No benefit for attending a top ranked high school

[Anonymous]

Everyone I know from modest circumstances who now makes good money sends their kids to the best nearby private school or lives in the no 1 or 2 public district in the state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who attended a mediocre public high school, who went on to become really successful, and then sent their kids to a mediocre public high school. It's ridiculous to even entertain this debate.

There aren't any do-overs in life or education. The very real risks of sending your children into less favorable atmospheres far outweigh any perceived or real ding to Ivy League prospects.

You are wrong. There are many onramps to success. For example, open admission community colleges and do well. We are a wealthy country with a lot of opertunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. What matters about PP's projects is not the project per se but the experiences of working as a team, working hard to achieve a specific outcome, working on the same project over a long period of time, overcoming obstacles, and ultimately producing/achieving something you can be proud of. Most teens don't have these experiences in HS. And they are experiences that can really make a difference in all facets of adult life.

PP. exactly. Thank you. It didn't seem worth it to argue with PP. but what impressed me was that these projects took anywhere from 9 weeks to a year of solid work. Two of the three were in assigned group. There were group presentation /competition elements etc. the IBET project was multidisciplinary, and was the final exam grade in English (scientific writing), Biology (the experiment itself) and design technology (the things they designed and built from scratch to conduct the experiment). Plus heavily relied on what they learned in first semester Research stats. If you can't see that having to work with three other people you might or might not like over a full year on a major project that is a significant part of your final grade, publicly, at Tj's annual symposium is character building and excellent preparation for the real world, as well as an academic challenge, I can't help you.

And TJ kids are very smart and very motivated. Many do really enjoy school. But if you think TJ kids are these unidimensional nerdy pod people, you don't know many TJ kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone I know from modest circumstances who now makes good money sends their kids to the best nearby private school or lives in the no 1 or 2 public district in the state.

Very true. DH and I both went to very weak HS in the rural south. Making sure our kids have as good an education as possible is our top priority. We've seen the difference between what our kids have, in terms of teachers, and academics, and peer groups and extracurricular is mind blowing.

[Anonymous]

Ok, we're one of those "came from modest circumstances made good money" couples who sent DC to a top private. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't. It's an effed-up culture, intellectually as well as socially. Very hamster-wheel. Of course, if you're contemplating sending your kids to a mediocre HS in the hope of it offering an admissions advantage to a highly selective college, then you're probably already deeply entrenched in that culture.

If, OTOH, the collective neurosis re best schools just makes you nervous about whether you're not doing the best you can for your kid, then consider the possibility that maybe what got you where you ended up was precisely the fact that school wasn't continually challenging you, so you had time/inclination to develop and pursue your own interests rather than just do the needful/check the boxes/build the resume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, we're one of those "came from modest circumstances made good money" couples who sent DC to a top private. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't. It's an effed-up culture, intellectually as well as socially. Very hamster-wheel. Of course, if you're contemplating sending your kids to a mediocre HS in the hope of it offering an admissions advantage to a highly selective college, then you're probably already deeply entrenched in that culture.

If, OTOH, the collective neurosis re best schools just makes you nervous about whether you're not doing the best you can for your kid, then consider the possibility that maybe what got you where you ended up was precisely the fact that school wasn't continually challenging you, so you had time/inclination to develop and pursue your own interests rather than just do the needful/check the boxes/build the resume.

Great post. I'm really struggling with this issue now. I grew up going to the not very good rural schools near the army posts where my dad was stationed. I got into a very good LAC due in part to geographic diversity factors, I assume. College work was a big shock for me at first, and I really wanted my kids to have the stability and educational advantages I lacked. Married someone who went through the hamster-wheel lifestyle in Bethesda, and we have basically re-created his childhood for our kids. It's a good life in many ways, but the very narrow definitions of success, and the huge fear of failure so many kids struggle with are really depressing. Looking back, I think my childhood was much richer and freer in many ways, though fraught with a lot more actual physical peril.

I encouraged my eldest to look at colleges outside the Northeast power corridor, and am happy she chose a very diverse place with a strong reputation for collaboration. I hope that will help free her to see the world in a different way. Still working on ways to help the younger ones step outside the bubble.

[Anonymous]

Really appreciate hearing these reflections from parents who grew up one way and chose to try something different with their kids. Interesting insights!

[Anonymous]

If the experience of attending a top-ranked high school (such as TJ) is worthwhile for a student--and it will be for enough students, no matter what critics of TJ would claim--then that student will make his/her way to a great college that is a wonderful fit for them. Perhaps they may need to look beyond the typical choices, but there will be colleges that are happy to have them as students.

But the truth is still there: MIT and UVA will only be able to accept so many TJ grads.

[Anonymous]

Grew up in a low ranked local public school with mostly distracted teachers - a lot of drugs, fights, sassy students etc. to distract them. Did my best to get out as quickly as possible and on my own to community college. Worked my way through to top grad school and top position in my field. But it took a lot of work and frankly, some amazing lucky breaks. Didn't understand what great teaching was until grad school. I wanted better for my kids, earlier. There are a lot of gaps in my education that they won't have. DC is at a top HS now and I wouldn't change it for anything - has learned so so much more about every subject. Even if DC ends up admitted nowhere for college but CC, the education and mental stimulation at such an early and important age is priceless. Realistically the worst option is probably a top 25 SLAC or top 20 university, with an educational background going in that sets DC up to graduate from college at the top of the class. Good result IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. What matters about PP's projects is not the project per se but the experiences of working as a team, working hard to achieve a specific outcome, working on the same project over a long period of time, overcoming obstacles, and ultimately producing/achieving something you can be proud of. Most teens don't have these experiences in HS. And they are experiences that can really make a difference in all facets of adult life.

PP. exactly. Thank you. It didn't seem worth it to argue with PP. but what impressed me was that these projects took anywhere from 9 weeks to a year of solid work. Two of the three were in assigned group. There were group presentation /competition elements etc. the IBET project was multidisciplinary, and was the final exam grade in English (scientific writing), Biology (the experiment itself) and design technology (the things they designed and built from scratch to conduct the experiment). Plus heavily relied on what they learned in first semester Research stats. If you can't see that having to work with three other people you might or might not like over a full year on a major project that is a significant part of your final grade, publicly, at Tj's annual symposium is character building and excellent preparation for the real world, as well as an academic challenge, I can't help you.

And TJ kids are very smart and very motivated. Many do really enjoy school. But if you think TJ kids are these unidimensional nerdy pod people, you don't know many TJ kids.

Those projects sound great. I'm sure only TJ kids get this type of exposure LOLZZ

How many kids from TJ go on to serve their country?

How many division one athletes?

It sounds like you are obsessed about academics and think that this is THE path to success.Most of these kids are doing stuff like TJ because their parents put immense pressure on them. So what if your kid becomes an investment banker? He will make a ton of money but will still be a slave, just like he his now.

I know it's hard for snobs to believe this, but you can go into the military and become a doctor, or go to a crappy high school and be an engineer or whatever. There isn't a perfect formula for success.

[Anonymous]

California here. What is TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:California here. What is TJ?

Thomas Jefferson High School. The premise of it is stupid. These "specialty" schools are ridiculous and drain taxpayers dollars. Kids and in other countries blow us away in math, science, etc., without creating these schools that sound so cool and trendy.

[Anonymous]

PP quick google searches prove otherwise. There are STEM specialized gymnasium in Germany. Chinese universities sponsor STEM high schools. TJ has been involved in training teachers and school administrators from around the world for years who are very interested in the specialized STEM content. Just a few examples...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. What matters about PP's projects is not the project per se but the experiences of working as a team, working hard to achieve a specific outcome, working on the same project over a long period of time, overcoming obstacles, and ultimately producing/achieving something you can be proud of. Most teens don't have these experiences in HS. And they are experiences that can really make a difference in all facets of adult life.

PP. exactly. Thank you. It didn't seem worth it to argue with PP. but what impressed me was that these projects took anywhere from 9 weeks to a year of solid work. Two of the three were in assigned group. There were group presentation /competition elements etc. the IBET project was multidisciplinary, and was the final exam grade in English (scientific writing), Biology (the experiment itself) and design technology (the things they designed and built from scratch to conduct the experiment). Plus heavily relied on what they learned in first semester Research stats. If you can't see that having to work with three other people you might or might not like over a full year on a major project that is a significant part of your final grade, publicly, at Tj's annual symposium is character building and excellent preparation for the real world, as well as an academic challenge, I can't help you.

And TJ kids are very smart and very motivated. Many do really enjoy school. But if you think TJ kids are these unidimensional nerdy pod people, you don't know many TJ kids.

Those projects sound great. I'm sure only TJ kids get this type of exposure LOLZZ

How many kids from TJ go on to serve their country?

How many division one athletes?

It sounds like you are obsessed about academics and think that this is THE path to success.Most of these kids are doing stuff like TJ because their parents put immense pressure on them. So what if your kid becomes an investment banker? He will make a ton of money but will still be a slave, just like he his now.

I know it's hard for snobs to believe this, but you can go into the military and become a doctor, or go to a crappy high school and be an engineer or whatever. There isn't a perfect formula for success.

I'm the first person quoted in this thread (aka "NP"). Not a TJ parent. Didn't say TJ was unique and specifically emphasized that the skills acquired through long-term collaboration had non-academic pay-offs. No one said anything about investment banking (which doesn't seem like the kind of job HS kids at TJ generally aspire to).

Yes, there are lots of different paths to lucrative careers (if that's what you care about). And whether or not you live a worthwhile and satisfying life has very little to do with where you went to HS. But it hardly follows from that that public STEM-oriented magnet schools are ridiculous or turn kids into slaves or should be eliminated so more kids will rely on Div 1 sports or military service as a means of access to higher education. All these options exist now and appeal/are available to different kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Your child goes to high school to grow up and have an education. You don't send them to a school just for college admissions. How is sending your child to a less resourced school with less experienced teachers and weaker classmates going to improve their education? Pick the best education you can for your child. If they love the sciences, send them to a specialized magnet program. Even if they end up at the state land grant, they will start with a better foundation than most of their college classmates. No school is going to automatically get them into a top tier college. Exeter and Andover may send 25% of their class to HYPS, but 20% are legacy development cases.

I mostly agree with this. Ds is at blair science magnet and it is very hard to get straight As and extremely hard to stand out We thought about whether we should send him to our Bethesda area high school to improve his college admissions chances but we never considered it seriously. Ds would not have been happy at his home high school. He loves the challenging curriculum, the other students and the teachers are very good. 40%!of the program goes onto UMD where they typically enroll in their honors program and most get considerable merit aid. This is a definite possibility for ds. We know he will be in good company, and he will have most of his college fund available for grad school. These kids do well upon graduation from UMD so that is reassuring. He will apply to a range of schools mostly top 30 but we don't have tunnel vision

I will never understand parents who skip out on opportunities like TJ to game the system of college admissions. Life does not end when the college letters arrive in May. You are investing in your child's education with a challenging environment and cohort that they will take into college and the workplace. It's a disservice to the student for parents to have this anxiety then consequently steer them away from "hard" things.

To suggest that TJ is the only place in NoVA/Blair (or another magnet) in MoCo where a student can experience "a challenging environment and cohort they will take into college and the workplace" or "hard things", or that a child who elects to attend their base/home school will be unprepared for the rigors of college and career is silly to the point of absurdity.

You do realize that the premise of this thread is "why bother going to a top high school when you can just go to a 'lesser' high school and stand out?". Reading comprehension is useful.

I find this thread fascinating. My kid goes to Wilson high school in DC and when I go on Naviance the rate of acceptance at Ivy's is higher than what the OP posted. I think the bottom line is that the top schools are looking for more than high SATs and grades. Students coming from a diverse urban school district probably have a leg up on this.

Do you have a sense of how many of those Ivy acceptances are kids who are URMs or recruited athletes or legacies? Our school has really great acceptance rates to a lot of top schools as well, but once they publish the list of which kids are attending which colleges, the picture looks different. With that info you can tell that a small handful of kids--most URMs--were accepted to a large number of top schools. Unhooked kids with impressive stats and ECs do extremely well (much better than the national average) at most of the USNWR 10-30 range schools though and I've assumed that some of that is due to our HS's strong academic reputation.

At Wilson the kids going to Ivy's are mostly white students. Are you at a private school? That's where you see a lot of URM's going to Ivy's. At Wilson some Ivy admits are recruited athletes, but for the handful I know they really enjoy their sport and but probably still would've been admitted based on their academics and ECs.