The Other VA publics: CNU, GM, JMU, Radford, ODU, UMW, VCU

[Anonymous]

Just to throw this out there, JMU is listed i USNWR as a Regional school vs. a National school, so it does not get the nation-wide visibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, but it's amazing that we have three public schools that cover top-notch flagship, SLAC and tech. And then a whole crop of other schools that are as good as or better than the 1 flagship in another state. I think the one challenging thing is that UVA + W&M in numbers total less than the numbers at another state flagship so it gets very competitive.

We are lucky in VA, but I do think there are better (and still affordable) options for the kids that just miss out on UVA/W&M. I can see why someone would want their kid with maybe a 4.1 and 1460 SAT (who might be rejected from UVA/W&M) to go to an OOS school with a national reputation over JMU or GMU. It wouldn't necessarily have a higher cost than W&M with its $35K price tag.

I'm the poster with the strong student who made clear she'd be very unhappy going below UVA in state. That was exactly her thinking, and fortunately we had the money to pay for her to go anywhere. We weren't willing to pay full freight for a private school (to us, that made no sense for anything lower than top 10-15), so we said we'd pay for a strong OOS flagship. She got into a good one, paid the deposit, and would have been happy to go. But she ended up getting into UVA off the waitlist so it all ended well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The trashing that invariably happens on these threads is sick. How about some gratitude for the fantastic in-state options Virginia offers?

People always talk about the "fantastic" colleges available in Virginia, but beyond W&M, UVA, Tech, and JMU the other schools are on par with other states' public universitites.

Is JMU fantastic? By what measure? Just trying to be honest (and non-provincial) as ‘great’ and ‘fantastic’ get thrown around a lot. Test and gpa numbers, graduation rate, pretty much any ranking. Are comparably-ranked Stetson and Appy State great schools? In our school the top 10th/25th percentile students shoot for UVA/W&M/VPI(engineering) and the next tier shoot for JMU.

Agree. Our daughter made clear that after working her butt off in her NOVA public high school that it was UVA or out of state. There would be no “settling” for JMU, where kids from her class with a fraction of her AP courseload and GPA and test scores were going. It’s a top 1/3 kind of place. That’s it.

Um, that’s the point. A top 1/3 type of place is still quite respectable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The trashing that invariably happens on these threads is sick. How about some gratitude for the fantastic in-state options Virginia offers?

People always talk about the "fantastic" colleges available in Virginia, but beyond W&M, UVA, Tech, and JMU the other schools are on par with other states' public universitites.

Is JMU fantastic? By what measure? Just trying to be honest (and non-provincial) as ‘great’ and ‘fantastic’ get thrown around a lot. Test and gpa numbers, graduation rate, pretty much any ranking. Are comparably-ranked Stetson and Appy State great schools? In our school the top 10th/25th percentile students shoot for UVA/W&M/VPI(engineering) and the next tier shoot for JMU.

Agree. Our daughter made clear that after working her butt off in her NOVA public high school that it was UVA or out of state. There would be no “settling” for JMU, where kids from her class with a fraction of her AP courseload and GPA and test scores were going. It’s a top 1/3 kind of place. That’s it.

Um, that’s the point. A top 1/3 type of place is still quite respectable.

Are you equating respectable with fantastic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Where 3/4 live off-campus. So, commuter school.

I would say a better definition of a commuter school would be one where a large number of the students live in the home where they grew up and/or a large number vacate the campus to go home on weekends.

+1. This claim that GMU is a commuter school is dated and now absurd. 35,000 students do not commute to GMU. There are four campuses, one in Seoul, Korea. DS spent four years living in the dorms with OOS and international students. Freshmen must live in dorms unless they are granted a waiver. To keep posting nonsense from 15 years ago is elitist and snobby. Not everyone can get into or afford Ivies!. Carnegie changed GMU's designation to residential in 2011. GMU is a terrific university. Go and visit! The facilities are new, state-of-the-art and beautiful. It's getting more difficult to get in by the year. Engineering of any type, econ and computer science are very strong majors.

[Anonymous]

My DD is a senior applying early action to JMU and CNU. She's undecided/arts/humanities. I'm hopeful she'll be accepted to both (4.2 weighted 1300 SAT), but she may have a tough decision to make. She likes both a lot but for different reasons. I'm reading this thread with interest...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CNU, smaller, newer and quite conservative and Christian even though it's a public.

I know that it's some people's perception, but is there any truth to this? How would a very liberal-minded person feel on this campus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD is a senior applying early action to JMU and CNU. She's undecided/arts/humanities. I'm hopeful she'll be accepted to both (4.2 weighted 1300 SAT), but she may have a tough decision to make. She likes both a lot but for different reasons. I'm reading this thread with interest...

Your daughter should apply to UVA. She'd be in the running.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNU, smaller, newer and quite conservative and Christian even though it's a public.

I know that it's some people's perception, but is there any truth to this? How would a very liberal-minded person feel on this campus?

They’d be fine. It gets a conservative reputation because the president of the university is a former Republican senator. Otherwise, it’s like any other state college in terms of range of political views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is a senior applying early action to JMU and CNU. She's undecided/arts/humanities. I'm hopeful she'll be accepted to both (4.2 weighted 1300 SAT), but she may have a tough decision to make. She likes both a lot but for different reasons. I'm reading this thread with interest...

Your daughter should apply to UVA. She'd be in the running.

I feel like it wouldn't be impossible, but it might be tough. Plus, she didn't even want to look at the school. We toured W&M though and she didn't like the vibe or the campus at all. Oh well!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, but it's amazing that we have three public schools that cover top-notch flagship, SLAC and tech. And then a whole crop of other schools that are as good as or better than the 1 flagship in another state. I think the one challenging thing is that UVA + W&M in numbers total less than the numbers at another state flagship so it gets very competitive.

We are lucky in VA, but I do think there are better (and still affordable) options for the kids that just miss out on UVA/W&M. I can see why someone would want their kid with maybe a 4.1 and 1460 SAT (who might be rejected from UVA/W&M) to go to an OOS school with a national reputation over JMU or GMU. It wouldn't necessarily have a higher cost than W&M with its $35K price tag.

I'm the poster with the strong student who made clear she'd be very unhappy going below UVA in state. That was exactly her thinking, and fortunately we had the money to pay for her to go anywhere. We weren't willing to pay full freight for a private school (to us, that made no sense for anything lower than top 10-15), so we said we'd pay for a strong OOS flagship. She got into a good one, paid the deposit, and would have been happy to go. But she ended up getting into UVA off the waitlist so it all ended well.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Not everyone has the money to pay OOS, and frankly, it's often even harder to get admitted as an OOS. My kid is a very strong student, they technically have the numbers that would put them in range at UVA or WM, but that's not a guarantee with all of the other high achieving students applying. I really hate the attitude that you and you your daughter are fostering that if a bright student doesn't get the golden ticket or possess $$$ they're doomed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching GMU's progress over the past decade or so (I live nearby, use the gym, go to various events, took some graduate courses there for work, and have worked with some new hires from there) and it's been incredible to see the changes. It used to feel very much like a graduate heavy school--lots of master's and PhD programs--and a lot of commuter undergrads. There are now over 6000 students living on campus, so it's bustling all the time--even though a lot of students still commute (there's over 20K students) The diversity--and interaction between students from diverse groups--is impressive--not just racial/ethnic but also viewpoints. The new president Angel Cabrera is dynamic. They have a strong entrepreneurial push with lots of students starting up projects. Their pep band led by Doc Nix is very fun. There's a large group of international students. If feels different than just 5 years ago.
It has recently got R1 status (I think it's the one of the youngest institutions to do so)--which means it's one of the 115 most research intensive schools in the country, and many of its graduates earn quite a bit. The students strike me as serious. We've hired some CS/IT grads in our firm (a govt--IT consulting group) and they are quite good--hard workers, competent, able to pick up things. They aren't quite as articulate/polished as some of our recent hires from higher ranked schools (VTech and UVA), but they also don't seem as pampered. More pragmatic and able to get along and get things done.

+1

+2. I think GMU gets looked down on in NOVA because it is our “local” college and people are thinking circa 2005. Being a metro ride from DC and all the internship options, and in a highly educated diverse area, I think kids from NOVA below the top 10% but in the top 1/3 of FCPS would love to go— if it wasn’t so close to home and where they grew up. It’s CS school has a great reputation.

Eh. No thanks.

Agree. IT's a commuter school with no real campus or identity.

You're a little behind the times. The Carnegie Foundation for Teaching changed GMU's designation to residential in 2011. It also made is a R-1 (top research) university two years ago.

Where 3/4 live off-campus. So, commuter school.

Actually, 1/3 are on-campus, 1/3 are in off-campus housing (not commuting), and 1/3 are commuting. We were just on a tour and those are the rough numbers provided, but I think it’s in their CDS as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is a senior applying early action to JMU and CNU. She's undecided/arts/humanities. I'm hopeful she'll be accepted to both (4.2 weighted 1300 SAT), but she may have a tough decision to make. She likes both a lot but for different reasons. I'm reading this thread with interest...

Your daughter should apply to UVA. She'd be in the running.

I feel like it wouldn't be impossible, but it might be tough. Plus, she didn't even want to look at the school. We toured W&M though and she didn't like the vibe or the campus at all. Oh well!

My daughter didn't like W&M either. UVA is different, though -- more like JMU. I wouldn't give up on it. She definitely has a chance if that 4.2 GPA includes a lot of difficult (AP) classes. The 1300 on the SAT is NOT a killer, regardless of what you might be thinking/hearing. UVA definitely cares more about the GPA/course work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, but it's amazing that we have three public schools that cover top-notch flagship, SLAC and tech. And then a whole crop of other schools that are as good as or better than the 1 flagship in another state. I think the one challenging thing is that UVA + W&M in numbers total less than the numbers at another state flagship so it gets very competitive.

We are lucky in VA, but I do think there are better (and still affordable) options for the kids that just miss out on UVA/W&M. I can see why someone would want their kid with maybe a 4.1 and 1460 SAT (who might be rejected from UVA/W&M) to go to an OOS school with a national reputation over JMU or GMU. It wouldn't necessarily have a higher cost than W&M with its $35K price tag.

I'm the poster with the strong student who made clear she'd be very unhappy going below UVA in state. That was exactly her thinking, and fortunately we had the money to pay for her to go anywhere. We weren't willing to pay full freight for a private school (to us, that made no sense for anything lower than top 10-15), so we said we'd pay for a strong OOS flagship. She got into a good one, paid the deposit, and would have been happy to go. But she ended up getting into UVA off the waitlist so it all ended well.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Not everyone has the money to pay OOS, and frankly, it's often even harder to get admitted as an OOS. My kid is a very strong student, they technically have the numbers that would put them in range at UVA or WM, but that's not a guarantee with all of the other high achieving students applying. I really hate the attitude that you and you your daughter are fostering that if a bright student doesn't get the golden ticket or possess $$$ they're doomed.

I'm not suggesting that you're "doomed" if you can't get into William & Mary or UVA in state and have to settle for another in state school. There's nothing wrong with JMU, GMU, etc., it's just that the gap between UVA/W&M and the other VA schools in terms of admission is so great -- JMU truly doesn't mean "Just Missed UVA" -- that there are many, many great schools falling somewhere in between. For example, other than Northwestern a borderline UVA admit from in state is a likely admit to every Big 10 school, most of which are great, fun, and have national reputations. If you can afford them, why not? They're certainly less expensive than private schools.

[Anonymous]

My daughter didn't like W&M either. UVA is different, though -- more like JMU. I wouldn't give up on it. She definitely has a chance if that 4.2 GPA includes a lot of difficult (AP) classes. The 1300 on the SAT is NOT a killer, regardless of what you might be thinking/hearing. UVA definitely cares more about the GPA/course work.

+1. Naviance shows that kids with a 4.2 get into UVA with a range of test scores. My kid with a 4.0 and a 1480 SAT, on the other hand, wouldn't have much of a chance if he wanted to apply there. 1300 is about average in his HS.

Not everyone has the money to pay OOS, and frankly, it's often even harder to get admitted as an OOS. My kid is a very strong student, they technically have the numbers that would put them in range at UVA or WM, but that's not a guarantee with all of the other high achieving students applying. I really hate the attitude that you and you your daughter are fostering that if a bright student doesn't get the golden ticket or possess $$$ they're doomed.

Not the PP, but it doesn't always cost more to go OOS than it does to go in-state at the most expensive VA publics. It's at least worth exploring merit possibilities and adding an OOS school or two to the mix for a high stats kid. Schools that are comparable to UVA will be expensive and difficult to get in to, but there's a whole range of schools between UVA and GMU/VCU/JMU that might work out from a money standpoint.