ok, don't crucify me.. question about financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More and more schools are trying to craft FA models that seek to spread the FA dollars along the full spectrum of families - some poor, some middle class (however you want to define that, but let's just say it is the families in an area like DC where HHIs in the $200k to $300k range are not super rich), some really rich.

Herein lies my problem with some of the posts in this thread. Not being rich or super-rich doesn't automatically make you middle class! You can be upper class, but not rich. Why is being upper class so hard for some people to own?

I wrote the first statement here and I use middle class as a short hand for the middle income set in terms of looking at financial aid. I agree with your larger point that what people in this area tend to think of as a middle class is really wealthy by most any measure. Your point does highlight, a little, my larger point, which is that some of the venom in threads like these is that so many of us come at these issues with different language to describe ranges of income and socio-economic status.

What irks me about these type of posts is when people who make so much money and have assets they won't or "can't" touch think they are somehow entitled to FA. I see that if you are new to private schools, you wouldn't understand that schools get their financial aid funds from other parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wrote the first statement here and I use middle class as a short hand for the middle income set in terms of looking at financial aid. I agree with your larger point that what people in this area tend to think of as a middle class is really wealthy by most any measure. Your point does highlight, a little, my larger point, which is that some of the venom in threads like these is that so many of us come at these issues with different language to describe ranges of income and socio-economic status.

What irks me about these type of posts is when people who make so much money and have assets they won't or "can't" touch think they are somehow entitled to FA. I see that if you are new to private schools, you wouldn't understand that schools get their financial aid funds from other parents.
Exactly. All else being equal, to me a family with a $300K HHI sending their kids to public is just as upper class as a family with a $300K HHI who has instead chosen to send their kids to private. The latter may feel less "upper class" or "rich," but that was their freely chosen path.

[Anonymous]

OP, I have $700,000 in my savings account. Should I get financial aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More and more schools are trying to craft FA models that seek to spread the FA dollars along the full spectrum of families - some poor, some middle class (however you want to define that, but let's just say it is the families in an area like DC where HHIs in the $200k to $300k range are not super rich), some really rich.

Herein lies my problem with some of the posts in this thread. Not being rich or super-rich doesn't automatically make you middle class! You can be upper class, but not rich. Why is being upper class so hard for some people to own?

I wrote the first statement here and I use middle class as a short hand for the middle income set in terms of looking at financial aid. I agree with your larger point that what people in this area tend to think of as a middle class is really wealthy by most any measure. Your point does highlight, a little, my larger point, which is that some of the venom in threads like these is that so many of us come at these issues with different language to describe ranges of income and socio-economic status.

What irks me about these type of posts is when people who make so much money and have assets they won't or "can't" touch think they are somehow entitled to FA. I see that if you are new to private schools, you wouldn't understand that schools get their financial aid funds from other parents.

So take your frustration to your school's administration and ask to have a hand in the decision-making process for financial aid. I'm sure they'll love the idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So take your frustration to your school's administration and ask to have a hand in the decision-making process for financial aid. I'm sure they'll love the idea.

So unless parents ask their schools to have FA decision-making power, they aren't allowed to criticize anyone or complain about the process on an anonymous message board?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So take your frustration to your school's administration and ask to have a hand in the decision-making process for financial aid. I'm sure they'll love the idea.

So unless parents ask their schools to have FA decision-making power, they aren't allowed to criticize anyone or complain about the process on an anonymous message board?

It's just not very productive. And yes, there are a few (although not many) schools who have parent/community boards that help oversee financial aid allocations. And there are many others who welcome parent input on policies around aid. There is a lot of strong research around how different approaches to aid (and how it is marketed to prospective families) yield different outcomes, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So take your frustration to your school's administration and ask to have a hand in the decision-making process for financial aid. I'm sure they'll love the idea.

So unless parents ask their schools to have FA decision-making power, they aren't allowed to criticize anyone or complain about the process on an anonymous message board?

It's just not very productive. And yes, there are a few (although not many) schools who have parent/community boards that help oversee financial aid allocations. And there are many others who welcome parent input on policies around aid. There is a lot of strong research around how different approaches to aid (and how it is marketed to prospective families) yield different outcomes, too.

Actually I bet frank discussions on public boards like this are very productive. I bet more than a few administrators read these, and thus are more informed on how many people really feel, behind all the smiles at the concept of "raise your paddle" at the auction.

[Anonymous]

I am starting to feel like most financial aid is actually a disservice. It encourages families who cannot truly afford the luxury of private school to spend whatever they can set aside, instead of saving for college, retirement and paying off their mortgage. Because they have not saved for college, the cycle repeats with these families expecting taxpayers, full pay families and endowments to fund most college expenses. Undoubtedly, their children will still end up with large student loans AND parents who are unprepared for retirement. Why should private schools promote this irresponsible path? And guilt trip other parents who don't support it? We just have a really warped view of needs vs. wants in our society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to feel like most financial aid is actually a disservice. It encourages families who cannot truly afford the luxury of private school to spend whatever they can set aside, instead of saving for college, retirement and paying off their mortgage. Because they have not saved for college, the cycle repeats with these families expecting taxpayers, full pay families and endowments to fund most college expenses. Undoubtedly, their children will still end up with large student loans AND parents who are unprepared for retirement. Why should private schools promote this irresponsible path? And guilt trip other parents who don't support it? We just have a really warped view of needs vs. wants in our society.

The private schools are just thinking of their own institution. They want the best mix of super bright kids, athletes, artists and kids from different backgrounds tvatvtvey can get. That gives the school 'meaning' and people thus desire to send their kids to said school. If it was just rich kids academy no one would want to send their kid there. It's all a big balance between getting enough wealthy people to pay full price and even to contribute additionally to the school (to build a new theatre or library, etc) and having a good mix of kids to have a great school.

If you have to worry about whether you're going to raise your paddle or not and where all of your fines are going you can't afford the school either.
Next!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to feel like most financial aid is actually a disservice. It encourages families who cannot truly afford the luxury of private school to spend whatever they can set aside, instead of saving for college, retirement and paying off their mortgage. Because they have not saved for college, the cycle repeats with these families expecting taxpayers, full pay families and endowments to fund most college expenses. Undoubtedly, their children will still end up with large student loans AND parents who are unprepared for retirement. Why should private schools promote this irresponsible path? And guilt trip other parents who don't support it? We just have a really warped view of needs vs. wants in our society.

The private schools are just thinking of their own institution. They want the best mix of super bright kids, athletes, artists and kids from different backgrounds tvatvtvey can get. That gives the school 'meaning' and people thus desire to send their kids to said school. If it was just rich kids academy no one would want to send their kid there. It's all a big balance between getting enough wealthy people to pay full price and even to contribute additionally to the school (to build a new theatre or library, etc) and having a good mix of kids to have a great school.

If you have to worry about whether you're going to raise your paddle or not and where all of your dimes are going you can't afford the school either.
Next!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to feel like most financial aid is actually a disservice. It encourages families who cannot truly afford the luxury of private school to spend whatever they can set aside, instead of saving for college, retirement and paying off their mortgage. Because they have not saved for college, the cycle repeats with these families expecting taxpayers, full pay families and endowments to fund most college expenses. Undoubtedly, their children will still end up with large student loans AND parents who are unprepared for retirement. Why should private schools promote this irresponsible path? And guilt trip other parents who don't support it? We just have a really warped view of needs vs. wants in our society.

I know some people aren't going to like this , but:

We save aggressively for retirement and also receive a lot of FA (60%). My older DH's account is being fully funded, and mine nearly so. At our income level, that's probably unusual. We do it by living within our means, with "our means" being what's left over after paying tuition and paying into retirement. We have a townhouse in a part of town most people here probably don't live in, one car, and buy our clothes at thrift stores. No regrets – our kid is getting a superb education, while at our crappy public school a teacher was recently arrested for punching a child. No thanks.

It is true that we are saving a zero for college, but our kid is just going to have to be smart about choosing which college to go to. I'm OK with that. We have the substantial sum we've been paying towards his private school tuition can add in, and beyond that we'll figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all of you who are appalled by the middle class needinf FA please do tell exactly who is deserving in your mind? I find it utterly hilarious that you actually believe really poor people are the ones applying for FA. Really poor people are worried about meeting their basic needs, not private school.

Y'all are really delusional about who FA goes to. LMAO

As someone who is by no means wealthy but pays full freight for two kids, through saving, working hard and doing without, I'm happy to answer this.

"Really poor people" are never going to be recipients of FA at these schools, because there are too many other barriers to them going. But I would be MUCH more excited about my FA "donations" (that I am required to make) if I thought they were going to kids whose families would support them but otherwise truly would not have a chance to be there. Where are the kids of firefighters, police officers, and other first responders? Where are the kids of the new immigrant family whose parents work more than one job to support the family, but want the best for their kids in education?

No, "y'all" are not delusional at all about who FA goes to. Too many times it goes to families like OPs, who are doing nothing to diversify our schools or add help any child who would not otherwise have a perfectly fine if not brand-name education. That is why many of us are resentful of it.

This is a fair response and in my experience (or rather speaking for myself) our $220K includes a teacher salary (a teacher who has $100K in student loans between undergrad and grad school). Sometimes just looking at a families HHI does not paint the full picture.

What does a teacher's salary have to do with it? Teachers can make a lot more than many other professions and $220 is a really good income. And, student loans are your choice and responsibility. If you want your kid in private, reduce expenses or go to an affordable one like we did which was under $12K a year. (eventually we went public). Its offensive to see people overspending living in grand houses when some of us live in tiny houses and make good choices. FA should be for people who truly need it, not a teacher's child where the teacher can send their kid to public and supplement at home given they have the skills. You are far from poor.

I never said I was poor. LOL. Since we are getting FA, guess what? The school seems to agree we NEED it. I'm not interested in public school. So thanks for the suggestion, but no thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to feel like most financial aid is actually a disservice. It encourages families who cannot truly afford the luxury of private school to spend whatever they can set aside, instead of saving for college, retirement and paying off their mortgage. Because they have not saved for college, the cycle repeats with these families expecting taxpayers, full pay families and endowments to fund most college expenses. Undoubtedly, their children will still end up with large student loans AND parents who are unprepared for retirement. Why should private schools promote this irresponsible path? And guilt trip other parents who don't support it? We just have a really warped view of needs vs. wants in our society.

I know some people aren't going to like this , but:

We save aggressively for retirement and also receive a lot of FA (60%). My older DH's account is being fully funded, and mine nearly so. At our income level, that's probably unusual. We do it by living within our means, with "our means" being what's left over after paying tuition and paying into retirement. We have a townhouse in a part of town most people here probably don't live in, one car, and buy our clothes at thrift stores. No regrets – our kid is getting a superb education, while at our crappy public school a teacher was recently arrested for punching a child. No thanks.

It is true that we are saving a zero for college, but our kid is just going to have to be smart about choosing which college to go to. I'm OK with that. We have the substantial sum we've been paying towards his private school tuition can add in, and beyond that we'll figure it out.

Your post really bothers me. Your savings for retirement should be going to your kids tuition if it's that important to you. You basically want someone else to supplement your kids education so you can retire.

[Anonymous]

Why do get to have an opinion on the financial decisions of others? And spare me the "my money is funding your child" rhetoric, because it is simply NOT true.

1. No ones tuition -- even you precious full pay people - covers your child'a entire education for the year. If you actually believe that I would suggest you talk to the people on your Board and in the finance office.

2. If you are sooo offended that you are appalled at the idea of donating...then DONT. If what you worried about are appearances, then you deserve having to come up off money you don't want to.

4. Finally, worry about YOURSELF. Sit on your high horse abs pat yourself on the back for not needing FA or not being willing to lower and demean yourself to ask for any because your pride is fatter than your bank account.

3. Here is a novel idea -- YOU send your kids to public school and you won't have to worry about what's going on at the private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to feel like most financial aid is actually a disservice. It encourages families who cannot truly afford the luxury of private school to spend whatever they can set aside, instead of saving for college, retirement and paying off their mortgage. Because they have not saved for college, the cycle repeats with these families expecting taxpayers, full pay families and endowments to fund most college expenses. Undoubtedly, their children will still end up with large student loans AND parents who are unprepared for retirement. Why should private schools promote this irresponsible path? And guilt trip other parents who don't support it? We just have a really warped view of needs vs. wants in our society.

I know some people aren't going to like this , but:

We save aggressively for retirement and also receive a lot of FA (60%). My older DH's account is being fully funded, and mine nearly so. At our income level, that's probably unusual. We do it by living within our means, with "our means" being what's left over after paying tuition and paying into retirement. We have a townhouse in a part of town most people here probably don't live in, one car, and buy our clothes at thrift stores. No regrets – our kid is getting a superb education, while at our crappy public school a teacher was recently arrested for punching a child. No thanks.

It is true that we are saving a zero for college, but our kid is just going to have to be smart about choosing which college to go to. I'm OK with that. We have the substantial sum we've been paying towards his private school tuition can add in, and beyond that we'll figure it out.

Your post really bothers me. Your savings for retirement should be going to your kids tuition if it's that important to you. You basically want someone else to supplement your kids education so you can retire.

Yeah, I knew it would bother some people. But financial aid offices don't expect or want people to neglect their retirement for tuition. I am 100% honest on my FA forms. I was responding to the person above who thought that FA just encourages financial irresponsibly. And indeed it would, if parents were expected to save $0 for retirement.

But they aren't. FA offices actually encourage financial responsibility by allowing relatively large retirement contributions.