S/O If you have a pit bull...why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. ALL dogs can bite, maim or kill (small dogs have killed infants, for ex).

2. Focusing on the breed is a red herring, because there are lines in each breed that can have very different personalities.

3. Focus on the lineage of each individual dog. Some lines have been bred to fight, and those dogs are the most dangerous, because their escalation time from warning signs to killer lunge can be less than a second.

4. Focus on the environment of the puppy. Bite inhibition develops only when the dog is part of a litter that stays with its mother for at least 6 weeks, because that is when puppies learn that hard bites are socially unacceptable and will be met with pain and maternal correction.

5. Conclusion: adopt or rescue at your own risk and advocate for spaying and neutering. If you don't know the parents of the dog, and the puppy history, or worse, if you know that the dog was bred as a fighting dog or that the dog was born in a puppy mill and never socialized, you are putting people at risk. The risk is greater if you adopt a supposedly aggressive breed, but again, this is a red herring. A Golden can kill as well.

6. In a perfect world, people would get their companions from reputable breeders who breed not only to the physical standard, but also for mellow personalities.

Yet you would be hard-pressed to find an example of that, unlike the many horrifying examples with pits. Breed does matter, and anyone owning a pit is taking a risk.

Are
I was just coming to say this. Pit bull defenders love to point out that there are other breeds with stronger jaws, etc... but I don't see any news stories about them killing their owners. Capability does not translate to reality.[/ l
Rottweilers, german shepherds and mastiffs also have been responsible for fatal attacks in recent year. But fatal dog attacks are incredibly rare (generally less than 40 a year) spread among millions of dogs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ so did the Goocheland woman who was just eaten. There is a reason why 700 cities have outlawed pitbulls.

Every article that I have seen about the woman in Goocheland states that the dogs were being neglected.

So? How many breeds of dog would turn on someone who "raised them From puppies" because they were "indoor dogs were moved outside where they stayed "in the cold." Stephens visited about five times per week so the dogs subsequently became more isolated". They were eating her rib cage when they found them. There are many dogs who would fit this description of neglect (left outside in the cold, visited 5x a week) but they sure as heck wouldn't turn on the person that raised them and eat them!

Just because she owned the dogs as puppies does not mean that she took care of them. Who dumps their dogs on someone who wont even feed them and comes by a few times a week ? How well-trained and socialized do you think those dogs were? Since legal standards of care for pets are pretty low, in order to be described as 'neglect' there is more wrong than just living outdoors. If you want examples of 'nice family dogs' that kill people, you can find plenty, but that story isn't one of them.

You're missing the point. You never hear stories about neglected labs and goldens killing their owners. Pits are inherently aggressive -- which makes it more likely for them to be neglected, and then more likely for them to injure people and other dogs.

You keep singing this same tune. There are plenty of pits who have unfortunately suffered abuse and neglect and have not turned on their owners. The shelters are full of forgiving animals that have done nothing wrong.

The dogs in this situation had gone into some sort of survival mode. I suspect that this had been going on for awhile and they had simply become unsocialized with humans.

How do you explain all the stories (in the news...but even on this thread alone) where that's not what happened??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:100% positive your pit will never harm you? You can never be 100% sure about ANY dog. I have a very docile GSD who adores children and babies. She has never shown any sign of aggression towards anyone or any animal. And you better believe I watch her when little kids are around.

This type of blanket “my dog would never....” illustrates pit owners’ attitudes. No one can say that about a dog, least of all one specifically bred to kill other dogs.

But you are a responsible owner. I have a GSD and a pit looking mix and they are very gentle, good natured dogs (they share food, snuggle together and with us). I wouldn't leave them (or Lassie, herself) alone with small children - ever. small children are curious, defenseless and do unpredictable things that might startle a dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ so did the Goocheland woman who was just eaten. There is a reason why 700 cities have outlawed pitbulls.

Every article that I have seen about the woman in Goocheland states that the dogs were being neglected.

So? How many breeds of dog would turn on someone who "raised them From puppies" because they were "indoor dogs were moved outside where they stayed "in the cold." Stephens visited about five times per week so the dogs subsequently became more isolated". They were eating her rib cage when they found them. There are many dogs who would fit this description of neglect (left outside in the cold, visited 5x a week) but they sure as heck wouldn't turn on the person that raised them and eat them!

Just because she owned the dogs as puppies does not mean that she took care of them. Who dumps their dogs on someone who wont even feed them and comes by a few times a week ? How well-trained and socialized do you think those dogs were? Since legal standards of care for pets are pretty low, in order to be described as 'neglect' there is more wrong than just living outdoors. If you want examples of 'nice family dogs' that kill people, you can find plenty, but that story isn't one of them.

You're missing the point. You never hear stories about neglected labs and goldens killing their owners. Pits are inherently aggressive -- which makes it more likely for them to be neglected, and then more likely for them to injure people and other dogs.

You keep singing this same tune. There are plenty of pits who have unfortunately suffered abuse and neglect and have not turned on their owners. The shelters are full of forgiving animals that have done nothing wrong.

The dogs in this situation had gone into some sort of survival mode. I suspect that this had been going on for awhile and they had simply become unsocialized with humans.

How do you explain all the stories (in the news...but even on this thread alone) where that's not what happened??

People , in general, who allow their dogs to run off leash and up to other people are azzholes. There is no excuse for it. It's not my job to apologize for negligent owners or explain why they are azzholes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is mind-boggling to me that people are willing to take this risk. I hope they are completely banned in the near future.

Herding dogs herd - it is in their genetic make up and intrinsically makes them happy. Why are breeds known for agression any different? It's genetic and under the right circumstances that lovable, wouldn't hurt anyone pit will kill. For those who think agression isn't a function of genetics I encourage you to read this articles. Research now shows the argument "“That aggression is not heritable is not tenable"

http://www.animals24-7.org/2015/11/10/the-science-of-how-behavior-is-inherited-in-aggressive-dogs/

This was fascinating, thank you.
from the article:
"The heritability of abnormal aggression in certain breeds of dogs can no longer be denied. The bodies of these dogs have been selected to execute a killing bite more efficiently than other breeds. These dogs share physical conformation to the task of killing, including exaggerated jaw muscles, heavy necks and shoulders, and body mass that makes defense against an attack much more difficult. Among people who want dogs who can kill, these are the breeds of choice because they are physically more fit for it than other breeds."

+1. I also think these pitiots who keep advocating for how "wonderful" this breed is should take lessons from fanciers/advocates of other previously maligned breeds. Look at german shepherds. Breed advocates addressed the view of that breed as dangerous by acknowledging that GS's aren't a breed for just anyone, you need to be committed to a lot of training and exercise. Same with dobermans and rottweilers. These breeds are no longer viewed as the same dangers to society they were once viewed as and a lot of that is the breed fanciers admitting to the breed characteristics that could make these dogs a problem if they were in the wrong hands. You see similar information from other breed specific groups (like Australian Shepherds, collies, and other working dogs -
they will be up front that These Are Not The Dogs For Everyone!).

Unfortunately, the pit bull advocates are taking the opposite (and dangerous) approach, insisting these dogs are just perfect for each and every home. Stupid stupid stupid.

YES!

I think pitbulls should be banned and culled through mandatory sterilization.

But, if pitbull advocates would recognize and publicize how dangerous they are, how they require strong expeienced adult owners, and how families with children of any age should be strongly discouraged from owning them, then I would have less of an issue with them.

Instead, they are forcing this completely dangerous lie about how gentle they are, resulting in the very dangerous problem of these beasts being brought into places, families and communities that they shoukd never be inflicted upon, by owners who should never ever own a dog breed this dangerous.

Their lies are resulting in a lot of danger for many people and communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son's best friend has one named Buck. He's huge. And he loves people. He was abused by someone and my son's friend stole him from them. Anyway, he's the sweetest thing. He's afraid of cats. LOL. He covers his eyes when he sees one.

My niece raises them. They are the best dogs. They get a bad rap because black people fight them. Michael Vic.

Wow, racist much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. ALL dogs can bite, maim or kill (small dogs have killed infants, for ex).

2. Focusing on the breed is a red herring, because there are lines in each breed that can have very different personalities.

3. Focus on the lineage of each individual dog. Some lines have been bred to fight, and those dogs are the most dangerous, because their escalation time from warning signs to killer lunge can be less than a second.

4. Focus on the environment of the puppy. Bite inhibition develops only when the dog is part of a litter that stays with its mother for at least 6 weeks, because that is when puppies learn that hard bites are socially unacceptable and will be met with pain and maternal correction.

5. Conclusion: adopt or rescue at your own risk and advocate for spaying and neutering. If you don't know the parents of the dog, and the puppy history, or worse, if you know that the dog was bred as a fighting dog or that the dog was born in a puppy mill and never socialized, you are putting people at risk. The risk is greater if you adopt a supposedly aggressive breed, but again, this is a red herring. A Golden can kill as well.

6. In a perfect world, people would get their companions from reputable breeders who breed not only to the physical standard, but also for mellow personalities.

Yet you would be hard-pressed to find an example of that, unlike the many horrifying examples with pits. Breed does matter, and anyone owning a pit is taking a risk.

Are
I was just coming to say this. Pit bull defenders love to point out that there are other breeds with stronger jaws, etc... but I don't see any news stories about them killing their owners. Capability does not translate to reality.[/ l
Rottweilers, german shepherds and mastiffs also have been responsible for fatal attacks in recent year. But fatal dog attacks are incredibly rare (generally less than 40 a year) spread among millions of dogs.

How many dachsunds would it take to kill a person? Thirty? Of course it's the big strong dogs.

[Anonymous]

Dogs are individuals. Just because your dog (of whatever breed) attacked a jogger does not mean that my dog would do that.

[Anonymous]

We've had four pit bull rescues. All super sweet rescues and gentle as can be with children. Of course like any rescues you need to be choose wisely, explore their personalities as fully as possible and be alert to any worrisome tendencies. We watch every rescue like a hawk for a long time under all kinds of conditions to see how they are going to respond. I know lots of dog owners are not as careful.

Any dog can bite under the right circumstances. I was badly bitten as a child by a Gordon setter, and I once witnessed two Bernese Mountain dogs who were real sweeties drag a woman down by the legs and start biting her in the face.

We love our pits and they are great ambassadors for the breed. Your mileage may vary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've had four pit bull rescues. All super sweet rescues and gentle as can be with children. Of course like any rescues you need to be choose wisely, explore their personalities as fully as possible and be alert to any worrisome tendencies. We watch every rescue like a hawk for a long time under all kinds of conditions to see how they are going to respond. I know lots of dog owners are not as careful.

Any dog can bite under the right circumstances. I was badly bitten as a child by a Gordon setter, and I once witnessed two Bernese Mountain dogs who were real sweeties drag a woman down by the legs and start biting her in the face.

We love our pits and they are great ambassadors for the breed. Your mileage may vary.

another pitbull owner logic fail

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had four pit bull rescues. All super sweet rescues and gentle as can be with children. Of course like any rescues you need to be choose wisely, explore their personalities as fully as possible and be alert to any worrisome tendencies. We watch every rescue like a hawk for a long time under all kinds of conditions to see how they are going to respond. I know lots of dog owners are not as careful.

Any dog can bite under the right circumstances. I was badly bitten as a child by a Gordon setter, and I once witnessed two Bernese Mountain dogs who were real sweeties drag a woman down by the legs and start biting her in the face.

We love our pits and they are great ambassadors for the breed. Your mileage may vary.

another pitbull owner logic fail

Actually she makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had four pit bull rescues. All super sweet rescues and gentle as can be with children. Of course like any rescues you need to be choose wisely, explore their personalities as fully as possible and be alert to any worrisome tendencies. We watch every rescue like a hawk for a long time under all kinds of conditions to see how they are going to respond. I know lots of dog owners are not as careful.

Any dog can bite under the right circumstances. I was badly bitten as a child by a Gordon setter, and I once witnessed two Bernese Mountain dogs who were real sweeties drag a woman down by the legs and start biting her in the face.

We love our pits and they are great ambassadors for the breed. Your mileage may vary.

another pitbull owner logic fail

What logic did you not understand? Careful monitoring of rescue dogs + training + gentle disposition = happy owners and happy dogs. I'm sorry if your emotional reaction to these dogs is making you overly fearful, but you are the one who's not being logical.

https://www.thedodo.com/topics/pit-bulls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had four pit bull rescues. All super sweet rescues and gentle as can be with children. Of course like any rescues you need to be choose wisely, explore their personalities as fully as possible and be alert to any worrisome tendencies. We watch every rescue like a hawk for a long time under all kinds of conditions to see how they are going to respond. I know lots of dog owners are not as careful.

Any dog can bite under the right circumstances. I was badly bitten as a child by a Gordon setter, and I once witnessed two Bernese Mountain dogs who were real sweeties drag a woman down by the legs and start biting her in the face.

We love our pits and they are great ambassadors for the breed. Your mileage may vary.

another pitbull owner logic fail

What logic did you not understand? Careful monitoring of rescue dogs + training + gentle disposition = happy owners and happy dogs. I'm sorry if your emotional reaction to these dogs is making you overly fearful, but you are the one who's not being logical.

https://www.thedodo.com/topics/pit-bulls

Rescues also spay/neuter animals that aren't already spayed/neutered. Regardless of breed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had four pit bull rescues. All super sweet rescues and gentle as can be with children. Of course like any rescues you need to be choose wisely, explore their personalities as fully as possible and be alert to any worrisome tendencies. We watch every rescue like a hawk for a long time under all kinds of conditions to see how they are going to respond. I know lots of dog owners are not as careful.

Any dog can bite under the right circumstances. I was badly bitten as a child by a Gordon setter, and I once witnessed two Bernese Mountain dogs who were real sweeties drag a woman down by the legs and start biting her in the face.

We love our pits and they are great ambassadors for the breed. Your mileage may vary.

another pitbull owner logic fail

What logic did you not understand? Careful monitoring of rescue dogs + training + gentle disposition = happy owners and happy dogs. I'm sorry if your emotional reaction to these dogs is making you overly fearful, but you are the one who's not being logical.

https://www.thedodo.com/topics/pit-bulls

sigh. the logic fail is to point to aggression by other dogs, which has nothing to with the fact that pitbulls are MORE dangerous and cause disproportionate harm.

the other logic fail is to say "my pitbulls are sweet, therefore there is no issue in general." No. The fact that your pitbull has not attacked (yet) says nothing about the breed as a whole.
m

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had four pit bull rescues. All super sweet rescues and gentle as can be with children. Of course like any rescues you need to be choose wisely, explore their personalities as fully as possible and be alert to any worrisome tendencies. We watch every rescue like a hawk for a long time under all kinds of conditions to see how they are going to respond. I know lots of dog owners are not as careful.

Any dog can bite under the right circumstances. I was badly bitten as a child by a Gordon setter, and I once witnessed two Bernese Mountain dogs who were real sweeties drag a woman down by the legs and start biting her in the face.

We love our pits and they are great ambassadors for the breed. Your mileage may vary.

another pitbull owner logic fail

What logic did you not understand? Careful monitoring of rescue dogs + training + gentle disposition = happy owners and happy dogs. I'm sorry if your emotional reaction to these dogs is making you overly fearful, but you are the one who's not being logical.

https://www.thedodo.com/topics/pit-bulls

sigh. the logic fail is to point to aggression by other dogs, which has nothing to with the fact that pitbulls are MORE dangerous and cause disproportionate harm.

the other logic fail is to say "my pitbulls are sweet, therefore there is no issue in general." No. The fact that your pitbull has not attacked (yet) says nothing about the breed as a whole.
m

There are several million pit bulls and mixes in this country. There are not millions, thousands, or even hundreds of fatalities by pitbulls in any given year. The overwhelming majority of pitbulls are not causing injury. The few that do cause injury can cause significant injury, the same is true for several other breeds. This requires more diligence and training by responsible pit bull owners.

I am not a pit bull owner and have no plans to adopt one. But it is completely obvious that there are one or more posters here who greatly overstate the degree to which pitbulls are inherently dangerous.