DD wants top SLACs But Doesn't Have Grades

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top local private."

This makes a difference. What do her grades actually look like? Does she always get A's in certain subjects? Are the B's grouped in other certain subjects? Or does she randomly get As and Bs?

If she has a strong group of subjects and if she takes the most rigorous courses in that group, getting Bs in her weak subjects even if they are basically "on grade level" won't matter. If she applies to every top 50 SLAC she will get in somewhere.

If she culls through the top 50 for the 20 or 25 that she likes best (read DO NOT just apply to the top 20 or 25) making sure to have the same number in each group of 1-10/11-20/21-30, she will get in somewhere.

If she has a strong suit where she stands out, the schools will know she can do the work and if OP you can pay the bill, it will work out.

LOL top local private makes no difference. Colleges/universities have many applicants who with stronger stats from other private and public schools.

This is just not true. DD got into Amherst (four yrs ago, but still pretty recent) with a 3.68 gpa and nearly perfect test scores from top local private. She was top 15% of her class with the most rigorous coursework. No way would she have gotten in from a local public even with the same relative stats (aka grade weighting for aps, etc).

How on earth would you know that? Idiotic comment.

DP here with a kid at Amherst. That is NOT an idiotic comment. Amherst likes certain schools - the top local privates and the public magnets, and the only way a kid from a regular public school is getting in with those numbers is if they're a URM, recruited athlete or legacy.

Congrats on having a kid at Amherst. Did they give you access to their admissions office afterwards so you could see the records of the all "regular public school" kids who applied so you could see how they got in? Or, anticipating that you'll say "that's what my kid tells me," did they give access to your kid?

You have no basis for your statement. That your kid got in says nothing.

We have gone to the get-togethers for local families. My kid is well-acquainted with the kids at Amherst from the DC area. The vast majority of them are from private and public magnet schools. The 2 kids I can think of from regular public schools are both recruited athletes. Those are the facts.

Of course Amherst takes kids from public schools. But there are also very aware of geographic diversity among their students and so the unhooked kid from the public high in Fargo, North Dakota, with a 3.8/1500 SAT is going to get in to Amherst long before the kid with those numbers from McLean high, and maybe even a Sidwell kid with those numbers. And the kid with those numbers at Sidwell is going to get in before the McLean HS kid because Amherst knows that a 3.8 at Sidwell is harder to get than a 3.8 at McLean.

No, these are not the "facts" -- they are your reality. I'm a public school parent whose kids have been accepted to and attended elite colleges. It never occurred to me to attend -- in fact, you'd have to drag me there kicking and screaming -- to "get togethers for local families." That is suuuch a private school attitude and thing. I don't care that there are other families in the area whose kids attend the same school as my kid. I only care about my kid and my kid's friends.

I have a hunch your kid is like you -- gravitating to and only caring about the kids who went to private school.

The bottom line is that your evidence is completely anecdotal. The FACT is that the majority of Amherst students went to public school and that the DC area has excellent public schools. It's not easy for anyone, anywhere, to get into Amherst, but high performing graduates of DC area public high schools have as good a shot as anyone.

Snob.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out Macalester--great school, urban-ish, strong international bent, she sounds like a likely admit.

If you visit Macalester, you should also visit Gustavus Adolphus and Carelton and St. Olaf's while you are in Minnesota

Junior DS and I are doing St. Olaf’s and Macalaster and then renting a car and driving to Grinnell this spring. It’s about 4-5 hours. But worth the drive because Grinnell could be a great fit. I don’t want to have to fly into Minneapolis one weekend and Iowa the next.

Op— ED Oberlin and Kenyon. Look at Denison. I was super impressed by Wooster when we visited for my STEM kid. Skidmore. Layfayette. Dickinson. Macalaster. St. Olaf’s, Union, Hamilton. Washington and Lee and U Richmond if she likes the southern, conservative feel. All probably doable. Carleton, Grinnell and Davidson will be reaches. Amherst, Williams, Swat, Haverford, Pomona are not going to happen. They are as hard to get into— or harder— than Ivys. She’s going to have a hard time— or find it impossible— to get into the top 10-15 SLACs. You aren’t doing her any favors by letting her focus on schools she can’t get into.

Pull the common data set for these colleges. If she is an unhooked, Asian female who isn’t first gen, her ACT needs to line up with the 75%. Women have a harder time getting into SLACs than men. What you are doing is like taking a kid with you kids SATs and focusing on just Harvard, Yale and Stanford, then asking if you should look and Columbia or Brown next. When you should aim for Emory, Vandy, Wake Forest, etc. as reach schools, and also have matches.

BTW— small undergrad school, beautiful campus, LAC vibe, test optional, great for kids who are pre-professional— look at Wake. I attended back and the day and it had the same feel as the SLAC colleges DS is looking at. He will be applying, although he is concerned about the frat scene/ conservative bent.

There are great schools out there that do what she wants. Help her focus on Davidson, Grinnell, Carleton, etc as reaches and find some good Macalaster, etc matches.

+1 This is a very helpful post PP - I hope the OP sees it.

Agreed, but there are some odd inclusions. Washington & Lee and Hamilton for a kid with mediocre grades? Good luck with that. High-90’s percentile of admitted students are in top quarter of their class rank. Kid better have a high-90’s fastball too.

PP on this, and to be clear, I am only considering the projected ACT of 31-32 in the context of a kid not in the top 10% of the class. I have no ability to tell how good or bad the GPA is from an unnamed private school, especially without a real answer on academic rigor. Maybe the kid is top 1/3 with a rigorous load. Maybe bottom third without, and the As are in PE and music class. We don’t know. But without tip top grades, the ACTs are disqualifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top local private."

This makes a difference. What do her grades actually look like? Does she always get A's in certain subjects? Are the B's grouped in other certain subjects? Or does she randomly get As and Bs?

If she has a strong group of subjects and if she takes the most rigorous courses in that group, getting Bs in her weak subjects even if they are basically "on grade level" won't matter. If she applies to every top 50 SLAC she will get in somewhere.

If she culls through the top 50 for the 20 or 25 that she likes best (read DO NOT just apply to the top 20 or 25) making sure to have the same number in each group of 1-10/11-20/21-30, she will get in somewhere.

If she has a strong suit where she stands out, the schools will know she can do the work and if OP you can pay the bill, it will work out.

LOL top local private makes no difference. Colleges/universities have many applicants who with stronger stats from other private and public schools.

This is just not true. DD got into Amherst (four yrs ago, but still pretty recent) with a 3.68 gpa and nearly perfect test scores from top local private. She was top 15% of her class with the most rigorous coursework. No way would she have gotten in from a local public even with the same relative stats (aka grade weighting for aps, etc).

How on earth would you know that? Idiotic comment.

DP here with a kid at Amherst. That is NOT an idiotic comment. Amherst likes certain schools - the top local privates and the public magnets, and the only way a kid from a regular public school is getting in with those numbers is if they're a URM, recruited athlete or legacy.

Congrats on having a kid at Amherst. Did they give you access to their admissions office afterwards so you could see the records of the all "regular public school" kids who applied so you could see how they got in? Or, anticipating that you'll say "that's what my kid tells me," did they give access to your kid?

You have no basis for your statement. That your kid got in says nothing.

We have gone to the get-togethers for local families. My kid is well-acquainted with the kids at Amherst from the DC area. The vast majority of them are from private and public magnet schools. The 2 kids I can think of from regular public schools are both recruited athletes. Those are the facts.

Of course Amherst takes kids from public schools. But there are also very aware of geographic diversity among their students and so the unhooked kid from the public high in Fargo, North Dakota, with a 3.8/1500 SAT is going to get in to Amherst long before the kid with those numbers from McLean high, and maybe even a Sidwell kid with those numbers. And the kid with those numbers at Sidwell is going to get in before the McLean HS kid because Amherst knows that a 3.8 at Sidwell is harder to get than a 3.8 at McLean.

No, these are not the "facts" -- they are your reality. I'm a public school parent whose kids have been accepted to and attended elite colleges. It never occurred to me to attend -- in fact, you'd have to drag me there kicking and screaming -- to "get togethers for local families." That is suuuch a private school attitude and thing. I don't care that there are other families in the area whose kids attend the same school as my kid. I only care about my kid and my kid's friends.

I have a hunch your kid is like you -- gravitating to and only caring about the kids who went to private school.

The bottom line is that your evidence is completely anecdotal. The FACT is that the majority of Amherst students went to public school and that the DC area has excellent public schools. It's not easy for anyone, anywhere, to get into Amherst, but high performing graduates of DC area public high schools have as good a shot as anyone.

Snob.

My kid went to public school. I hope you enjoyed writing your rant as much as I enjoyed reading it.

[Anonymous]

0 chance at Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona, and Claremont McKenna. Not even worth bothering applying to these. All are in the selectivity ballpark of the Ivies and equivalent. They do not admit B students unless it's a highly grade deflated school they're familiar with.

Middlebury, Carleton, Davidson, Wellesley, Washington and Lee, Vassar, Haverford, Wesleyan would be reaches. If D really likes one or multiple, strongly encourage ED1 or ED2.

Other SLACs in the top 50 (Grinnell, Bates, Colgate, Scripps, Kenyon, etc) are matches.

Let go of the Amherst obsession and be realistic. Many of the attainable reaches are just as good as Amherst, and many have a similar culture.

[Anonymous]

Since your kid attends a private, obviously you will be full pay at any college. Make that clear from the beginning and you will be moved to the top of the pile.

Those lowest quartile of kids on test scroes/GPA? Those are the full pays, legacies, URMs and athletes. How else do you think kids with low scores/grades get in to places like Amherst, Swarthmore and Williams?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:0 chance at Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona, and Claremont McKenna. Not even worth bothering applying to these. All are in the selectivity ballpark of the Ivies and equivalent. They do not admit B students unless it's a highly grade deflated school they're familiar with.

Middlebury, Carleton, Davidson, Wellesley, Washington and Lee, Vassar, Haverford, Wesleyan would be reaches. If D really likes one or multiple, strongly encourage ED1 or ED2.

Other SLACs in the top 50 (Grinnell, Bates, Colgate, Scripps, Kenyon, etc) are matches.

Let go of the Amherst obsession and be realistic. Many of the attainable reaches are just as good as Amherst, and many have a similar culture.

Thank you. OP here. She is thinking ED (ED1) to Middlebury. Just got Naviance and looks like her school has admitted kids there. We have visited. Also, Colby sent her something in the mail. Do you think ED2 if she doesn't get it? I know they say ED has a lot of legacies and recruited athletes but Middlebury takes 2/3rds of its class ED, so I gotta think it helps.

There was a kid that got into Amherst from her school who did ED and we think he had similar grades. He was URM but not really because the family was wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:0 chance at Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona, and Claremont McKenna. Not even worth bothering applying to these. All are in the selectivity ballpark of the Ivies and equivalent. They do not admit B students unless it's a highly grade deflated school they're familiar with.

Middlebury, Carleton, Davidson, Wellesley, Washington and Lee, Vassar, Haverford, Wesleyan would be reaches. If D really likes one or multiple, strongly encourage ED1 or ED2.

Other SLACs in the top 50 (Grinnell, Bates, Colgate, Scripps, Kenyon, etc) are matches.

Let go of the Amherst obsession and be realistic. Many of the attainable reaches are just as good as Amherst, and many have a similar culture.

Thank you. OP here. She is thinking ED (ED1) to Middlebury. Just got Naviance and looks like her school has admitted kids there. We have visited. Also, Colby sent her something in the mail. Do you think ED2 if she doesn't get it? I know they say ED has a lot of legacies and recruited athletes but Middlebury takes 2/3rds of its class ED, so I gotta think it helps.

There was a kid that got into Amherst from her school who did ED and we think he had similar grades. He was URM but not really because the family was wealthy.

Honestly, it is a wasted ED with her stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:0 chance at Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona, and Claremont McKenna. Not even worth bothering applying to these. All are in the selectivity ballpark of the Ivies and equivalent. They do not admit B students unless it's a highly grade deflated school they're familiar with.

Middlebury, Carleton, Davidson, Wellesley, Washington and Lee, Vassar, Haverford, Wesleyan would be reaches. If D really likes one or multiple, strongly encourage ED1 or ED2.

Other SLACs in the top 50 (Grinnell, Bates, Colgate, Scripps, Kenyon, etc) are matches.

Let go of the Amherst obsession and be realistic. Many of the attainable reaches are just as good as Amherst, and many have a similar culture.

I wouldn't call Grinnell a match with your daughter's record. It has less then a 20 percent acceptance rate for women, its mid 50 percent ACT range is 30-33, and says it pays more attention to the rigor of the student's classes and grades than test scores. The typical Grinnell student definitely gets more As than Bs in high school.

Grinnell also jumped up in the US News rankings to number 11, placing it well higher than the other schools on your match list, and say what you want about the rankings -- Grinnell is likely to see an increase in applications as a result.

You are full pay, though, and you'll get a bump for that. That should make you feel good, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:0 chance at Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona, and Claremont McKenna. Not even worth bothering applying to these. All are in the selectivity ballpark of the Ivies and equivalent. They do not admit B students unless it's a highly grade deflated school they're familiar with.

Middlebury, Carleton, Davidson, Wellesley, Washington and Lee, Vassar, Haverford, Wesleyan would be reaches. If D really likes one or multiple, strongly encourage ED1 or ED2.

Other SLACs in the top 50 (Grinnell, Bates, Colgate, Scripps, Kenyon, etc) are matches.

Let go of the Amherst obsession and be realistic. Many of the attainable reaches are just as good as Amherst, and many have a similar culture.

Thank you. OP here. She is thinking ED (ED1) to Middlebury. Just got Naviance and looks like her school has admitted kids there. We have visited. Also, Colby sent her something in the mail. Do you think ED2 if she doesn't get it? I know they say ED has a lot of legacies and recruited athletes but Middlebury takes 2/3rds of its class ED, so I gotta think it helps.

There was a kid that got into Amherst from her school who did ED and we think he had similar grades. He was URM but not really because the family was wealthy.

A couple of comments:

1. Amherst doesn't care that the URM from your school is wealthy. He's still a URM and adds to their diversity stats. And maybe he's an athlete or a legacy too?
2. Middlebury is one of the hardest schools from this area to get in at all, much less ED. If you were to look at our top private's Middlebury stats you'd see 2 admissions in the last 2 years - one was a recruited athlete, the other a URM with a very specific talent. Please, please, run your ED plan by the counselor first - ask, specifically, "has a kid from our school who is not a recruited athlete, URM or legacy gotten into Middlebury ED?". If they don't know the answer, find someone who does. I'm afraid she's going to waste her ED ticket in a pointless exercise.
3. Colby has been sending things to my DD at a top private since she was a sophomore. The fact they sent something in the mail means ZERO. Please look again at PP's list above of SLACs that are the level below the top 10 - and consider one of those - yes, I think Colby would be there - and apply to that one ED. Again, check with the counselor, because a small college isn't going to take very many kids from the same small school ED.

[Anonymous]

Yes we are full pay from a solid local private (generally considered one of the top in the area). If she doesn't get in ED, we will just apply to others RD, including safeties. Placement out of our school has been pretty good last couple years, particularly at SLACs. Her ACT is projecting 32 based on practice tests. Hopefully, she can push that to a 33.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:0 chance at Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona, and Claremont McKenna. Not even worth bothering applying to these. All are in the selectivity ballpark of the Ivies and equivalent. They do not admit B students unless it's a highly grade deflated school they're familiar with.

Middlebury, Carleton, Davidson, Wellesley, Washington and Lee, Vassar, Haverford, Wesleyan would be reaches. If D really likes one or multiple, strongly encourage ED1 or ED2.

Other SLACs in the top 50 (Grinnell, Bates, Colgate, Scripps, Kenyon, etc) are matches.

Let go of the Amherst obsession and be realistic. Many of the attainable reaches are just as good as Amherst, and many have a similar culture.

Thank you. OP here. She is thinking ED (ED1) to Middlebury. Just got Naviance and looks like her school has admitted kids there. We have visited. Also, Colby sent her something in the mail. Do you think ED2 if she doesn't get it? I know they say ED has a lot of legacies and recruited athletes but Middlebury takes 2/3rds of its class ED, so I gotta think it helps.

There was a kid that got into Amherst from her school who did ED and we think he had similar grades. He was URM but not really because the family was wealthy.

Honestly, it is a wasted ED with her stats.

See last post plus ACT should be decent. What about Naviance data? Granted it is a small sample.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:0 chance at Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona, and Claremont McKenna. Not even worth bothering applying to these. All are in the selectivity ballpark of the Ivies and equivalent. They do not admit B students unless it's a highly grade deflated school they're familiar with.

Middlebury, Carleton, Davidson, Wellesley, Washington and Lee, Vassar, Haverford, Wesleyan would be reaches. If D really likes one or multiple, strongly encourage ED1 or ED2.

Other SLACs in the top 50 (Grinnell, Bates, Colgate, Scripps, Kenyon, etc) are matches.

Let go of the Amherst obsession and be realistic. Many of the attainable reaches are just as good as Amherst, and many have a similar culture.

Thank you. OP here. She is thinking ED (ED1) to Middlebury. Just got Naviance and looks like her school has admitted kids there. We have visited. Also, Colby sent her something in the mail. Do you think ED2 if she doesn't get it? I know they say ED has a lot of legacies and recruited athletes but Middlebury takes 2/3rds of its class ED, so I gotta think it helps.

There was a kid that got into Amherst from her school who did ED and we think he had similar grades. He was URM but not really because the family was wealthy.

Honestly, it is a wasted ED with her stats.

LOL. Amherst still counted him as an URM. Get real.

[Anonymous]

And strong strong EC.

[Anonymous]

Aren't you supposed to ED reaches? Other kid has top grades on a demanding schedule is thinking of EDing Yale or Dartmouth. I am telling him Dartmouth because a little easier.

[Anonymous]

You said she has "mostly Bs in somewhat rigorous courses" at a "top area private" that you've never said is a Big 3 so I assume it isn't.

How many kids who fit that profile, even full pay and even in the Big 3, are getting into top 10 liberal arts colleges without being athletes, legacies, or URMs? Seriously.