Those of you with 200K+ jobs & are NOT doctors/lawyers: what do you do & how did you find your jobs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I make 120K and seem to be "topped out." I work in IT management at a university and I am drowning in debt. I'm 33, divorced, 1 kid, and don't even own a house yet. Most of my friends make less than me. I have a master's degree from a top school (one of the reasons I am drowning in debt).

I go on Indeed.com, Idealist, etc. all the time and I don't really see jobs posted that pay more than mine. How do you get these super-high paying jobs? Are they unlisted?

I found out recently that even my BOSS only makes 10K more than me. Where are you guys finding the "big" jobs? What did you do to get there?

Let me start by saying 120K at 33 is good money. Really good money. You say drowing in debt...how much is that? How is your credit?

FWIW, at 33, I was making about 1/2 of what you make, with probably less debt (no student loan) and more education (PhD); in 2017 dollars, it converts to 90K. Today, 20 years later, I make 175K, I have a house that with 400-500K equity, and I have 900K in retirement.

What did I do? I bought a house. And, I put money away for retirement. Buying the house was done to fix payments at 1999 levels. I was paying 1500/month in rent, and bought a small house (bigger than my appt) in the 'burbs with good schools without changing my payments. So, I locked my payments for rent in at a level that was sustainable with a 60K salary. I got lucky with the appreciation -- but there are places you could buy a place for 400K, which would cost about $1900+taxes; taxes and interest are deductible. Note that, in theory, you should be able to pay about 600k, which would just about buy my house today (with similar loan to income).

At 3% income growth/inflation, when you are my age, you will be making 235K. If you fix your housing (biggest cost) at your current rent, you will be in good shape. Meanwhile, you have paid 20 years off the mortgage. in another 10 years, you own the place.

At the same time, put in 10% to your 401K (or 403b). I assume the company is matching at least 5%; With 8% grown in the markets, and 3% income growth, you about about 1.15 mil in retirement, and you will have paid off half your house -- assuming a modest 2% growth in housing costs, your 400K house is worth 600K, and you now owe 200K.

So, your net worth is about 1.5 mil....

that is how you get comfortable on a middle class salary.

3% income growth--is that a joke?? We haven't seen annual salary increases over 1% in probably 7 years. Health insurance goes up 5-15% a year, so if you stay in the same job, you just get poorer. The only way to get a meaningful increase is to change jobs.

Learn math. 3% is average. most years are much lower, but every few years, a promotion happens. Then, a big bump happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to all the helpful posters who responded. You gave me a lot to think about.

Someone suggested moving out of the area; I am actually considering doing that. I know that I don't have the skills for sales (or even working closely with the sales team -- it just didn't jive with my personality, which is why I left product management). Similarly, I have worked for myself as a contractor/consultant, but never made more than I am making right now.

I think if I can cut my living expenses and commuting expenses, I will be ok.

As for those in the same shoes, I completely agree about the lack of knowledge/blind, almost fervent belief in education as the answer -- I genuinely believed that getting the most expensive/prestigious education possible would be my ticket out of poverty. (To the person who asked why I paid for my master's degree: my undergraduate degree -- which I also loaned heavily for -- was in political science, so I didn't really have the option of working a great job at a company right after college that would provide generous tuition reimbursement). I still feel as if investing heavily in education paid off, in a way: I'm not living in poverty like my parents, and I actually make more money than most of my friends from back home. But I'm drowning in debt as a result, so maybe I'll move to a cheaper area.

Also a person who came from a poor background here with working poor parents with high school diplomas. They thought any college degree was the ticket to a good salary and had nothing to teach me about saving for retirement or financial planning. My dad had a government job with a pension and they didn't use credit cards, know what an IRA was or do anything more complicated than balance a checkbook. We didn't even have a mortgage because my dad saved to buy land and then built a house on it himself. The whole financial world was scary to them. In college and grad school I choose poorly paid fields because I enjoyed them and didn't know any better. Too bad I can't go back in time and choose better--they were other things I enjoyed in school I just wasn't raised to think about career planning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I make 120K and seem to be "topped out." I work in IT management at a university and I am drowning in debt. I'm 33, divorced, 1 kid, and don't even own a house yet. Most of my friends make less than me. I have a master's degree from a top school (one of the reasons I am drowning in debt).

I go on Indeed.com, Idealist, etc. all the time and I don't really see jobs posted that pay more than mine. How do you get these super-high paying jobs? Are they unlisted?

I found out recently that even my BOSS only makes 10K more than me. Where are you guys finding the "big" jobs? What did you do to get there?

Let me start by saying 120K at 33 is good money. Really good money. You say drowing in debt...how much is that? How is your credit?

FWIW, at 33, I was making about 1/2 of what you make, with probably less debt (no student loan) and more education (PhD); in 2017 dollars, it converts to 90K. Today, 20 years later, I make 175K, I have a house that with 400-500K equity, and I have 900K in retirement.

What did I do? I bought a house. And, I put money away for retirement. Buying the house was done to fix payments at 1999 levels. I was paying 1500/month in rent, and bought a small house (bigger than my appt) in the 'burbs with good schools without changing my payments. So, I locked my payments for rent in at a level that was sustainable with a 60K salary. I got lucky with the appreciation -- but there are places you could buy a place for 400K, which would cost about $1900+taxes; taxes and interest are deductible. Note that, in theory, you should be able to pay about 600k, which would just about buy my house today (with similar loan to income).

At 3% income growth/inflation, when you are my age, you will be making 235K. If you fix your housing (biggest cost) at your current rent, you will be in good shape. Meanwhile, you have paid 20 years off the mortgage. in another 10 years, you own the place.

At the same time, put in 10% to your 401K (or 403b). I assume the company is matching at least 5%; With 8% grown in the markets, and 3% income growth, you about about 1.15 mil in retirement, and you will have paid off half your house -- assuming a modest 2% growth in housing costs, your 400K house is worth 600K, and you now owe 200K.

So, your net worth is about 1.5 mil....

that is how you get comfortable on a middle class salary.

This is good advice, especially on locking in housing costs. The benefit of a 30 year fixed mortgage is huge and shouldn't be passsed up. At the same time you don't want to view your house as an investment or be house poor. I have many friends who make a lot more than I do but they are still renting in NY. Our mortgage was similar to our rent when we purchased a few years ago. Except rent, especially in NY, continues to increase every year. In 10-20 years we will have a joke of a mortgage. Already our incomes have gone up at least 75k since purchasing our home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I make 120K and seem to be "topped out." I work in IT management at a university and I am drowning in debt. I'm 33, divorced, 1 kid, and don't even own a house yet. Most of my friends make less than me. I have a master's degree from a top school (one of the reasons I am drowning in debt).

I go on Indeed.com, Idealist, etc. all the time and I don't really see jobs posted that pay more than mine. How do you get these super-high paying jobs? Are they unlisted?

I found out recently that even my BOSS only makes 10K more than me. Where are you guys finding the "big" jobs? What did you do to get there?

Let me start by saying 120K at 33 is good money. Really good money. You say drowing in debt...how much is that? How is your credit?

FWIW, at 33, I was making about 1/2 of what you make, with probably less debt (no student loan) and more education (PhD); in 2017 dollars, it converts to 90K. Today, 20 years later, I make 175K, I have a house that with 400-500K equity, and I have 900K in retirement.

What did I do? I bought a house. And, I put money away for retirement. Buying the house was done to fix payments at 1999 levels. I was paying 1500/month in rent, and bought a small house (bigger than my appt) in the 'burbs with good schools without changing my payments. So, I locked my payments for rent in at a level that was sustainable with a 60K salary. I got lucky with the appreciation -- but there are places you could buy a place for 400K, which would cost about $1900+taxes; taxes and interest are deductible. Note that, in theory, you should be able to pay about 600k, which would just about buy my house today (with similar loan to income).

At 3% income growth/inflation, when you are my age, you will be making 235K. If you fix your housing (biggest cost) at your current rent, you will be in good shape. Meanwhile, you have paid 20 years off the mortgage. in another 10 years, you own the place.

At the same time, put in 10% to your 401K (or 403b). I assume the company is matching at least 5%; With 8% grown in the markets, and 3% income growth, you about about 1.15 mil in retirement, and you will have paid off half your house -- assuming a modest 2% growth in housing costs, your 400K house is worth 600K, and you now owe 200K.

So, your net worth is about 1.5 mil....

that is how you get comfortable on a middle class salary.

This is good advice, especially on locking in housing costs. The benefit of a 30 year fixed mortgage is huge and shouldn't be passsed up. At the same time you don't want to view your house as an investment or be house poor. I have many friends who make a lot more than I do but they are still renting in NY. Our mortgage was similar to our rent when we purchased a few years ago. Except rent, especially in NY, continues to increase every year. In 10-20 years we will have a joke of a mortgage. Already our incomes have gone up at least 75k since purchasing our home.

This. We are in house #3. Got into the market in 2000. Our PITI for our 3,300 sqft SFH on a half acre 20nin un traffic to our jobs is $2,300/mo. Our income at this point could support a PITI of doyble that, but id prefer to have the extra $28,000 cash in my pocket. Gives us a comfortable life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to all the helpful posters who responded. You gave me a lot to think about.

Someone suggested moving out of the area; I am actually considering doing that. I know that I don't have the skills for sales (or even working closely with the sales team -- it just didn't jive with my personality, which is why I left product management). Similarly, I have worked for myself as a contractor/consultant, but never made more than I am making right now.

I think if I can cut my living expenses and commuting expenses, I will be ok.

As for those in the same shoes, I completely agree about the lack of knowledge/blind, almost fervent belief in education as the answer -- I genuinely believed that getting the most expensive/prestigious education possible would be my ticket out of poverty. (To the person who asked why I paid for my master's degree: my undergraduate degree -- which I also loaned heavily for -- was in political science, so I didn't really have the option of working a great job at a company right after college that would provide generous tuition reimbursement). I still feel as if investing heavily in education paid off, in a way: I'm not living in poverty like my parents, and I actually make more money than most of my friends from back home. But I'm drowning in debt as a result, so maybe I'll move to a cheaper area.

Also a person who came from a poor background here with working poor parents with high school diplomas. They thought any college degree was the ticket to a good salary and had nothing to teach me about saving for retirement or financial planning. My dad had a government job with a pension and they didn't use credit cards, know what an IRA was or do anything more complicated than balance a checkbook. We didn't even have a mortgage because my dad saved to buy land and then built a house on it himself. The whole financial world was scary to them. In college and grad school I choose poorly paid fields because I enjoyed them and didn't know any better. Too bad I can't go back in time and choose better--they were other things I enjoyed in school I just wasn't raised to think about career planning.

We have EERILY the same life- although my mom was always a secret saver and had a good hustle (worked in service industry) so she started "side saving" for herself kind of early one bc divorce was pretty obviously going to happen eventually for them (it did, so she now at least has a modest IRA).
My folks thought going to college and getting a "good job" (meaning just anything in an office setting) was the top- not the bottom. I didn't realize until I was 30 that I started pretty far behind right out of undergrad because I was home working in summers for camps and pools, not interning, since I had no connections after school it would be have been a way to get them. Luckily I was only 20K in debt from school though since I got a lot of scholarships (merit). But man, I can see the huge jump my kids get just from having that guidance- same with my DH in some ways but luckily what he "enjoyed" was engineering!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friends and I are all in IT and we all breaks $300k+ easy.

Several of them work from home and they take two 1099 jobs at the same time as one job is just wasting time. They pull in around $350k. That's work smart, not harder.

I on the other hand specialize in a very specific industry and I pull in $400 to $600k depending on the year. Will make around $650k+ this year.

Good for you! I've been in IT for 30+ years and the most I've ever made was $225k. Now I'm back down to $160K; the older I get the less I make.

[Anonymous]

Consulting. Personal reference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friends and I are all in IT and we all breaks $300k+ easy.

Several of them work from home and they take two 1099 jobs at the same time as one job is just wasting time. They pull in around $350k. That's work smart, not harder.

I on the other hand specialize in a very specific industry and I pull in $400 to $600k depending on the year. Will make around $650k+ this year.

Good for you! I've been in IT for 30+ years and the most I've ever made was $225k. Now I'm back down to $160K; the older I get the less I make.

In think they are independent IT consultants who have connections and know how to negotiate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friends and I are all in IT and we all breaks $300k+ easy.

Several of them work from home and they take two 1099 jobs at the same time as one job is just wasting time. They pull in around $350k. That's work smart, not harder.

I on the other hand specialize in a very specific industry and I pull in $400 to $600k depending on the year. Will make around $650k+ this year.

Please elaborate - http://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-tech-jobs-in-america-2017-3/#-10

Link me to a single IT job posting on Indeed that pays more than $300k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friends and I are all in IT and we all breaks $300k+ easy.

Several of them work from home and they take two 1099 jobs at the same time as one job is just wasting time. They pull in around $350k. That's work smart, not harder.

I on the other hand specialize in a very specific industry and I pull in $400 to $600k depending on the year. Will make around $650k+ this year.

Please elaborate - http://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-tech-jobs-in-america-2017-3/#-10

Link me to a single IT job posting on Indeed that pays more than $300k.

That's the 1099 PP point, these are more akin to small business owners. They come into the customer (usually a small business or maybe a smaller agency -- someone without deep IT expertise or knowledge), they sign up for a project or support contract such as implementing an ordering system or setting up AWS document management, nothing really sophisticated totally boiler plate solutions they use over and over again

The secret sauce is to borrow a page from Tim Ferris and outsource most of the technical work to India. Also the connections on landing the contract, ive seen things like one of their big customers son's IT consultantany is used. But not just nepotism but it's a very inefficient marketplace built on who you know which is why prices remain high.

[Anonymous]

I have a BS in biology and started out making peanuts at a pharmaceutical company. Worked my way up to manager by 30 and was making 80k in 2001 and felt like I was killing it. Made a switch over to quality assurance and now am at VP level and making mod 200s plus bonus and stock options. I worked hard and became an expert.

[Anonymous]

OP, I was 38 before I broke the six figure mark, and I had nowhere near the job stability, work/life balance, tuition benefits, or stimulating environment of a college campus.

You are pretty highly paid for your setting, and your employer is one that offers other perks that may not be hugely valuable to you at the moment but could be massive in a few years (depending on the age of your child.)

I think you need to focus on living well within your means, and figuring out a debt management plan. Do you qualify for any debt consolidation, loan deferment, or restructuring options? Can you consider a bit of additional income at the 1099 level if you can find it? Can you have a "5 year of living as close to the bone as possible" plan to pay down debt and then feel more able to plan?

As you said, your income is not the problem - it's the debt. I'd focus on that, rather than upending stable employment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friends and I are all in IT and we all breaks $300k+ easy.

Several of them work from home and they take two 1099 jobs at the same time as one job is just wasting time. They pull in around $350k. That's work smart, not harder.

I on the other hand specialize in a very specific industry and I pull in $400 to $600k depending on the year. Will make around $650k+ this year.

Please elaborate - http://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-tech-jobs-in-america-2017-3/#-10

Link me to a single IT job posting on Indeed that pays more than $300k.

That's the 1099 PP point, these are more akin to small business owners. They come into the customer (usually a small business or maybe a smaller agency -- someone without deep IT expertise or knowledge), they sign up for a project or support contract such as implementing an ordering system or setting up AWS document management, nothing really sophisticated totally boiler plate solutions they use over and over again

The secret sauce is to borrow a page from Tim Ferris and outsource most of the technical work to India. Also the connections on landing the contract, ive seen things like one of their big customers son's IT consultantany is used. But not just nepotism but it's a very inefficient marketplace built on who you know which is why prices remain high.

1099 works when things are going well. But, you are then an independent business person. You need to budget accordingly. In exchange for the higher salaries, you have no benefits (you / your business provides them). You have to pay the self employment tax; you have no vacation, etc). You supply your own health Ins., your own disability insurance, etc.

I make 200K (or so). Let me show what my equivalent 1099 salary would be (per hour):

200K: I work 8 hours per day, or 2080/yr minus vacation (24 days) and holidays (9). So I work 1816 hours per year.
I get a 6% 401K match, so, I am really earning 200*1.06=212/yr

Self employment tax is 7.5% (employers part of soc. security).
Health Insurance is 13K/yr per reports; I have disability insurance; for me that would be about 8% (health issues...) or 16K/yr.

I have professional development, which is attending conferences. That is about 4K/yr.

So, my 200K salary to match as a 1099 would be 200*(1+0.075+0.06)+13+16+4=260K.

260K/1816 hours =143/hr.

To make 300K, how many hours do you have to work? I bet they are many more hours than I do. I will take my life over yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friends and I are all in IT and we all breaks $300k+ easy.

Several of them work from home and they take two 1099 jobs at the same time as one job is just wasting time. They pull in around $350k. That's work smart, not harder.

I on the other hand specialize in a very specific industry and I pull in $400 to $600k depending on the year. Will make around $650k+ this year.

Please elaborate - http://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-tech-jobs-in-america-2017-3/#-10

Link me to a single IT job posting on Indeed that pays more than $300k.

That's the 1099 PP point, these are more akin to small business owners. They come into the customer (usually a small business or maybe a smaller agency -- someone without deep IT expertise or knowledge), they sign up for a project or support contract such as implementing an ordering system or setting up AWS document management, nothing really sophisticated totally boiler plate solutions they use over and over again

The secret sauce is to borrow a page from Tim Ferris and outsource most of the technical work to India. Also the connections on landing the contract, ive seen things like one of their big customers son's IT consultantany is used. But not just nepotism but it's a very inefficient marketplace built on who you know which is why prices remain high.

1099 works when things are going well. But, you are then an independent business person. You need to budget accordingly. In exchange for the higher salaries, you have no benefits (you / your business provides them). You have to pay the self employment tax; you have no vacation, etc). You supply your own health Ins., your own disability insurance, etc.

I make 200K (or so). Let me show what my equivalent 1099 salary would be (per hour):

200K: I work 8 hours per day, or 2080/yr minus vacation (24 days) and holidays (9). So I work 1816 hours per year.
I get a 6% 401K match, so, I am really earning 200*1.06=212/yr

Self employment tax is 7.5% (employers part of soc. security).
Health Insurance is 13K/yr per reports; I have disability insurance; for me that would be about 8% (health issues...) or 16K/yr.

I have professional development, which is attending conferences. That is about 4K/yr.

So, my 200K salary to match as a 1099 would be 200*(1+0.075+0.06)+13+16+4=260K.

260K/1816 hours =143/hr.

To make 300K, how many hours do you have to work? I bet they are many more hours than I do. I will take my life over yours.

Well OP would be happy to make $200k -- what do you do to do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friends and I are all in IT and we all breaks $300k+ easy.

Several of them work from home and they take two 1099 jobs at the same time as one job is just wasting time. They pull in around $350k. That's work smart, not harder.

I on the other hand specialize in a very specific industry and I pull in $400 to $600k depending on the year. Will make around $650k+ this year.

Please elaborate - http://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-tech-jobs-in-america-2017-3/#-10

Link me to a single IT job posting on Indeed that pays more than $300k.

That's the 1099 PP point, these are more akin to small business owners. They come into the customer (usually a small business or maybe a smaller agency -- someone without deep IT expertise or knowledge), they sign up for a project or support contract such as implementing an ordering system or setting up AWS document management, nothing really sophisticated totally boiler plate solutions they use over and over again

The secret sauce is to borrow a page from Tim Ferris and outsource most of the technical work to India. Also the connections on landing the contract, ive seen things like one of their big customers son's IT consultantany is used. But not just nepotism but it's a very inefficient marketplace built on who you know which is why prices remain high.

1099 works when things are going well. But, you are then an independent business person. You need to budget accordingly. In exchange for the higher salaries, you have no benefits (you / your business provides them). You have to pay the self employment tax; you have no vacation, etc). You supply your own health Ins., your own disability insurance, etc.

I make 200K (or so). Let me show what my equivalent 1099 salary would be (per hour):

200K: I work 8 hours per day, or 2080/yr minus vacation (24 days) and holidays (9). So I work 1816 hours per year.
I get a 6% 401K match, so, I am really earning 200*1.06=212/yr

Self employment tax is 7.5% (employers part of soc. security).
Health Insurance is 13K/yr per reports; I have disability insurance; for me that would be about 8% (health issues...) or 16K/yr.

I have professional development, which is attending conferences. That is about 4K/yr.

So, my 200K salary to match as a 1099 would be 200*(1+0.075+0.06)+13+16+4=260K.

260K/1816 hours =143/hr.

To make 300K, how many hours do you have to work? I bet they are many more hours than I do. I will take my life over yours.

Well OP would be happy to make $200k -- what do you do to do that?

I have posted in the thread before. Difference is I have 20 more years experience.