Loaded question: MERLD and autism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ABA principles are applicable to children who are having issues with behavior as well as

"...used around the world to help all kinds of people overcome all kinds of social and behavioral problems such as quitting smoking, addressing personality disorders, relationship counseling, obsessive compulsive disorders, and many other common issues. Behavioral principles only began being used for children with autism in the late 1960’s and 1970’s. Studies are available that support the use of ABA programming with children affected by any number of different disabilities including Downs Syndrome, CP, Emotional Disorders, General Developmental Delay, etc."
http://www.prioritiesaba.com/resources-links/myths-and-misconceptions-about-aba

Or read about how a SLP uses ABA.
http://www.speakforyourself.org/uncategorized/accept-behavior-towards-non-autistic-child/

The same goes for things like the Kazdin Method (developed with kids with ODD) or Social Thinking Curriculum was developed with kids who fall under, "Diagnostic Label
Attention Issues (ADD/ADHD), Anxiety, Asperger's Syndrome, Autism Spectrum Disorders, Language or Learning Disability, Nonverbal Learning Disability, Social Communication Disorder, Traumatic Brain Injury, No Diagnosis, Other..."

I guess people who are using definitions that were made nearly 20 years ago, may not understand what type of therapies are used today.

Children with language issues often struggle with behavior, it's true. But that's because of their LANGUAGE issues. So if you get them into a good speech therapy setting, many of those issues go away.

The problem of pushing ABA is its massive expense which typically is not covered unless you have an autism diagnosis. It's also a huge time sink, and you're treating the symptom instead of the real issue.

We are one of the families who saw the Camaratas. They were able to give us many tips that solved most of our at-home behavior issues. At school, they recommended bringing in a board-certified behaviorist to do a support plan, and that worked right away. But that's different than ABA, which is discrete trial training.

Again, I'm not pushing ABA or any other behavioral intervention. I don't understand why there is such defensiveness on this board. My child diagnosed with MERLD didn't need behavioral supports or behavioral interventions in preschool, his teachers were aware of his diagnosis, and it didn't keep coming up over and over. Mainly b/c his behavior was appropriate despite his delays.

The OP didn't mention trouble at home and assume that the OP's kid is already doing ST. Maybe there is and she didn't mention it. And really ABA or behavioral therapy requires a lot of time, and it depends on what your insurance coverage is if you feel you need to pursue that route. Kids don't need to be on the spectrum to do ABA; likewise kids with autism can do behavioral therapy. The approaches are very similar.

My point (again) is that if the teachers are continuing to bring up autism, there probably is a reason, and it's probably behavior related. They either don't want him at the school, or they don't understand how to deal with him. Either way, it's an obtuse way of going about it. If I were the OP, I would ask for clarification from the teachers and/or have an observation/FBA done to help this kid in his current school. And maybe give some thought as to whether it is the right school fit. Regardless of the cause (whether it's language, communication disorder, ADHD to name only a few), behavioral interventions can help.

Exactly. SOMETHING is causing the teachers and psychologist to suggest that the current diagnosis and services are not adequate. Now, that "something" may be completely off base and incorrect (and the diagnosing may well overstep boundaries). But the smart thing to do is to focus on what they are seeing and observing, and then figure out where to go from there. It may be a different diagnosis, it may be the school environment, it may be bad teachers, it may be a lot of things. But it should not be ignored.

Here's the thing about that: Too often, the school district "fix" is just shoving a MERLD child into an autism based program. They did this with my child after Kindergarten. And, it solved NOTHING. ALL the same problems existed. Now the district was happier, but the autism program had turned into a dumping ground for children with behaviors, no matter the true diagnosis.

Again, it was getting the FBA done with the supports that made the difference.

Parents need to guard against the "school knows best" mentality. They are just doing what's convenient for them.

A kid with MERLD or a kid with ASD are not going to be fixed by the end of Kindergarten. It's not the kind of thing that can be solved rapidly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ABA principles are applicable to children who are having issues with behavior as well as

"...used around the world to help all kinds of people overcome all kinds of social and behavioral problems such as quitting smoking, addressing personality disorders, relationship counseling, obsessive compulsive disorders, and many other common issues. Behavioral principles only began being used for children with autism in the late 1960’s and 1970’s. Studies are available that support the use of ABA programming with children affected by any number of different disabilities including Downs Syndrome, CP, Emotional Disorders, General Developmental Delay, etc."
http://www.prioritiesaba.com/resources-links/myths-and-misconceptions-about-aba

Or read about how a SLP uses ABA.
http://www.speakforyourself.org/uncategorized/accept-behavior-towards-non-autistic-child/

The same goes for things like the Kazdin Method (developed with kids with ODD) or Social Thinking Curriculum was developed with kids who fall under, "Diagnostic Label
Attention Issues (ADD/ADHD), Anxiety, Asperger's Syndrome, Autism Spectrum Disorders, Language or Learning Disability, Nonverbal Learning Disability, Social Communication Disorder, Traumatic Brain Injury, No Diagnosis, Other..."

I guess people who are using definitions that were made nearly 20 years ago, may not understand what type of therapies are used today.

Children with language issues often struggle with behavior, it's true. But that's because of their LANGUAGE issues. So if you get them into a good speech therapy setting, many of those issues go away.

The problem of pushing ABA is its massive expense which typically is not covered unless you have an autism diagnosis. It's also a huge time sink, and you're treating the symptom instead of the real issue.

We are one of the families who saw the Camaratas. They were able to give us many tips that solved most of our at-home behavior issues. At school, they recommended bringing in a board-certified behaviorist to do a support plan, and that worked right away. But that's different than ABA, which is discrete trial training.

Again, I'm not pushing ABA or any other behavioral intervention. I don't understand why there is such defensiveness on this board. My child diagnosed with MERLD didn't need behavioral supports or behavioral interventions in preschool, his teachers were aware of his diagnosis, and it didn't keep coming up over and over. Mainly b/c his behavior was appropriate despite his delays.

The OP didn't mention trouble at home and assume that the OP's kid is already doing ST. Maybe there is and she didn't mention it. And really ABA or behavioral therapy requires a lot of time, and it depends on what your insurance coverage is if you feel you need to pursue that route. Kids don't need to be on the spectrum to do ABA; likewise kids with autism can do behavioral therapy. The approaches are very similar.

My point (again) is that if the teachers are continuing to bring up autism, there probably is a reason, and it's probably behavior related. They either don't want him at the school, or they don't understand how to deal with him. Either way, it's an obtuse way of going about it. If I were the OP, I would ask for clarification from the teachers and/or have an observation/FBA done to help this kid in his current school. And maybe give some thought as to whether it is the right school fit. Regardless of the cause (whether it's language, communication disorder, ADHD to name only a few), behavioral interventions can help.

Exactly. SOMETHING is causing the teachers and psychologist to suggest that the current diagnosis and services are not adequate. Now, that "something" may be completely off base and incorrect (and the diagnosing may well overstep boundaries). But the smart thing to do is to focus on what they are seeing and observing, and then figure out where to go from there. It may be a different diagnosis, it may be the school environment, it may be bad teachers, it may be a lot of things. But it should not be ignored.

Here's the thing about that: Too often, the school district "fix" is just shoving a MERLD child into an autism based program. They did this with my child after Kindergarten. And, it solved NOTHING. ALL the same problems existed. Now the district was happier, but the autism program had turned into a dumping ground for children with behaviors, no matter the true diagnosis.

Again, it was getting the FBA done with the supports that made the difference.

Parents need to guard against the "school knows best" mentality. They are just doing what's convenient for them.

A kid with MERLD or a kid with ASD are not going to be fixed by the end of Kindergarten. It's not the kind of thing that can be solved rapidly.

I think all of us would agree, but that's not how the schools feel. Once you test out to the minimal low average range, they pull/refuse services in that area. Or, at least that is our experience. Some kids with MERLD are ok by K. but the ones more severely impacted usually struggle in K and 1st and then start progressing later on but it also depends on the individual child, their IQ. We are refused services in one area as my child on paper tests out but everyone agrees there are mild lingering issues so they are addressing it under a different category which makes no sense to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

12:09

In my experience, children with receptive language issues really struggle in classrooms and this is made so much worse by districts and teachers who don't want to follow the IEP. Heck, my son's K teacher admitted to me in October of that year that she hadn't even READ my child's IEP-- but that didn't stop her from mounting a campaign to have him labeled with autism and removed from her class.

In OP's case, I agree it's good to go and confront them and try to get to the bottom of what they are thinking. In those early days I tried to hide from them so they couldn't tell me it was autism; in retrospect, I should have been more pro-active and willing to state my case about my son's language issues.

In 5th grade, the social worker for both schools told me the first school had treated us terribly, and that we were right to fight for the language label and inclusion.

An autism label does not mean "no inclusion" either. It depends on the child and the level of support they need. My DS has been labeled under "autism" in his IEP since K and fully mainstreamed with IEP at a dual language charter since preK4. The only time the school wanted to place him in a more restrictive environment (the Ivymount Model Asperger's Program) was in 2nd grade when his behavior at school was so out of control that it was obvious to everyone that the school was a "bad fit" and could not meet DS's needs. Luckily, DS had a full neuropsych eval that found he also had ADHD, combined type, and once that was treated along with a FBA/BIP and recommendations from the neuropsych eval, DS is thriving at his school still fully mainstreamed, still labeled under "Autism" in his IEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ABA principles are applicable to children who are having issues with behavior as well as

"...used around the world to help all kinds of people overcome all kinds of social and behavioral problems such as quitting smoking, addressing personality disorders, relationship counseling, obsessive compulsive disorders, and many other common issues. Behavioral principles only began being used for children with autism in the late 1960’s and 1970’s. Studies are available that support the use of ABA programming with children affected by any number of different disabilities including Downs Syndrome, CP, Emotional Disorders, General Developmental Delay, etc."
http://www.prioritiesaba.com/resources-links/myths-and-misconceptions-about-aba

Or read about how a SLP uses ABA.
http://www.speakforyourself.org/uncategorized/accept-behavior-towards-non-autistic-child/

The same goes for things like the Kazdin Method (developed with kids with ODD) or Social Thinking Curriculum was developed with kids who fall under, "Diagnostic Label
Attention Issues (ADD/ADHD), Anxiety, Asperger's Syndrome, Autism Spectrum Disorders, Language or Learning Disability, Nonverbal Learning Disability, Social Communication Disorder, Traumatic Brain Injury, No Diagnosis, Other..."

I guess people who are using definitions that were made nearly 20 years ago, may not understand what type of therapies are used today.

Children with language issues often struggle with behavior, it's true. But that's because of their LANGUAGE issues. So if you get them into a good speech therapy setting, many of those issues go away.

The problem of pushing ABA is its massive expense which typically is not covered unless you have an autism diagnosis. It's also a huge time sink, and you're treating the symptom instead of the real issue.

We are one of the families who saw the Camaratas. They were able to give us many tips that solved most of our at-home behavior issues. At school, they recommended bringing in a board-certified behaviorist to do a support plan, and that worked right away. But that's different than ABA, which is discrete trial training.

Again, I'm not pushing ABA or any other behavioral intervention. I don't understand why there is such defensiveness on this board. My child diagnosed with MERLD didn't need behavioral supports or behavioral interventions in preschool, his teachers were aware of his diagnosis, and it didn't keep coming up over and over. Mainly b/c his behavior was appropriate despite his delays.

The OP didn't mention trouble at home and assume that the OP's kid is already doing ST. Maybe there is and she didn't mention it. And really ABA or behavioral therapy requires a lot of time, and it depends on what your insurance coverage is if you feel you need to pursue that route. Kids don't need to be on the spectrum to do ABA; likewise kids with autism can do behavioral therapy. The approaches are very similar.

My point (again) is that if the teachers are continuing to bring up autism, there probably is a reason, and it's probably behavior related. They either don't want him at the school, or they don't understand how to deal with him. Either way, it's an obtuse way of going about it. If I were the OP, I would ask for clarification from the teachers and/or have an observation/FBA done to help this kid in his current school. And maybe give some thought as to whether it is the right school fit. Regardless of the cause (whether it's language, communication disorder, ADHD to name only a few), behavioral interventions can help.

Exactly. SOMETHING is causing the teachers and psychologist to suggest that the current diagnosis and services are not adequate. Now, that "something" may be completely off base and incorrect (and the diagnosing may well overstep boundaries). But the smart thing to do is to focus on what they are seeing and observing, and then figure out where to go from there. It may be a different diagnosis, it may be the school environment, it may be bad teachers, it may be a lot of things. But it should not be ignored.

Here's the thing about that: Too often, the school district "fix" is just shoving a MERLD child into an autism based program. They did this with my child after Kindergarten. And, it solved NOTHING. ALL the same problems existed. Now the district was happier, but the autism program had turned into a dumping ground for children with behaviors, no matter the true diagnosis.

Again, it was getting the FBA done with the supports that made the difference.

Parents need to guard against the "school knows best" mentality. They are just doing what's convenient for them.

A kid with MERLD or a kid with ASD are not going to be fixed by the end of Kindergarten. It's not the kind of thing that can be solved rapidly.

Boy, I wish you could see beyond your own story.

In truth, many MERLD kids are "fixed" by the end of kindergarten. Their receptive language kicks in and they are off and running and catch up academically and socially. I know many kids like this.

This was not our case, but the above story is more about just shoving a child into a program that's convenient for the school district. The special ed dept. was truly surprised when my child did not thrive in their autism program. It just wasn't the right fit. So we fought hard for a better fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

12:09

In my experience, children with receptive language issues really struggle in classrooms and this is made so much worse by districts and teachers who don't want to follow the IEP. Heck, my son's K teacher admitted to me in October of that year that she hadn't even READ my child's IEP-- but that didn't stop her from mounting a campaign to have him labeled with autism and removed from her class.

In OP's case, I agree it's good to go and confront them and try to get to the bottom of what they are thinking. In those early days I tried to hide from them so they couldn't tell me it was autism; in retrospect, I should have been more pro-active and willing to state my case about my son's language issues.

In 5th grade, the social worker for both schools told me the first school had treated us terribly, and that we were right to fight for the language label and inclusion.

An autism label does not mean "no inclusion" either. It depends on the child and the level of support they need. My DS has been labeled under "autism" in his IEP since K and fully mainstreamed with IEP at a dual language charter since preK4. The only time the school wanted to place him in a more restrictive environment (the Ivymount Model Asperger's Program) was in 2nd grade when his behavior at school was so out of control that it was obvious to everyone that the school was a "bad fit" and could not meet DS's needs. Luckily, DS had a full neuropsych eval that found he also had ADHD, combined type, and once that was treated along with a FBA/BIP and recommendations from the neuropsych eval, DS is thriving at his school still fully mainstreamed, still labeled under "Autism" in his IEP.

That's YOUR story. I was telling MY story. And the difference is your child is verbal. It's a very different ballgame, and you really should just do everyone a favor and stay out of MERLD threads. It's just not helpful; MERLD and Asperger's are too different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

12:09

In my experience, children with receptive language issues really struggle in classrooms and this is made so much worse by districts and teachers who don't want to follow the IEP. Heck, my son's K teacher admitted to me in October of that year that she hadn't even READ my child's IEP-- but that didn't stop her from mounting a campaign to have him labeled with autism and removed from her class.

In OP's case, I agree it's good to go and confront them and try to get to the bottom of what they are thinking. In those early days I tried to hide from them so they couldn't tell me it was autism; in retrospect, I should have been more pro-active and willing to state my case about my son's language issues.

In 5th grade, the social worker for both schools told me the first school had treated us terribly, and that we were right to fight for the language label and inclusion.

An autism label does not mean "no inclusion" either. It depends on the child and the level of support they need. My DS has been labeled under "autism" in his IEP since K and fully mainstreamed with IEP at a dual language charter since preK4. The only time the school wanted to place him in a more restrictive environment (the Ivymount Model Asperger's Program) was in 2nd grade when his behavior at school was so out of control that it was obvious to everyone that the school was a "bad fit" and could not meet DS's needs. Luckily, DS had a full neuropsych eval that found he also had ADHD, combined type, and once that was treated along with a FBA/BIP and recommendations from the neuropsych eval, DS is thriving at his school still fully mainstreamed, still labeled under "Autism" in his IEP.

That's YOUR story. I was telling MY story. And the difference is your child is verbal. It's a very different ballgame, and you really should just do everyone a favor and stay out of MERLD threads. It's just not helpful; MERLD and Asperger's are too different.

Many kids labeled under "autism" are mainstreamed and in inclusive classrooms.

As for Asperger's, it's all "autism" now. Asperger's doesn't exist under the DSM-5 just like MERLD. And you are not the thread police who decides who gets to post where.

But you are right, a kid who has a MERLD diagnosis would never get an Asperger's diagnosis under the old DSM-4 as they are very different despite another MERLD pp insisting that they refused to get their kid with MERLD evaluated for Asperger's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

12:09

In my experience, children with receptive language issues really struggle in classrooms and this is made so much worse by districts and teachers who don't want to follow the IEP. Heck, my son's K teacher admitted to me in October of that year that she hadn't even READ my child's IEP-- but that didn't stop her from mounting a campaign to have him labeled with autism and removed from her class.

In OP's case, I agree it's good to go and confront them and try to get to the bottom of what they are thinking. In those early days I tried to hide from them so they couldn't tell me it was autism; in retrospect, I should have been more pro-active and willing to state my case about my son's language issues.

In 5th grade, the social worker for both schools told me the first school had treated us terribly, and that we were right to fight for the language label and inclusion.

An autism label does not mean "no inclusion" either. It depends on the child and the level of support they need. My DS has been labeled under "autism" in his IEP since K and fully mainstreamed with IEP at a dual language charter since preK4. The only time the school wanted to place him in a more restrictive environment (the Ivymount Model Asperger's Program) was in 2nd grade when his behavior at school was so out of control that it was obvious to everyone that the school was a "bad fit" and could not meet DS's needs. Luckily, DS had a full neuropsych eval that found he also had ADHD, combined type, and once that was treated along with a FBA/BIP and recommendations from the neuropsych eval, DS is thriving at his school still fully mainstreamed, still labeled under "Autism" in his IEP.

That's YOUR story. I was telling MY story. And the difference is your child is verbal. It's a very different ballgame, and you really should just do everyone a favor and stay out of MERLD threads. It's just not helpful; MERLD and Asperger's are too different.

ALL of these kids are verbal, no? Its a whole nother ball of wax if a child is actually non verbal. These kids all have in common speech issues, be it pragmatic, written expression, reading comp. Communication issues. You are just slicing and dicing here and it does not make a whole lot of sense.

Bottom line - if a kid is having behavioral issues a FBA or equivalent can be very helpful. We do ABA for my child with a receptive "weakness" who has ADHD and some other speech issues. It has been so incredibly helpful. Our ABA therapist also acts as a tutor. I can not say enough about how much it has helped all of us. So, open your mind beyond these narrow little labels a bit.

[Anonymous]

I should probably read this whole thread before weighing in, but I've been reading the whole MERLD vs ASD debate on DCUM for years. MERLD was the first dx my child got. Since then, my child has received a few other medical diagnosese, and has shown irregular eegs. Child still does not have an ASD dx.

In any case, my child's MERLD is not fixed, and he is much more overall impaired than many of his peers with ASD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

12:09

In my experience, children with receptive language issues really struggle in classrooms and this is made so much worse by districts and teachers who don't want to follow the IEP. Heck, my son's K teacher admitted to me in October of that year that she hadn't even READ my child's IEP-- but that didn't stop her from mounting a campaign to have him labeled with autism and removed from her class.

In OP's case, I agree it's good to go and confront them and try to get to the bottom of what they are thinking. In those early days I tried to hide from them so they couldn't tell me it was autism; in retrospect, I should have been more pro-active and willing to state my case about my son's language issues.

In 5th grade, the social worker for both schools told me the first school had treated us terribly, and that we were right to fight for the language label and inclusion.

An autism label does not mean "no inclusion" either. It depends on the child and the level of support they need. My DS has been labeled under "autism" in his IEP since K and fully mainstreamed with IEP at a dual language charter since preK4. The only time the school wanted to place him in a more restrictive environment (the Ivymount Model Asperger's Program) was in 2nd grade when his behavior at school was so out of control that it was obvious to everyone that the school was a "bad fit" and could not meet DS's needs. Luckily, DS had a full neuropsych eval that found he also had ADHD, combined type, and once that was treated along with a FBA/BIP and recommendations from the neuropsych eval, DS is thriving at his school still fully mainstreamed, still labeled under "Autism" in his IEP.

That's YOUR story. I was telling MY story. And the difference is your child is verbal. It's a very different ballgame, and you really should just do everyone a favor and stay out of MERLD threads. It's just not helpful; MERLD and Asperger's are too different.

ALL of these kids are verbal, no? Its a whole nother ball of wax if a child is actually non verbal. These kids all have in common speech issues, be it pragmatic, written expression, reading comp. Communication issues. You are just slicing and dicing here and it does not make a whole lot of sense.

Bottom line - if a kid is having behavioral issues a FBA or equivalent can be very helpful. We do ABA for my child with a receptive "weakness" who has ADHD and some other speech issues. It has been so incredibly helpful. Our ABA therapist also acts as a tutor. I can not say enough about how much it has helped all of us. So, open your mind beyond these narrow little labels a bit.

No. My MERLD child was barely verbal in kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should probably read this whole thread before weighing in, but I've been reading the whole MERLD vs ASD debate on DCUM for years. MERLD was the first dx my child got. Since then, my child has received a few other medical diagnosese, and has shown irregular eegs. Child still does not have an ASD dx.

In any case, my child's MERLD is not fixed, and he is much more overall impaired than many of his peers with ASD.

Are you medicating for seizures? My son that has benign Rolandic epilepsy had a receptive delay at 3 and after we medicated for seizures he tested in normal range at 5. Eeg is still irregular. I know it's controversial whether to medicate without seizures. But it seems to help in some cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I should probably read this whole thread before weighing in, but I've been reading the whole MERLD vs ASD debate on DCUM for years. MERLD was the first dx my child got. Since then, my child has received a few other medical diagnosese, and has shown irregular eegs. Child still does not have an ASD dx.

In any case, my child's MERLD is not fixed, and he is much more overall impaired than many of his peers with ASD.

Its the same discussion over and over again about how every kid has Autism/ADHD and how we are wrong with our kids diagnosis and suggestions. It really varies depending on the child. Mine is far less impacted by his peers with ASD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A kid with MERLD or a kid with ASD are not going to be fixed by the end of Kindergarten. It's not the kind of thing that can be solved rapidly.

Boy, I wish you could see beyond your own story.

In truth, many MERLD kids are "fixed" by the end of kindergarten. Their receptive language kicks in and they are off and running and catch up academically and socially. I know many kids like this.

This was not our case, but the above story is more about just shoving a child into a program that's convenient for the school district. The special ed dept. was truly surprised when my child did not thrive in their autism program. It just wasn't the right fit. So we fought hard for a better fit.

Then it's called a developmental delay and not a language disorder. Take 5 minutes to peruse the ASHA website or any other reliable source of information and you would get this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

12:09

In my experience, children with receptive language issues really struggle in classrooms and this is made so much worse by districts and teachers who don't want to follow the IEP. Heck, my son's K teacher admitted to me in October of that year that she hadn't even READ my child's IEP-- but that didn't stop her from mounting a campaign to have him labeled with autism and removed from her class.

In OP's case, I agree it's good to go and confront them and try to get to the bottom of what they are thinking. In those early days I tried to hide from them so they couldn't tell me it was autism; in retrospect, I should have been more pro-active and willing to state my case about my son's language issues.

In 5th grade, the social worker for both schools told me the first school had treated us terribly, and that we were right to fight for the language label and inclusion.

An autism label does not mean "no inclusion" either. It depends on the child and the level of support they need. My DS has been labeled under "autism" in his IEP since K and fully mainstreamed with IEP at a dual language charter since preK4. The only time the school wanted to place him in a more restrictive environment (the Ivymount Model Asperger's Program) was in 2nd grade when his behavior at school was so out of control that it was obvious to everyone that the school was a "bad fit" and could not meet DS's needs. Luckily, DS had a full neuropsych eval that found he also had ADHD, combined type, and once that was treated along with a FBA/BIP and recommendations from the neuropsych eval, DS is thriving at his school still fully mainstreamed, still labeled under "Autism" in his IEP.

That's YOUR story. I was telling MY story. And the difference is your child is verbal. It's a very different ballgame, and you really should just do everyone a favor and stay out of MERLD threads. It's just not helpful; MERLD and Asperger's are too different.

ALL of these kids are verbal, no? Its a whole nother ball of wax if a child is actually non verbal. These kids all have in common speech issues, be it pragmatic, written expression, reading comp. Communication issues. You are just slicing and dicing here and it does not make a whole lot of sense.

Bottom line - if a kid is having behavioral issues a FBA or equivalent can be very helpful. We do ABA for my child with a receptive "weakness" who has ADHD and some other speech issues. It has been so incredibly helpful. Our ABA therapist also acts as a tutor. I can not say enough about how much it has helped all of us. So, open your mind beyond these narrow little labels a bit.

No. My MERLD child was barely verbal in kindergarten.

My MERLD kid found his voice in K. We went from having comments about being too quiet and to complaints (which were not really complaints as the teachers were glad) that he was being too social and talking too much. He still struggled but it didn't stop him.

For ADHD, ABA can make sense. Not all MERLD kids have ADHD. Agree ABA can act as a tutor and do many other things, but as parents we can also tutor, which we do for free vs. ABA is $150-250 an hour. My kid also doesn't need tutoring. ABA did nothing for my child's receptive language. It came when it came and there was no forcing it or magic therapy that could fix it. Glad if it helps one child but that one size fits all does not work with any of these kids. Our ABA therapist did very basic academics and other stuff. Our SLP does all kinds of other stuff that is far more important and helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A kid with MERLD or a kid with ASD are not going to be fixed by the end of Kindergarten. It's not the kind of thing that can be solved rapidly.

Boy, I wish you could see beyond your own story.

In truth, many MERLD kids are "fixed" by the end of kindergarten. Their receptive language kicks in and they are off and running and catch up academically and socially. I know many kids like this.

This was not our case, but the above story is more about just shoving a child into a program that's convenient for the school district. The special ed dept. was truly surprised when my child did not thrive in their autism program. It just wasn't the right fit. So we fought hard for a better fit.

Then it's called a developmental delay and not a language disorder. Take 5 minutes to peruse the ASHA website or any other reliable source of information and you would get this.

I know very few kids with true MERLD that were cured by K. That's not the truth and not reality at all. Most have mild lingering issues that they learn to cope with and work around. If you followed Dr. Camarata's work rather than quoting random people who suit your arguments, you'd understand MERLD and language disorders. Come 4-5, it is no longer a delay, its a disorder. At 2-3, its a delay. Often MERLD kids are put in special education and assumed they are not bright, when they really are and capable of being in a regular classroom (not our experience but I know many in who have).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ABA principles are applicable to children who are having issues with behavior as well as

"...used around the world to help all kinds of people overcome all kinds of social and behavioral problems such as quitting smoking, addressing personality disorders, relationship counseling, obsessive compulsive disorders, and many other common issues. Behavioral principles only began being used for children with autism in the late 1960’s and 1970’s. Studies are available that support the use of ABA programming with children affected by any number of different disabilities including Downs Syndrome, CP, Emotional Disorders, General Developmental Delay, etc."
http://www.prioritiesaba.com/resources-links/myths-and-misconceptions-about-aba

Or read about how a SLP uses ABA.
http://www.speakforyourself.org/uncategorized/accept-behavior-towards-non-autistic-child/

The same goes for things like the Kazdin Method (developed with kids with ODD) or Social Thinking Curriculum was developed with kids who fall under, "Diagnostic Label
Attention Issues (ADD/ADHD), Anxiety, Asperger's Syndrome, Autism Spectrum Disorders, Language or Learning Disability, Nonverbal Learning Disability, Social Communication Disorder, Traumatic Brain Injury, No Diagnosis, Other..."

I guess people who are using definitions that were made nearly 20 years ago, may not understand what type of therapies are used today.

Children with language issues often struggle with behavior, it's true. But that's because of their LANGUAGE issues. So if you get them into a good speech therapy setting, many of those issues go away.

The problem of pushing ABA is its massive expense which typically is not covered unless you have an autism diagnosis. It's also a huge time sink, and you're treating the symptom instead of the real issue.

We are one of the families who saw the Camaratas. They were able to give us many tips that solved most of our at-home behavior issues. At school, they recommended bringing in a board-certified behaviorist to do a support plan, and that worked right away. But that's different than ABA, which is discrete trial training.

Again, I'm not pushing ABA or any other behavioral intervention. I don't understand why there is such defensiveness on this board. My child diagnosed with MERLD didn't need behavioral supports or behavioral interventions in preschool, his teachers were aware of his diagnosis, and it didn't keep coming up over and over. Mainly b/c his behavior was appropriate despite his delays.

The OP didn't mention trouble at home and assume that the OP's kid is already doing ST. Maybe there is and she didn't mention it. And really ABA or behavioral therapy requires a lot of time, and it depends on what your insurance coverage is if you feel you need to pursue that route. Kids don't need to be on the spectrum to do ABA; likewise kids with autism can do behavioral therapy. The approaches are very similar.

My point (again) is that if the teachers are continuing to bring up autism, there probably is a reason, and it's probably behavior related. They either don't want him at the school, or they don't understand how to deal with him. Either way, it's an obtuse way of going about it. If I were the OP, I would ask for clarification from the teachers and/or have an observation/FBA done to help this kid in his current school. And maybe give some thought as to whether it is the right school fit. Regardless of the cause (whether it's language, communication disorder, ADHD to name only a few), behavioral interventions can help.

Exactly. SOMETHING is causing the teachers and psychologist to suggest that the current diagnosis and services are not adequate. Now, that "something" may be completely off base and incorrect (and the diagnosing may well overstep boundaries). But the smart thing to do is to focus on what they are seeing and observing, and then figure out where to go from there. It may be a different diagnosis, it may be the school environment, it may be bad teachers, it may be a lot of things. But it should not be ignored.

Here's the thing about that: Too often, the school district "fix" is just shoving a MERLD child into an autism based program. They did this with my child after Kindergarten. And, it solved NOTHING. ALL the same problems existed. Now the district was happier, but the autism program had turned into a dumping ground for children with behaviors, no matter the true diagnosis.

Again, it was getting the FBA done with the supports that made the difference.

Parents need to guard against the "school knows best" mentality. They are just doing what's convenient for them.

A kid with MERLD or a kid with ASD are not going to be fixed by the end of Kindergarten. It's not the kind of thing that can be solved rapidly.

Boy, I wish you could see beyond your own story.

In truth, many MERLD kids are "fixed" by the end of kindergarten. Their receptive language kicks in and they are off and running and catch up academically and socially. I know many kids like this.

This was not our case, but the above story is more about just shoving a child into a program that's convenient for the school district. The special ed dept. was truly surprised when my child did not thrive in their autism program. It just wasn't the right fit. So we fought hard for a better fit.

Boy, I wish you would read the research. Kids with MERLD grow into adults with MERLD. They have lingering deficits even as adults. It's not something that you fix in a year, or ever fix completely.