How is HB still allowed to exist given the overcrowding?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is not HB. The problem is a failure of the school board and county board to adequately plan for growth among young families in Arlington between 2000 and the present. HB is a convenient target, but neither the cause nor the solution to the overcrowding problems.

HB is not the only problem, but the SB's willingness to let it stay small is symptomatic of the inability to adopt realistic solutions to current and future problems.

The SB isn't alone in that. The Taylor parents who whined their way into the HB/Stratford building made things worse. There's plenty of blame to go around, and the bad decisions' being set in stone with the claim that a decision has been made and will not be revisited, no matter how bad the decision and how much new information has come to light since it was made, are pretty much a guarantee that nothing is going to get fixed.

I'm just hoping my kids graduate before the roof caves in.

If a decision were made to double the size of HB, WHERE WOULD THE SCHOOL GO?

Again, this is not about HB. It is about a lack of will to acquire and designate space for a 4th high school.

When you argue that HB needs to take more students, what you are saying is that we need a 4th comprehensive high school. Dramatically increasing the size of HB will effectively kill that program.

But now, instead of fighting one fight (4th high school!), you are fighting two (4th high school! and Save HB!). By doing this you needlessly burn political capital and you make enemies among people who could have been allies. School board members get lobbied hard from both sides. It looks like constituents disagree wildly, so the SB has trouble figuring out where consensus lies.

Forget about HB. Focus on the end game. Getting rid of HB doesn't get you what we need. We could kill HB tomorrow, and we still don't have what we need.

See, I disagree. I'm willing to take on the Save HB! crowd too. I don't like the program precisely because "dramatically increasing the size of HB will effectively kill that program." It is a program that is by nature exclusive (it is awesome because it excludes many people who want to be there). I don't want to pay for this! The unfairness of this is as big an issue for me as a 4th HS. Maybe you could consider not fighting those of us who feel this program is unfair. Burns your political capital.

Well, as someone who lives in south Arlington, I think it's pretty unfair that Arlington has drawn elementary school boundaries in such as way that some people can pretty much guarantee that there will be no poor children, no English language learners, and almost no children whose parents aren't highly educated in certain schools, while we also have a half dozen extremely high poverty schools, some that also have very high concentrations of students who don't speak English and parents who don't speak English and don't have a cultural tradition of school involvement. The school board could fix that situation with the stroke of a pen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is not HB. The problem is a failure of the school board and county board to adequately plan for growth among young families in Arlington between 2000 and the present. HB is a convenient target, but neither the cause nor the solution to the overcrowding problems.

HB is not the only problem, but the SB's willingness to let it stay small is symptomatic of the inability to adopt realistic solutions to current and future problems.

The SB isn't alone in that. The Taylor parents who whined their way into the HB/Stratford building made things worse. There's plenty of blame to go around, and the bad decisions' being set in stone with the claim that a decision has been made and will not be revisited, no matter how bad the decision and how much new information has come to light since it was made, are pretty much a guarantee that nothing is going to get fixed.

I'm just hoping my kids graduate before the roof caves in.

If a decision were made to double the size of HB, WHERE WOULD THE SCHOOL GO?

Again, this is not about HB. It is about a lack of will to acquire and designate space for a 4th high school.

When you argue that HB needs to take more students, what you are saying is that we need a 4th comprehensive high school. Dramatically increasing the size of HB will effectively kill that program.

But now, instead of fighting one fight (4th high school!), you are fighting two (4th high school! and Save HB!). By doing this you needlessly burn political capital and you make enemies among people who could have been allies. School board members get lobbied hard from both sides. It looks like constituents disagree wildly, so the SB has trouble figuring out where consensus lies.

Forget about HB. Focus on the end game. Getting rid of HB doesn't get you what we need. We could kill HB tomorrow, and we still don't have what we need.

See, I disagree. I'm willing to take on the Save HB! crowd too. I don't like the program precisely because "dramatically increasing the size of HB will effectively kill that program." It is a program that is by nature exclusive (it is awesome because it excludes many people who want to be there). I don't want to pay for this! The unfairness of this is as big an issue for me as a 4th HS. Maybe you could consider not fighting those of us who feel this program is unfair. Burns your political capital.

Seriously, bean-counting is such an unpleasant personality trait. The material benefit you/your kids would gain from the shuttering of HB is almost immeasurably small, surely you realize that?

(my kids are at W-L)

Ah, apologies for the unpleasantness! Paying for private school for other people's kids is unpleasant too. What material benefit do your kids get from keeping the program? From my end, my kid gets exactly the same education as other taxpayers' kids get, not a second class one. That's what public school is. A mission that all kids are educated together, not in an Animal Farm environment. That is unacceptable to me. And in more than just a material way.

[Anonymous]

I do wonder why those Yorktown and W–L parents who are so upset about the disparities between their schools and H-B have been so oblivious to the even lower quality of education at Wakefield. Could it be they are not quite as egalitarian as they like to profess and actually just don't like always getting the best deal in APS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is not HB. The problem is a failure of the school board and county board to adequately plan for growth among young families in Arlington between 2000 and the present. HB is a convenient target, but neither the cause nor the solution to the overcrowding problems.

HB is not the only problem, but the SB's willingness to let it stay small is symptomatic of the inability to adopt realistic solutions to current and future problems.

The SB isn't alone in that. The Taylor parents who whined their way into the HB/Stratford building made things worse. There's plenty of blame to go around, and the bad decisions' being set in stone with the claim that a decision has been made and will not be revisited, no matter how bad the decision and how much new information has come to light since it was made, are pretty much a guarantee that nothing is going to get fixed.

I'm just hoping my kids graduate before the roof caves in.

If a decision were made to double the size of HB, WHERE WOULD THE SCHOOL GO?

Again, this is not about HB. It is about a lack of will to acquire and designate space for a 4th high school.

When you argue that HB needs to take more students, what you are saying is that we need a 4th comprehensive high school. Dramatically increasing the size of HB will effectively kill that program.

But now, instead of fighting one fight (4th high school!), you are fighting two (4th high school! and Save HB!). By doing this you needlessly burn political capital and you make enemies among people who could have been allies. School board members get lobbied hard from both sides. It looks like constituents disagree wildly, so the SB has trouble figuring out where consensus lies.

Forget about HB. Focus on the end game. Getting rid of HB doesn't get you what we need. We could kill HB tomorrow, and we still don't have what we need.

See, I disagree. I'm willing to take on the Save HB! crowd too. I don't like the program precisely because "dramatically increasing the size of HB will effectively kill that program." It is a program that is by nature exclusive (it is awesome because it excludes many people who want to be there). I don't want to pay for this! The unfairness of this is as big an issue for me as a 4th HS. Maybe you could consider not fighting those of us who feel this program is unfair. Burns your political capital.

Seriously, bean-counting is such an unpleasant personality trait. The material benefit you/your kids would gain from the shuttering of HB is almost immeasurably small, surely you realize that?

(my kids are at W-L)

Ah, apologies for the unpleasantness! Paying for private school for other people's kids is unpleasant too. What material benefit do your kids get from keeping the program? From my end, my kid gets exactly the same education as other taxpayers' kids get, not a second class one. That's what public school is. A mission that all kids are educated together, not in an Animal Farm environment. That is unacceptable to me. And in more than just a material way.

Other People's Children going to HB doesn't affect me and mine at all. I don't perceive that my children get a second class education at W-L. They are doing well. And they are educated with almost 3000 other students, so I feel that the mission that "all kids are educated together" is, for all intents and purposes, being carried out at fairly well. If HB were closed tomorrow, I wouldn't notice. I am 100% certain my taxes would remain unchanged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder why those Yorktown and W–L parents who are so upset about the disparities between their schools and H-B have been so oblivious to the even lower quality of education at Wakefield. Could it be they are not quite as egalitarian as they like to profess and actually just don't like always getting the best deal in APS?

ding ding!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OTOH, I don't believe the school board decided on a 1300 TBD high school because they see some great demand for a specialty school. I think they decided on a 1300 TBD high school because they have a building they think they can cram 1300 kids into. Unfortunately, the building happens to be on W-L's campus. Can you imagine what the response would be if they said, "We are solving our crowding problems by converting the admin building into classroom space for W-L. W-L will now have space for 4000 students." They know no one likes that idea, so they float the special program idea instead. But the upshot is the same--almost 4000 students using W-L's gym, auditorium, library, and athletic fields.

Let's put a 1300-seat HB in the Admin building and turn the Wilson building into a combo Stratford/Children's School/Integration Station/specialty HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder why those Yorktown and W–L parents who are so upset about the disparities between their schools and H-B have been so oblivious to the even lower quality of education at Wakefield. Could it be they are not quite as egalitarian as they like to profess and actually just don't like always getting the best deal in APS?

Most everything I've read on here about Wakefield's issues has nothing to do with the quality of education being offered and everything to do with the SES of many of its students. Are you now saying that the teachers, classes, and administration are of a lesser quality than WL, Yorktown and HB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder why those Yorktown and W–L parents who are so upset about the disparities between their schools and H-B have been so oblivious to the even lower quality of education at Wakefield. Could it be they are not quite as egalitarian as they like to profess and actually just don't like always getting the best deal in APS?

Most everything I've read on here about Wakefield's issues has nothing to do with the quality of education being offered and everything to do with the SES of many of its students. Are you now saying that the teachers, classes, and administration are of a lesser quality than WL, Yorktown and HB?

Not PP, but I suspect that's not what she's saying. Teachers and administrators are excellent, no different from the other two schools (maybe better). But I have heard that not all the same courses are offered, nor extracurricular activities. Those maybe "extras" and some may consider them not to be of great importance, but they are all part of educating the whole child. Not to mention these are things that college admissions officers look at, and parents do, too, when deciding whether to have their students apply for a transfer out of Wakefield.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do wonder why those Yorktown and W–L parents who are so upset about the disparities between their schools and H-B have been so oblivious to the even lower quality of education at Wakefield. Could it be they are not quite as egalitarian as they like to profess and actually just don't like always getting the best deal in APS?

Most everything I've read on here about Wakefield's issues has nothing to do with the quality of education being offered and everything to do with the SES of many of its students. Are you now saying that the teachers, classes, and administration are of a lesser quality than WL, Yorktown and HB?

Having a lopsidedly large lower SES population puts strain on the teachers (even the best) because they have to spend an inordinate amount of time getting those kids to grade level, resulting in a lesser quality of education for all the kids. But I'm sure you already know that No one questions the quality of the teachers or administration at Wakefield.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is not HB. The problem is a failure of the school board and county board to adequately plan for growth among young families in Arlington between 2000 and the present. HB is a convenient target, but neither the cause nor the solution to the overcrowding problems.

This cannot be said too often. Closing HB tomorrow would not solve any problems. That's because the problem is not money per se, the problem is a lack of political will to acquire the space needed to build another comprehensive high school.

Focusing on HB dilutes attention from the real issue.

Your implication that there is just one "real issue" is questionable, especially because it seems to rely on a belief that the schools need to get everything before any other government service gets anything.

It's not a question of political will to do what you have decided is the solution. There is only so much land and money in Arlington, and schools are not the only need. Certainly, building schools that will satisfies the demands of the whiner parents is not only not an "only" need, but actually a want.

There is no political will to tell the entitled of Arlington that they don't get to have everything they want, and that we need to set priorities and learn to compromise.

It no longer serves a 'special purpose'. Students are no longer applying for 'the concept/model'. You don't know how annoyed I was to sit through the orientation and hearing parents all around me saying their kid will have a problem with the 'self-guided/openness' at HB yet they would still accept a spot if offered. I have a kid that fits the classic model---I haven't ever had to sit him down or tell him to do his HW. He is extremely self-guided. He is also very active in trying to make change and be involved in school issues.

It sucks that now it's just a school for everyone trying to avoid over-crowding.

I don't agree that your kid is a "classic" for HB. His innate qualities will serve him well at any Arlington high school. I don't see that type of kid as the classic HB type at all. I think the HB model has the most value for the smart underachiever. JMO.

(Again, I feel the need to keep saying my kids don't go to HB.)

Agree with this. I have a friend who teaches at HB. She always tells parents that HB isn't designed for kids who are self-guided. It is designed to help kids *become* self-guided.

Yet it's all of the over-achiever kids applying and getting spots. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is not HB. The problem is a failure of the school board and county board to adequately plan for growth among young families in Arlington between 2000 and the present. HB is a convenient target, but neither the cause nor the solution to the overcrowding problems.

HB is not the only problem, but the SB's willingness to let it stay small is symptomatic of the inability to adopt realistic solutions to current and future problems.

The SB isn't alone in that. The Taylor parents who whined their way into the HB/Stratford building made things worse. There's plenty of blame to go around, and the bad decisions' being set in stone with the claim that a decision has been made and will not be revisited, no matter how bad the decision and how much new information has come to light since it was made, are pretty much a guarantee that nothing is going to get fixed.

I'm just hoping my kids graduate before the roof caves in.

Ugh. The Taylor thing really pissed me off as my neighborhood was all-set for the Wilson MS. We aren't as busy-body or self-serving so we lost out to the bigger whiners.

Where were you guys at the community meetings? I didn't see any (many) of you at the meetings back in 2013. If you had spoken up then, the SB might not have delayed decisions a few more years.

HB is a small program that was on a huge piece of land. It is a matter of resources. They could have been housed at other smaller sites, which was the pragmatic action. Some members of the SB and the community would have liked to have built higher there and co-located other programs such as Montessori or preschool. I know that ship has sailed, but because HB fought co-location (other than Stratefirs), the cost per seat is insane. Not to mention the gold-plated design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is not HB. The problem is a failure of the school board and county board to adequately plan for growth among young families in Arlington between 2000 and the present. HB is a convenient target, but neither the cause nor the solution to the overcrowding problems.

This cannot be said too often. Closing HB tomorrow would not solve any problems. That's because the problem is not money per se, the problem is a lack of political will to acquire the space needed to build another comprehensive high school.

Focusing on HB dilutes attention from the real issue.

Your implication that there is just one "real issue" is questionable, especially because it seems to rely on a belief that the schools need to get everything before any other government service gets anything.

It's not a question of political will to do what you have decided is the solution. There is only so much land and money in Arlington, and schools are not the only need. Certainly, building schools that will satisfies the demands of the whiner parents is not only not an "only" need, but actually a want.


There is no political will to tell the entitled of Arlington that they don't get to have everything they want, and that we need to set priorities and learn to compromise.

It no longer serves a 'special purpose'. Students are no longer applying for 'the concept/model'. You don't know how annoyed I was to sit through the orientation and hearing parents all around me saying their kid will have a problem with the 'self-guided/openness' at HB yet they would still accept a spot if offered. I have a kid that fits the classic model---I haven't ever had to sit him down or tell him to do his HW. He is extremely self-guided. He is also very active in trying to make change and be involved in school issues.

It sucks that now it's just a school for everyone trying to avoid over-crowding.

I don't agree that your kid is a "classic" for HB. His innate qualities will serve him well at any Arlington high school. I don't see that type of kid as the classic HB type at all. I think the HB model has the most value for the smart underachiever. JMO.

(Again, I feel the need to keep saying my kids don't go to HB.)

Agree with this. I have a friend who teaches at HB. She always tells parents that HB isn't designed for kids who are self-guided. It is designed to help kids *become* self-guided.

Yet it's all of the over-achiever kids applying and getting spots. Please.

The only kid I know at HB has a mom who was an elementary school PTA president. I'm sure that was just a coincidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is not HB. The problem is a failure of the school board and county board to adequately plan for growth among young families in Arlington between 2000 and the present. HB is a convenient target, but neither the cause nor the solution to the overcrowding problems.

This cannot be said too often. Closing HB tomorrow would not solve any problems. That's because the problem is not money per se, the problem is a lack of political will to acquire the space needed to build another comprehensive high school.

Focusing on HB dilutes attention from the real issue.

Your implication that there is just one "real issue" is questionable, especially because it seems to rely on a belief that the schools need to get everything before any other government service gets anything.

It's not a question of political will to do what you have decided is the solution. There is only so much land and money in Arlington, and schools are not the only need. Certainly, building schools that will satisfies the demands of the whiner parents is not only not an "only" need, but actually a want.


There is no political will to tell the entitled of Arlington that they don't get to have everything they want, and that we need to set priorities and learn to compromise.

It no longer serves a 'special purpose'. Students are no longer applying for 'the concept/model'. You don't know how annoyed I was to sit through the orientation and hearing parents all around me saying their kid will have a problem with the 'self-guided/openness' at HB yet they would still accept a spot if offered. I have a kid that fits the classic model---I haven't ever had to sit him down or tell him to do his HW. He is extremely self-guided. He is also very active in trying to make change and be involved in school issues.

It sucks that now it's just a school for everyone trying to avoid over-crowding.

I don't agree that your kid is a "classic" for HB. His innate qualities will serve him well at any Arlington high school. I don't see that type of kid as the classic HB type at all. I think the HB model has the most value for the smart underachiever. JMO.

(Again, I feel the need to keep saying my kids don't go to HB.)

Agree with this. I have a friend who teaches at HB. She always tells parents that HB isn't designed for kids who are self-guided. It is designed to help kids *become* self-guided.

Yet it's all of the over-achiever kids applying and getting spots. Please.

The only kid I know at HB has a mom who was an elementary school PTA president. I'm sure that was just a coincidence.

I don't buy your theory (and suggest you retake probability and statistics) but also wonder--why would anyone at HB care whether an applicant's parent was an elementary school PTA president?

[Anonymous]

Ha ha ha. HB doesn't care. It's the ES principal pulling strings for her. Good grief, does anyone buy that no per-selection goes on??

[Anonymous]

I don't agree that your kid is a "classic" for HB. His innate qualities will serve him well at any Arlington high school. I don't see that type of kid as the classic HB type at all. I think the HB model has the most value for the smart underachiever. JMO.

(Again, I feel the need to keep saying my kids don't go to HB.)

Agree with this. I have a friend who teaches at HB. She always tells parents that HB isn't designed for kids who are self-guided. It is designed to help kids *become* self-guided.

Yet it's all of the over-achiever kids applying and getting spots. Please.

My experience, with one exception, as well, and I have now witnessed this as my four DCs' peers entered the lottery. (We did not). The once exception I am very familiar with is a student who, after the lottery, had a note from a psychologist saying attending the student's neighborhood middle school would cause/contribute to the student's mental health issues. I know of one other family in a similar situation who tried to transfer to HB that way and it did not work.