600k HHI - Where should we live?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wanting a diverse neighborhood with a $600k income is Catch 22 because unless you go private, live in Shephard Park or Bethesda your kids are probably not going to be in the same socio-economic circles as the demographic groups you wanted them to get exposure to and it might have the undesired effect of making your privileged kids associate non-white kids with being middle and working class. Percentages are nothing more than numbers on paper - I would look and how integrated peer groups are at a school. From purely anecdotal experience it seems peer groups in places like Silver Spring are more diverse (ethnically and economically) than a lot of other places mentioned in this thread.

Unless you consider someplace like McLean which is much more ethnically diverse than one would think in the public schools, but not SES diverse.

It actually IS diverse SES-wise, it is just a different form of diversity. There are very few openly poor people in McLean but remember, close-in areas of McLean are full of relatively normal, modest-ish houses built in the 70s, and even brick ramblers built god knows when. Twenty, thirty years ago they were affordable to government workers and normal people, and even ten years ago a couple of, say, development workers or college professors could buy an older house in McLean. Then you have openly rich people who build 2 million + houses. And then there are apartment dwellers, not many but there are some.

Socio-economic diversity were the poors are college professors. LOL. Exactly PP's point.

Another point is that how much are the students of different SES backgrounds socializing with each other and part of the same peer groups? Diversity is nothing but a paper stat if kids of different backgrounds in these schools stay isolated and only hang out with other kids from the same racial, ethnic and/or SES backgrounds.

+so many
The poors of McLean are rich almost anywhere else in the country.

Immediate PP's point about culture is critical, too. I've been in diverse environment where that the culture (eg, tribal or cliquish) can be a negative.

I think OP needs to chew over all suggestions and take some time looking at places, maybe even visiting schools, too. But whatever you do, please realize there's scant clear answers and you need to pick a poison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wanting a diverse neighborhood with a $600k income is Catch 22 because unless you go private, live in Shephard Park or Bethesda your kids are probably not going to be in the same socio-economic circles as the demographic groups you wanted them to get exposure to and it might have the undesired effect of making your privileged kids associate non-white kids with being middle and working class. Percentages are nothing more than numbers on paper - I would look and how integrated peer groups are at a school. From purely anecdotal experience it seems peer groups in places like Silver Spring are more diverse (ethnically and economically) than a lot of other places mentioned in this thread.

Unless you consider someplace like McLean which is much more ethnically diverse than one would think in the public schools, but not SES diverse.

It actually IS diverse SES-wise, it is just a different form of diversity. There are very few openly poor people in McLean but remember, close-in areas of McLean are full of relatively normal, modest-ish houses built in the 70s, and even brick ramblers built god knows when. Twenty, thirty years ago they were affordable to government workers and normal people, and even ten years ago a couple of, say, development workers or college professors could buy an older house in McLean. Then you have openly rich people who build 2 million + houses. And then there are apartment dwellers, not many but there are some.

Socio-economic diversity were the poors are college professors. LOL. Exactly PP's point.

Another point is that how much are the students of different SES backgrounds socializing with each other and part of the same peer groups? Diversity is nothing but a paper stat if kids of different backgrounds in these schools stay isolated and only hang out with other kids from the same racial, ethnic and/or SES backgrounds.

That type of segregation is self-selected and I doubt you can do anything about it. It will be exactly the same at Wilson, btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I currently live in Petworth in DC with a toddler, and another one on the way. 600k HHI, no debt besides the mortgage on our current place (300k in equity). We are looking for a bigger house - need at minimum 2000 sq ft, 4 bedrooms, and 3 bathrooms. Here are our priorities, in order:

1. Public schools that are not nearly all (talking over 85%) white
2. Good quality of education at said public schools (through high school)
3. Relatively easy and relatively short (under 45 mins) commute via public transit to Farragut Sq area
4. Walkable neighborhood

Ideas of where to look?

Why not stay in Petworth?

Hi, OP back - first, to those of you criticizing or wondering about my motives re: diversity here, please look back a couple pages - basically, I grew up in diverse (racial and SES) schools, and think it was critical to my development/education and want the same for my kids. 15% non-white is likely too low to provide them with that experience - my preference is actually less than 50% white, but I don't know if that's reasonable to expect given my other goals (stated below). I understand that others disagree that this is valuable, but I would much rather that my kids go to a diverse school that isn't considered the absolute "best" in the area than one that has the best test scores/ivy admissions/whatever but is nearly all white.

All that said, I also want my kids to be able to attend a schools that is both safe and academically challenging for them. While I would be satisfied with our elementary school in Petworth, I'm worried that our middle/high school (MacFarland/Roosevelt) would not meet this criteria. And we really would like a bigger house before kid #2 arrives (not because we need a "nice house," but because I don't want my parents to have to sleep on a pull-out bed in our basement when they visit), so I don't want to move once and then HAVE to move again when my kids are a bit older.

So far, Shepard Park is pretty high on our list. Looked into areas zoned for Oyster Adams too but the houses don't really seem to be what we're looking for. Somewhat considering Chevy Chase MD - it has more diversity than I expected but it doesn't seem to be served by much public transportation.

I think you mean that Bethesda-Chevy Chase HS has more diversity than you expected because, at least for now, some Silver Spring neighborhoods are zoned for B-CC. Because Chevy Chase itself is not diverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think you mean that Bethesda-Chevy Chase HS has more diversity than you expected because, at least for now, some Silver Spring neighborhoods are zoned for B-CC. Because Chevy Chase itself is not diverse.

+1

Living within walking distance to Bethesda Metro and zoned for Bethesda-Chevy Chase HS is pretty much the Holy Grail for what PP wants, especially with that income.

[Anonymous]

OP. Just tear this down and do what you want. Perfect location and walkable to everything in Bethesda.

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Chevy-Chase/4411-Elm-St-20815/home/10643437

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. Just tear this down and do what you want. Perfect location and walkable to everything in Bethesda.

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Chevy-Chase/4411-Elm-St-20815/home/10643437

Right next to the purple line?!?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22202
Oakridge/ Gunston/Wakefield

Can"t imagine making that money and buying a house in the Wakefield district. It's not a good school.

Wakefield is an excellent school. I would choose it over Wilson.

+1

The new Wakefield is gorgeous - absolutely stunning! Indoor pool, the track is immaculate, so much great stuff in one school.

Nice building but same can be said of TC, and Wakefield has fewer high-achieving kids. Hard pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I currently live in Petworth in DC with a toddler, and another one on the way. 600k HHI, no debt besides the mortgage on our current place (300k in equity). We are looking for a bigger house - need at minimum 2000 sq ft, 4 bedrooms, and 3 bathrooms. Here are our priorities, in order:

1. Public schools that are not nearly all (talking over 85%) white
2. Good quality of education at said public schools (through high school)
3. Relatively easy and relatively short (under 45 mins) commute via public transit to Farragut Sq area
4. Walkable neighborhood

Ideas of where to look?

Why not stay in Petworth?

Hi, OP back - first, to those of you criticizing or wondering about my motives re: diversity here, please look back a couple pages - basically, I grew up in diverse (racial and SES) schools, and think it was critical to my development/education and want the same for my kids. 15% non-white is likely too low to provide them with that experience - my preference is actually less than 50% white, but I don't know if that's reasonable to expect given my other goals (stated below). I understand that others disagree that this is valuable, but I would much rather that my kids go to a diverse school that isn't considered the absolute "best" in the area than one that has the best test scores/ivy admissions/whatever but is nearly all white.

All that said, I also want my kids to be able to attend a schools that is both safe and academically challenging for them. While I would be satisfied with our elementary school in Petworth, I'm worried that our middle/high school (MacFarland/Roosevelt) would not meet this criteria. And we really would like a bigger house before kid #2 arrives (not because we need a "nice house," but because I don't want my parents to have to sleep on a pull-out bed in our basement when they visit), so I don't want to move once and then HAVE to move again when my kids are a bit older.

So far, Shepard Park is pretty high on our list. Looked into areas zoned for Oyster Adams too but the houses don't really seem to be what we're looking for. Somewhat considering Chevy Chase MD - it has more diversity than I expected but it doesn't seem to be served by much public transportation.

I think you mean that Bethesda-Chevy Chase HS has more diversity than you expected because, at least for now, some Silver Spring neighborhoods are zoned for B-CC. Because Chevy Chase itself is not diverse.

I was going to suggest the Rock Creek Forest neighborhood of Chevy Chase. The elementary school is very diverse, in fact your white kid will be a minority. As others have said, it feeds into BCC which is also quite diverse. At the same time, there are some nicer bigger homes that go for $1 million +,though they don’t come on the market much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22202
Oakridge/ Gunston/Wakefield

Can"t imagine making that money and buying a house in the Wakefield district. It's not a good school.

Wakefield is an excellent school. I would choose it over Wilson.

+1

The new Wakefield is gorgeous - absolutely stunning! Indoor pool, the track is immaculate, so much great stuff in one school.

Nice building but same can be said of TC, and Wakefield has fewer high-achieving kids. Hard pass.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22202
Oakridge/ Gunston/Wakefield

Can"t imagine making that money and buying a house in the Wakefield district. It's not a good school.

Wakefield is an excellent school. I would choose it over Wilson.

+1

The new Wakefield is gorgeous - absolutely stunning! Indoor pool, the track is immaculate, so much great stuff in one school.

Nice building but same can be said of TC, and Wakefield has fewer high-achieving kids. Hard pass.

+1

Wakefield doesn’t have the extremes of TC. Less disruption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I currently live in Petworth in DC with a toddler, and another one on the way. 600k HHI, no debt besides the mortgage on our current place (300k in equity). We are looking for a bigger house - need at minimum 2000 sq ft, 4 bedrooms, and 3 bathrooms. Here are our priorities, in order:

1. Public schools that are not nearly all (talking over 85%) white
2. Good quality of education at said public schools (through high school)
3. Relatively easy and relatively short (under 45 mins) commute via public transit to Farragut Sq area
4. Walkable neighborhood

Ideas of where to look?

Do you want to stay in DC, or move out to the suburbs? As in, how would you feel about being zoned for Wilson? To get actual door-to-door in < 45 min, you'd have to either stay in the city or very close-in. We live IB for Wilson and total commute door-to-door to Farragut N. is around 45 min and sometimes a bit more, due to some walking on both ends.

Thank you. It's annoying when people say they live in Upper NW and claim they have a "15 minute" commute. They're only counting the time they're actually on the metro (not walking on both ends, waiting for a train, etc).

PP here. I could drive to the nearest metro station and could reduce my commute to 40-45 minutes, but I like a little extra walking.

If you’re open to staying in DC, this house in my neighborhood might work--listed at 1.8 but I think it should go for less:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1400-Iris-St-NW-20012/home/10019471?utm_source=ios_share&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=copy_link&utm_nooverride=1&utm_content=link

Also, this one was just listed and comes in under your budget:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/7537-12th-St-NW-20012/home/10036956?utm_source=ios_share&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=copy_link&utm_nooverride=1&utm_content=link

In addition to commute, Shepherd Park/Colonial Village checks some of your other boxes: Super diverse neighborhood and decent schools: Shepherd, Deal, Wilson. Not that walkable right now, but that will get better with Walter Reed and other development in the area.

Love this one! - NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22202
Oakridge/ Gunston/Wakefield

Can"t imagine making that money and buying a house in the Wakefield district. It's not a good school.

Wakefield is an excellent school. I would choose it over Wilson.

+1

The new Wakefield is gorgeous - absolutely stunning! Indoor pool, the track is immaculate, so much great stuff in one school.

Nice building but same can be said of TC, and Wakefield has fewer high-achieving kids. Hard pass.

+1

Wakefield doesn’t have the extremes of TC. Less disruption.

The high-achieving kids at TC don’t seem to be disrupted. They’re getting into bettter schools than kids from all APS high schools, not just Wakefield.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22202
Oakridge/ Gunston/Wakefield

Can"t imagine making that money and buying a house in the Wakefield district. It's not a good school.

Wakefield is an excellent school. I would choose it over Wilson.

+1

The new Wakefield is gorgeous - absolutely stunning! Indoor pool, the track is immaculate, so much great stuff in one school.

Nice building but same can be said of TC, and Wakefield has fewer high-achieving kids. Hard pass.

+1

Wakefield doesn’t have the extremes of TC. Less disruption.

The high-achieving kids at TC don’t seem to be disrupted. They’re getting into bettter schools than kids from all APS high schools, not just Wakefield.

Why are people bringing up Wakefield and TC Williams in a thread about a couple with a $600k HHI?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for the input. To answer everyone's questions - we are open to either staying in DC or moving to the close-in suburbs. My concern with upper NW DC is that, although Deal and Wilson seem reasonably diverse now, the elementary schools appear to be quite white and by the time my kids would be in middle/high school it would be very segregated. Bethesda also appears to be pretty white. I'm not familiar with Lyon Village - will look into that. Thanks!

OP, what are you trying to achieve regarding diversity? The world isn't separated into just white and non-white.

Are you a black family looking to be around other upper middle / upper class black families? Are you an Asian family who doesn't want your kid to be the only non-white? Are you a mixed race family looking to be around the same? Are you a white family just looking to be around enough non-whites (15%) and any other race will do?

My advice would change based on the above.

Regarding how much you want to spend on a home, is that $600K HHI stable and expected to stay the same or rise over the next 20 years?

We are white. I want my kids to go to a racially diverse school because I went to schools with racial and SES diversity growing up and I consider that to have been an integral, critical part of my education - it made me aware of my privilege and enabled me to comfortably work with people from all walks of life. I want my kids to have the same. Thinking about it more, 15% non-white probably wouldn't get my kids the same experience I had - I would like it to be more diverse than that. But I know there aren't a ton of schools that are both racially diverse (let alone SES) and academically decent that are close-in, so I figured I'd need to compromise a bit here.

Having researched it more, it looks like Shepard Park may come closest to what we're looking for on balance. Takoma Park is a close second - the schools there are pretty much exactly what I'd want for my kids, but to make the commute manageable we'd have to be very close to the metro and there just isn't a ton of housing stock there with what we need (due to the 2 kids and parents who visit frequently, we really need at least 4 bedrooms and 2000 sq ft or we'll all drive each other nuts).

Thank you for all the help - if you have more ideas, please keep them coming.

PP you're responding to here. I agree that Shepherd Park might be a good fit for you. Lots of affluent black, Jewish, and LGBT families. One of the nice things about SP vs. some other parts of the city is that your kids won't associate being black with poverty. Also, SP has much better schools than Takoma DC, and generally larger homes than Takoma Park, MD. It's not far from private schools if you go that route.

Colonial Village is another option that might work, but it's further from the walkable amenities. CV is a gorgeous, diverse (race, religion, not so much SES) neighborhood though, and shares the same schools as SP (Shepherd, Deal, Wilson). Good luck!

Me again, I meant to say that SP generally has much larger homes than both Takoma DC and Takoma MD. Parts of SP are very close to the Silver Spring metro if that helps. there are also bus lines going from SP to the SS metro station. Or could you do an addition in Takoma Park, MD if the schools are exactly what you want?

OP, it's me again. I was reading the thread on Takoma Park neighborhoods and thought of you. There's one 4 bedroom home for sale on Willow that someone posted that looks like it might be a little larger. You could add a bedroom in the basement or attic for your in laws. Looks like the kitchen was renovated, and you could hire someone to paint the interior if desired. It would look a lot better without all that dated furniture in there. The exterior looks absolutely charming from the picture.

Takoma Park, Takoma, Shepherd Park, and Colonial Village are all known for diversity. Good luck with your decision!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22202
Oakridge/ Gunston/Wakefield

Can"t imagine making that money and buying a house in the Wakefield district. It's not a good school.

Wakefield is an excellent school. I would choose it over Wilson.

+1

The new Wakefield is gorgeous - absolutely stunning! Indoor pool, the track is immaculate, so much great stuff in one school.

Nice building but same can be said of TC, and Wakefield has fewer high-achieving kids. Hard pass.

+1

Wakefield doesn’t have the extremes of TC. Less disruption.

The high-achieving kids at TC don’t seem to be disrupted. They’re getting into bettter schools than kids from all APS high schools, not just Wakefield.

Why are people bringing up Wakefield and TC Williams in a thread about a couple with a $600k HHI?

People with that income rarely live in South Arlington. It's not an attractive area. They do live in Alexandria, but are probably more likely to send their kids to privates than to TC.