The base HSs are capable of providing (or connecting with others who can provide) an excellent sci/tech education. TJ isn't working as a public institution. It's already based on some luck -- I just want to spread the luck around.

I wish they could better distinguish between those who wish to attend TJ because they truly want to take advantage of the advanced math or science offerings vs. those who wish to attend simply because TJ is the most prestigious high school in the area.

The top 50 or 100 kids in each class at TJ absolutely deserve to be there and shouldn't be subject to the luck of the draw. The next 400 kids are pretty much the same as those who aren't accepted. Maybe TJ could guarantee admission to the truly top notch talent, and let the rest be picked via lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There isn't that much difference between those who are accepted and those who are semifinalists, but not accepted. Let's make TJ into a school that serves kids from all of Fairfax County. The base HSs are capable of providing (or connecting with others who can provide) an excellent sci/tech education. TJ isn't working as a public institution. It's already based on some luck -- I just want to spread the luck around.

I wish they could better distinguish between those who wish to attend TJ because they truly want to take advantage of the advanced math or science offerings vs. those who wish to attend simply because TJ is the most prestigious high school in the area.

The top 50 or 100 kids in each class at TJ absolutely deserve to be there and shouldn't be subject to the luck of the draw. The next 400 kids are pretty much the same as those who aren't accepted. Maybe TJ could guarantee admission to the truly top notch talent, and let the rest be picked via lottery.

The thing about TJ is that for the most part, those kids all want to be there and focused on STEM academics. Not so much in some of the other HS, which are do have great academic offerings, but the focus is on (many) other things. I've had a kid in TJ and a kid in base HS. The kid at TJ would have disappeared in a crowd at base, and my base HS kid would have been overwhelmed with the work at TJ. Both have done great btw and I will I am very grateful we had such great opportunities available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There isn't that much difference between those who are accepted and those who are semifinalists, but not accepted. Let's make TJ into a school that serves kids from all of Fairfax County. The base HSs are capable of providing (or connecting with others who can provide) an excellent sci/tech education. TJ isn't working as a public institution. It's already based on some luck -- I just want to spread the luck around.

I wish they could better distinguish between those who wish to attend TJ because they truly want to take advantage of the advanced math or science offerings vs. those who wish to attend simply because TJ is the most prestigious high school in the area.

The top 50 or 100 kids in each class at TJ absolutely deserve to be there and shouldn't be subject to the luck of the draw. The next 400 kids are pretty much the same as those who aren't accepted. Maybe TJ could guarantee admission to the truly top notch talent, and let the rest be picked via lottery.

The thing about TJ is that for the most part, those kids all want to be there and focused on STEM academics. Not so much in some of the other HS, which are do have great academic offerings, but the focus is on (many) other things. I've had a kid in TJ and a kid in base HS. The kid at TJ would have disappeared in a crowd at base, and my base HS kid would have been overwhelmed with the work at TJ. Both have done great btw and I will I am very grateful we had such great opportunities available.

There are some asian applicants who are being pressured by their parents and actually don't want to be there
There are more asian applicants who have prepped for years who really shouldn't be there either
And of course there are plenty of asian applicants who want to be there and have the aptitude to be there without prepping who deserve to be there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought quotas were unconstitutional?

It’s complicated.

With the caveat that I have not seen the FCPS exact phrasing— quotas are generally unconstitutional. But, in holistic admissions, like AAP, URM status as a “plus factor”— one consideration out of several— is okay. And targets or goals that might or might not be reached are fine. So, if FCPS is trying to put systems in place to help reach enrollment goals for URMs, it could be fine. Especially if the goals are aspirational, rather than actual quotas. “We hope that there will be enough qualified URMs” is different than “we will take unqualified URMs is we must to hit a certain number. It’s like Harvard aggressively recruiting URMs and giving URM status special weight. Fine, as long as being a URM is not the deciding factor.

But— a lot of this law is in the context of college admissions, where there a set number of seats. AAP is different, because every qualified kid is supposed to be admitted. Unlike Harvard, a URM getting admission does not take a seat from some other, possibly more qualified kid. Your UMC white kid will still be admitted, whether or not the YS model is used to identify additional URM kids. So, I would think FCPS would get additional flexibility.

Quotas will discriminate against asian kids, period.

This quota requirement will result in asian kids with scores in the 130 to 135 range being left out of AAP, while kids of other races with scores in the 110s to 130 range are accepted.

It is completely racist.

I think it is racist to say Asian kids are smarter.

Don't be a fool. Your trolling attempt is weak.

It is fact based that asian kids score higher on qualifying tests than any other racial group.

Having racial quotas will punish and exclude asian kids.

It is also fact based that a lot of the higher scores are based on heavy prepping by Asian kids. FCPS needs to figure something out.

North East Asian populations have an average IQ of around 105.

Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of around 110.

https://brainstats.com/static/98cd4bbec3b147659e3686e5b5d4b5c2/a1967/map.png

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I understand the AAP program, the kids selected for it are suppose to be the top 1% of kids in the county based on the NNAT, CogAT, GBRS, and work samples? If the number of kids who qualify are so skewed that one ethnicity/race has a larger proportion represented in that 1%, then there is an issue with the selection process. No race/ethnicity is smarter then another.

The larger issue is that the socio economic divide makes it harder for the 1% of kids whose parents are not as well off and educated to be able to compete with the 1% of kids whose parents are educated and/or well off. There is no easy answer to that problem but setting quotas is not going to deal with the issues.

The other problem is that kids parents prep their kids for tests that they should not be prepped for. And kids whose parents spend more time reading to them, doing workbooks with them, and the like have an advantage. Nevermnd the kids whose parents send them to prep centers to prepare for the test.

When it gets down to it, AAP should only include a little more then 1% of the student population, if you accept that because of a highly educated work force that lives in the area there are more people who are potentially in that top 1%, and not the increasingly large number of kids that it is accepting. If we are going to argue that the program should be larger, then drop the test score needed to the top 10%.

But you don’t deal with this issue by developing quotas.

A lot of the Asian American students that get into AAP are recent immigrants and of below average income. So these people would not be considered High socioeconomic status students.

It’s a myth that all Asian Americans are wealthy and educated. In fact there’s a sizable low income population.

Stuyvesant is 70% 1st gen asian in NYC and 50% free lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought quotas were unconstitutional?

It’s complicated.

With the caveat that I have not seen the FCPS exact phrasing— quotas are generally unconstitutional. But, in holistic admissions, like AAP, URM status as a “plus factor”— one consideration out of several— is okay. And targets or goals that might or might not be reached are fine. So, if FCPS is trying to put systems in place to help reach enrollment goals for URMs, it could be fine. Especially if the goals are aspirational, rather than actual quotas. “We hope that there will be enough qualified URMs” is different than “we will take unqualified URMs is we must to hit a certain number. It’s like Harvard aggressively recruiting URMs and giving URM status special weight. Fine, as long as being a URM is not the deciding factor.

But— a lot of this law is in the context of college admissions, where there a set number of seats. AAP is different, because every qualified kid is supposed to be admitted. Unlike Harvard, a URM getting admission does not take a seat from some other, possibly more qualified kid. Your UMC white kid will still be admitted, whether or not the YS model is used to identify additional URM kids. So, I would think FCPS would get additional flexibility.

Quotas will discriminate against asian kids, period.

This quota requirement will result in asian kids with scores in the 130 to 135 range being left out of AAP, while kids of other races with scores in the 110s to 130 range are accepted.

It is completely racist.

I think it is racist to say Asian kids are smarter.

Don't be a fool. Your trolling attempt is weak.

It is fact based that asian kids score higher on qualifying tests than any other racial group.

Having racial quotas will punish and exclude asian kids.

It is also fact based that a lot of the higher scores are based on heavy prepping by Asian kids. FCPS needs to figure something out.

North East Asian populations have an average IQ of around 105.

Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of around 110.

https://brainstats.com/static/98cd4bbec3b147659e3686e5b5d4b5c2/a1967/map.png

I personally still think there’s a background bias in IQ tests. I don’t think everyone is taking them on a completely even footing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought quotas were unconstitutional?

It’s complicated.

With the caveat that I have not seen the FCPS exact phrasing— quotas are generally unconstitutional. But, in holistic admissions, like AAP, URM status as a “plus factor”— one consideration out of several— is okay. And targets or goals that might or might not be reached are fine. So, if FCPS is trying to put systems in place to help reach enrollment goals for URMs, it could be fine. Especially if the goals are aspirational, rather than actual quotas. “We hope that there will be enough qualified URMs” is different than “we will take unqualified URMs is we must to hit a certain number. It’s like Harvard aggressively recruiting URMs and giving URM status special weight. Fine, as long as being a URM is not the deciding factor.

But— a lot of this law is in the context of college admissions, where there a set number of seats. AAP is different, because every qualified kid is supposed to be admitted. Unlike Harvard, a URM getting admission does not take a seat from some other, possibly more qualified kid. Your UMC white kid will still be admitted, whether or not the YS model is used to identify additional URM kids. So, I would think FCPS would get additional flexibility.

Quotas will discriminate against asian kids, period.

This quota requirement will result in asian kids with scores in the 130 to 135 range being left out of AAP, while kids of other races with scores in the 110s to 130 range are accepted.

It is completely racist.

I think it is racist to say Asian kids are smarter.

Don't be a fool. Your trolling attempt is weak.

It is fact based that asian kids score higher on qualifying tests than any other racial group.

Having racial quotas will punish and exclude asian kids.

It is also fact based that a lot of the higher scores are based on heavy prepping by Asian kids. FCPS needs to figure something out.

North East Asian populations have an average IQ of around 105.

Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of around 110.

https://brainstats.com/static/98cd4bbec3b147659e3686e5b5d4b5c2/a1967/map.png

I personally still think there’s a background bias in IQ tests. I don’t think everyone is taking them on a completely even footing.

If you look at many of these tests, the IQs of the respondents often correlate very much with the populations country of origin as well.

European American IQs correlate with European IQ, North East Asian with Chinese, Korean and Japanese IQs.

Even Ashkenazi Jewsish populations in the USA and in the UK correlate with one another.

African American's tend to have higher IQs than Sub-Saharan populations, but many African Americans have European ancestry as well.

Southern Asian American populations do not correlate with the Indian Sub-continent, in part based upon who is emigrating. There is actually a pretty large discrepancy, likely due to an influx of the highly educated working here in the USA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I understand the AAP program, the kids selected for it are suppose to be the top 1% of kids in the county based on the NNAT, CogAT, GBRS, and work samples? If the number of kids who qualify are so skewed that one ethnicity/race has a larger proportion represented in that 1%, then there is an issue with the selection process. No race/ethnicity is smarter then another.

The larger issue is that the socio economic divide makes it harder for the 1% of kids whose parents are not as well off and educated to be able to compete with the 1% of kids whose parents are educated and/or well off. There is no easy answer to that problem but setting quotas is not going to deal with the issues.

The other problem is that kids parents prep their kids for tests that they should not be prepped for. And kids whose parents spend more time reading to them, doing workbooks with them, and the like have an advantage. Nevermnd the kids whose parents send them to prep centers to prepare for the test.

When it gets down to it, AAP should only include a little more then 1% of the student population, if you accept that because of a highly educated work force that lives in the area there are more people who are potentially in that top 1%, and not the increasingly large number of kids that it is accepting. If we are going to argue that the program should be larger, then drop the test score needed to the top 10%.

But you don’t deal with this issue by developing quotas.

A lot of the Asian American students that get into AAP are recent immigrants and of below average income. So these people would not be considered High socioeconomic status students.

It’s a myth that all Asian Americans are wealthy and educated. In fact there’s a sizable low income population.

Stuyvesant is 70% 1st gen asian in NYC and 50% free lunch.

Exactly. But unfortunately it doesn’t fit the narrative of weathly priveledged Asian Americans, which is far from accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so glad my kids are just about out of the AAP age. FCPS had a very strong program, full of best-practices and they are trying to chip away at it.

Rather than making AAP larger they should make it smaller and return it to be a gifted program. It's a shame that they cannot use an IQ test like they did long ago because of the expense; also a shame that some percentage of people prep their kids for the selection tests when they are not supposed to be studied for.

FCPS can simultaneously continue to strengthen Gen Ed instruction by continuing to offer all gifted ed trainings and resources to those teachers.

THis 1000%.

[Anonymous]

Why does race matter, if you study hard and try you get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get some more white kids in the level 4

The issue is not getting more white kids into AAP.

It is to get more black kids into AAP. No one cares about the illegal Hispanics.

I just don’t get why these American born kids can’t just study harder. There is so much opportunity for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does race matter, if you study hard and try you get in.

Are you referring to AAP or TJ? Because "study hard" isn't correct for either.