No benefit for attending a top ranked high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. What matters about PP's projects is not the project per se but the experiences of working as a team, working hard to achieve a specific outcome, working on the same project over a long period of time, overcoming obstacles, and ultimately producing/achieving something you can be proud of. Most teens don't have these experiences in HS. And they are experiences that can really make a difference in all facets of adult life.

PP. exactly. Thank you. It didn't seem worth it to argue with PP. but what impressed me was that these projects took anywhere from 9 weeks to a year of solid work. Two of the three were in assigned group. There were group presentation /competition elements etc. the IBET project was multidisciplinary, and was the final exam grade in English (scientific writing), Biology (the experiment itself) and design technology (the things they designed and built from scratch to conduct the experiment). Plus heavily relied on what they learned in first semester Research stats. If you can't see that having to work with three other people you might or might not like over a full year on a major project that is a significant part of your final grade, publicly, at Tj's annual symposium is character building and excellent preparation for the real world, as well as an academic challenge, I can't help you.

And TJ kids are very smart and very motivated. Many do really enjoy school. But if you think TJ kids are these unidimensional nerdy pod people, you don't know many TJ kids.

Those projects sound great. I'm sure only TJ kids get this type of exposure LOLZZ

How many kids from TJ go on to serve their country?

How many division one athletes?

It sounds like you are obsessed about academics and think that this is THE path to success.Most of these kids are doing stuff like TJ because their parents put immense pressure on them. So what if your kid becomes an investment banker? He will make a ton of money but will still be a slave, just like he his now.

I know it's hard for snobs to believe this, but you can go into the military and become a doctor, or go to a crappy high school and be an engineer or whatever. There isn't a perfect formula for success.

New PP. I agree there is not a perfect formula for success and you are correct that people have found it via less popular paths. However, a good, stable school with excellent and engaged teachers and a positive, hard -working student body actually provides the best chance for MORE kids to do well. Those who might otherwise fall through the cracks, who find school is actually their safe haven in an otherwise tumultuous home. Not everyone rises above the challenges of their mediocrity (in terms of schools), plenty of students are crushed and forgotten by that.

It is just foolish to say that a good school doesn't provide you with greater opportunities and chances to succeed, it does, quite obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:California here. What is TJ?

Thomas Jefferson High School. The premise of it is stupid. These "specialty" schools are ridiculous and drain taxpayers dollars. Kids and in other countries blow us away in math, science, etc., without creating these schools that sound so cool and trendy.

Googled it. Strange school. Doesn't look like it provides a high school experience. Only 2% reduced/free lunches in a magnet is very strange.

[Anonymous]

There is a Quora question thread about what it is like to attend TJ and most of the answers sound like regular high school -- except with the added benefit of college level classes and being surrounded by exceptionally smart students. And some of the students found it to be their best experience (better than Ivy university, key to creating their startup or career, etc.).

[Anonymous]

The benefit of attending a top-ranked high school is the stronger peer group and opportunities to learn at an accelerated pace. Regardless of whether it makes it harder to get into certain schools, it makes it easier to succeed once you're there if you are well prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a Quora question thread about what it is like to attend TJ and most of the answers sound like regular high school -- except with the added benefit of college level classes and being surrounded by exceptionally smart students. And some of the students found it to be their best experience (better than Ivy university, key to creating their startup or career, etc.).

Googled it. Doesn't sound at all like a regular high school. It's all academics.

[Anonymous]

Funny - not what I read in it:

Here's just one quote "you genuinely enjoy one another and go through formative experiences (sports, clubs, trips, dances, romances, family gatherings) during formative years with one another."

Sounds a lot like high school plus accelerated academics.

Which is exactly what DC is experiencing at TJ - doing 2 seasons of sports, attending dances and plays, participating in Model UN conferences all over with kids from 100s of other high schools, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a Quora question thread about what it is like to attend TJ and most of the answers sound like regular high school -- except with the added benefit of college level classes and being surrounded by exceptionally smart students. And some of the students found it to be their best experience (better than Ivy university, key to creating their startup or career, etc.).

It really depends on what you mean by normal high school. It's a normal high school on steroids. It has a full "high school experience." It has homecoming, pep rallies, prom, a Sadies Dance, etc, and "askings weeks" are a big deal. It has a really good marching band and football games (the football team is terrible). It has athletics, with some D1 recruits or recruited athletes, BTW, especially in sports like swimming, tennis, golf, crew and soccer. In fact, a large portion of TJ kids play a sport-- and many play 2 or 3. In has an unbelievable array of clubs and extracurricular activities, and a mandatory 8th period where you have to sign up to attend a club or activity. It has it's own unique traditions and a lot of school spirit. iNite, and Hack TJ and J-Day and the freshman lock-in and tj STAR and no bells to change classes, and the entire school having lunch at the same time, and being able to eat anywhere in the school. There is a lot of school spirit, and a strong alumni base, with TJ grads coming back to the school to hire TJ grads as interns or out of college. TJ grads end up donating a lot of money back. In the past few years, the first wave of kids of TJ as a magnet school kids have been accepted.

But it seems like TJ does everything a 110%. The academics, obviously. It has it's own unique curriculum, with an integrated class structure, college level classes and the required senior research labs. Required design technology. Required CS. Etc. Most kids do at least 2 years of summer school. Most kids end up "majoring" in something STEM-- doing biology, AP Biology and AP Chem, neurobiology and the senior neurobiology research lab, or CA, then AP CS, then 2-4 semester of post-AP CS, then one of the Senior CS labs. Similar tracks in engineering, chemistry, physics, etc. But, also, many of the TJ athletics teams practice what I consider to be a crazy number of hours a week, and win conference and regional and state titles. TJ academic teams win state and national titles. But so did the dance team this year. TJ kids are competitive and motivated, and anything they touch, they do and do and do and do and do. If TJ kids do it, there is an excellent chance they are winning awards for doing it.

And that is how TJ is not at all typical. The kids have almost no down time to hang with friends. And even if they did, their friends would be spread across 4 counties. And even the stuff TJ kids do for fun, like iNite, they do with an intensity I find overwhelming. The kids who thrive at TJ and do well there are the kids who do well in this type of environment. It is not for every kid, or even every very smart kid. It is not what every kid wants out of high school, or what every parent wants out of his go school for their kids. You will never see your TJ kid, because they are always studying or meeting with their group members for something or doing marching band, or conditioning for crew year round, or at crew practice or rehearsing for iNite.

But, the notion that TJ kids do nothing but study is wrong. In fact, TJ kids do things besides study in an extreme way. And while this may not be what you want for your kids, the idea that it has no value for some kids is silly.

To the extent people are interested in learning about what TJ is, rather than bashing TJ based on pre-conceived notions, exploring the TJ website, and looking at the TJ diploma requirements, and courses catalog and lab facilities is interesting. It is also interesting to look at the TJ athletics website, the TJ bands website, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny - not what I read in it:

Here's just one quote "you genuinely enjoy one another and go through formative experiences (sports, clubs, trips, dances, romances, family gatherings) during formative years with one another."

Sounds a lot like high school plus accelerated academics.

Which is exactly what DC is experiencing at TJ - doing 2 seasons of sports, attending dances and plays, participating in Model UN conferences all over with kids from 100s of other high schools, etc.

I read how demographics changed and how it's not reflective at all of the demographics of the school district (racial and socioeconomic). If it was a private school or a neighborhood school, I would not see an issue. Having a magnet of this nature will result in a school for rich Asian kids in several years. No wonder universities are talking explicitly about discounting or upping grades by race now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The admit rate includes people with geographic diversity. Compare to a local HS admit rate. We are in the same boat - extremely challenging, highly-ranked school that is smaller than local HS. From what I can tell, we are sending a higher percentage to top schools compared to the local HS.

why do red staters who hate race-based affirmative action never talk about the geographic affirmative action they/their kids receive when it comes to applying to top schools?

Funny, but those blue state folks from Washington, Oregon, New Mexico, Minnesota, etc. likewise have no problem with geographic affirmative action when applying to East Coast schools. Why is that?

I can't speak to all of the states you mentioned but Washington state kids don't really get that much if any bump - there are too many high scoring people in WA, especially high scoring asians.

You aren't getting any geographically adjustment applying out of Lakeside School, Redmond High, Bellevue High, Mercer Island High, etc.

I'm from Minnesota. On what Planet would someone from Minnesota benefit from geographic affirmative action? Suburban MPLS/St. Paul is home to some of the most affluent, high achieving high schools in the nation- Edina, Minnetonka, Wayzata etc. Tons of kids go to prestigious universities.

I am from Minnesota. I think I got into my Ivy League school because I stood out (30 years ago) in a typical suburban St Paul school. I would've been nobody at BCC/Whitman, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who attended a mediocre public high school, who went on to become really successful, and then sent their kids to a mediocre public high school. It's ridiculous to even entertain this debate.

There aren't any do-overs in life or education. The very real risks of sending your children into less favorable atmospheres far outweigh any perceived or real ding to Ivy League prospects.

I don't know you, probably, but I did this. I went to a very mediocre public high school, and not sure what your definition of success is, but I graduated from a Big 3 Ivy and am working in a respected professional field. I send my children to mediocre DCPS schools, because I think the life skills they get from not having a perfect educational experience is valuable - if they don't feel challenged, they will need to show initiative to follow their passion, and they experience true diversity (rather than the engineered diversity of private schools). I think the hours of homework a day kids have in private schools here are crushing free thought, imagination, and curiosity. High school shouldn't be harder than college, yet that's what's happening here. I think there's enough stress in the mediocre public school. And I'm not worried about their future - these children are loved, privileged, safe, and well off (compared to the rest of the country and the world). I know plenty of my classmates from said Ivy who are underemployed, and plenty of people who went to big instate public university with successful careers.

[Anonymous]

I looked at the Naviance for my kids HS; no child has ever been admitted tomHarvard, and there were quite a few 4.0 1500+ SAT kids. So the 4.7 percent doesn't look that bad to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The admit rate includes people with geographic diversity. Compare to a local HS admit rate. We are in the same boat - extremely challenging, highly-ranked school that is smaller than local HS. From what I can tell, we are sending a higher percentage to top schools compared to the local HS.

why do red staters who hate race-based affirmative action never talk about the geographic affirmative action they/their kids receive when it comes to applying to top schools?

Funny, but those blue state folks from Washington, Oregon, New Mexico, Minnesota, etc. likewise have no problem with geographic affirmative action when applying to East Coast schools. Why is that?

I can't speak to all of the states you mentioned but Washington state kids don't really get that much if any bump - there are too many high scoring people in WA, especially high scoring asians.

You aren't getting any geographically adjustment applying out of Lakeside School, Redmond High, Bellevue High, Mercer Island High, etc.

I'm from Minnesota. On what Planet would someone from Minnesota benefit from geographic affirmative action? Suburban MPLS/St. Paul is home to some of the most affluent, high achieving high schools in the nation- Edina, Minnetonka, Wayzata etc. Tons of kids go to prestigious universities.

I am from Minnesota. I think I got into my Ivy League school because I stood out (30 years ago) in a typical suburban St Paul school. I would've been nobody at BCC/Whitman, etc.

I think you probably got into your Ivy League school because you applied 30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a Quora question thread about what it is like to attend TJ and most of the answers sound like regular high school -- except with the added benefit of college level classes and being surrounded by exceptionally smart students. And some of the students found it to be their best experience (better than Ivy university, key to creating their startup or career, etc.).

It really depends on what you mean by normal high school. It's a normal high school on steroids. It has a full "high school experience." It has homecoming, pep rallies, prom, a Sadies Dance, etc, and "askings weeks" are a big deal. It has a really good marching band and football games (the football team is terrible). It has athletics, with some D1 recruits or recruited athletes, BTW, especially in sports like swimming, tennis, golf, crew and soccer. In fact, a large portion of TJ kids play a sport-- and many play 2 or 3. In has an unbelievable array of clubs and extracurricular activities, and a mandatory 8th period where you have to sign up to attend a club or activity. It has it's own unique traditions and a lot of school spirit. iNite, and Hack TJ and J-Day and the freshman lock-in and tj STAR and no bells to change classes, and the entire school having lunch at the same time, and being able to eat anywhere in the school. There is a lot of school spirit, and a strong alumni base, with TJ grads coming back to the school to hire TJ grads as interns or out of college. TJ grads end up donating a lot of money back. In the past few years, the first wave of kids of TJ as a magnet school kids have been accepted.

But it seems like TJ does everything a 110%. The academics, obviously. It has it's own unique curriculum, with an integrated class structure, college level classes and the required senior research labs. Required design technology. Required CS. Etc. Most kids do at least 2 years of summer school. Most kids end up "majoring" in something STEM-- doing biology, AP Biology and AP Chem, neurobiology and the senior neurobiology research lab, or CA, then AP CS, then 2-4 semester of post-AP CS, then one of the Senior CS labs. Similar tracks in engineering, chemistry, physics, etc. But, also, many of the TJ athletics teams practice what I consider to be a crazy number of hours a week, and win conference and regional and state titles. TJ academic teams win state and national titles. But so did the dance team this year. TJ kids are competitive and motivated, and anything they touch, they do and do and do and do and do. If TJ kids do it, there is an excellent chance they are winning awards for doing it.

And that is how TJ is not at all typical. The kids have almost no down time to hang with friends. And even if they did, their friends would be spread across 4 counties. And even the stuff TJ kids do for fun, like iNite, they do with an intensity I find overwhelming. The kids who thrive at TJ and do well there are the kids who do well in this type of environment. It is not for every kid, or even every very smart kid. It is not what every kid wants out of high school, or what every parent wants out of his go school for their kids. You will never see your TJ kid, because they are always studying or meeting with their group members for something or doing marching band, or conditioning for crew year round, or at crew practice or rehearsing for iNite.

But, the notion that TJ kids do nothing but study is wrong. In fact, TJ kids do things besides study in an extreme way. And while this may not be what you want for your kids, the idea that it has no value for some kids is silly.

To the extent people are interested in learning about what TJ is, rather than bashing TJ based on pre-conceived notions, exploring the TJ website, and looking at the TJ diploma requirements, and courses catalog and lab facilities is interesting. It is also interesting to look at the TJ athletics website, the TJ bands website, etc.

TL; DR (neither TJ nor your kids are interesting enough to bother with this).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
At Wilson the kids going to Ivy's are mostly white students. Are you at a private school? That's where you see a lot of URM's going to Ivy's. At Wilson some Ivy admits are recruited athletes, but for the handful I know they really enjoy their sport and but probably still would've been admitted based on their academics and ECs.

The white Wilson kids heading to Ivies have connected parents who know how to play all the angles. I've seen it first hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I looked at the Naviance for my kids HS; no child has ever been admitted tomHarvard, and there were quite a few 4.0 1500+ SAT kids. So the 4.7 percent doesn't look that bad to me.

How do you look this up?