Elementary teacher doesn't know Dickens rote Great Expectations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Miss Havisham, people. Miss Havesham. She makes Great Expectations WORTH reading: best villain ever. She lives in a creepy old mansion alone, wearing the tattered remains of the wedding dress she first put on years and years ago when her fiance stood her up on her wedding day. She had the clocks in her mansion stopped at that time, and has the wedding spread table still set out, moldering under cobwebs. And she's OBSESSED with getting her revenge on men. So obsessed that she takes a little orphan girl and raises her to be a heartbreaking temptress, keeping her isolated in the old moldy mansion so no outside influences will halt the corruption. AND THEN, Miss Havisham invites Pip, the main character, into the creepy old mansion to meet young Estella (the little girl Miss H has warped in the hopes of carrying out her revenge).

Read it, really. So, so good.

I need to read it again. We read it in 9th grade English class in my NY state public high school, right after The Scarlet Letter (ok, so I skipped over the Custom House Sketch ... ). It doesn't bother me that an elementary school teacher would not know this -- maybe she read Billy Budd instead of Great Expectations -- but it would be horrifying if an English teacher wasn't familiar with Great Expectations.

And Miss Havisham was completely creepy! Still can't believe //SPOILER ALERT// that she wasn't Pip's benefactor.

Huh, I read it in 9th grade too, in NY. Are you from Plainview? PP - you made Miss Havisham sound SO much more interesting than my teacher did. Our focus was on Pip, not on her. You've made me want to re-read it now to focus on her.

No, I'm not from Plainview (pretty far away, actually), but I am an English teacher. I'm glad you are intrigued by Miss H., though. Pip is a fairly bland character, I think, and his type appears over and over. Miss Havisham, though, is unique as far as villains go.

There is a very cool contemporary long "short" story called "Miss Havisham Regrets", available on Kindle. It might not be high literature, but it is intriguing, and I have my students look at it as supplementary material. You should read this before reading Great Expectations again!

If you like contemporary historical fiction, there is also a novel told from Miss H.'s point of view (giving her background and what really went wrong). it is by Ronald Frame, and is also available on Kindle. This is a "just for fun" book, not high literature, but it IS fun to delve into the creepiness of Miss H. Some of my students (who like contemporary historical fiction anyway) enjoyed this one a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is common knowledge among educated people who pursue life long learning.

Is it? Is it really? Do you have a list? I would say it is not uncommon knowledge, but I wouldn't say it's that fundamental. I would say most people would know about Dickens as the author of A Christmas Carol, and probably A Tale of Two Cities, but I think that's about as far as "common knowledge" stretches.

We expect teachers to be among this class of people, or at least we used to. So, yes, not a good thing if a fourth grade teacher doesn't know this. It shows that the teacher isn't reading enough outside her teaching to pick this type of knowledge up ambiently.

I agree. It's not uncommon knowledge, but I'm not surprised that a person didn't know it and I don't think any less of the person.

Are we going to include other "common knowledge"? Who lost last year's World Series? In what year was the Ford Mustang introduced? Explain the difference between an extra point and a field goal in football. Where was the first successful, commercial oil well in the US located? I consider all to be common knowledge and equally valuable in a game of trivia, but if somebody (even an elementary school teacher) didn't know the answer, I wouldn't hold it against that person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is common knowledge among educated people who pursue life long learning.

Is it? Is it really? Do you have a list? I would say it is not uncommon knowledge, but I wouldn't say it's that fundamental. I would say most people would know about Dickens as the author of A Christmas Carol, and probably A Tale of Two Cities, but I think that's about as far as "common knowledge" stretches.

We expect teachers to be among this class of people, or at least we used to. So, yes, not a good thing if a fourth grade teacher doesn't know this. It shows that the teacher isn't reading enough outside her teaching to pick this type of knowledge up ambiently.

Are we going to include other "common knowledge"? Who lost last year's World Series? In what year was the Ford Mustang introduced? Explain the difference between an extra point and a field goal in football. Where was the first successful, commercial oil well in the US located? I consider all to be common knowledge and equally valuable in a game of trivia, but if somebody (even an elementary school teacher) didn't know the answer, I wouldn't hold it against that person.

[Anonymous]

Are we going to include other "common knowledge"? Who lost last year's World Series? In what year was the Ford Mustang introduced? Explain the difference between an extra point and a field goal in football. Where was the first successful, commercial oil well in the US located? I consider all to be common knowledge and equally valuable in a game of trivia, but if somebody (even an elementary school teacher) didn't know the answer, I wouldn't hold it against that person.

[Anonymous]

I'm reading Great Expectations now...thanks to this thread.

--English-degreed NP who knew the author of GE but never read the novel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The people boasting about their PhDs and high fallutin' degrees should hang their red faces in shame that they don't know Charles Dickens wrote Great Expectations.

I think we prove the point that it made no difference in our ultimate success.

but, let's assume you are right, that knowing Dickens authored Great Expectations, is essential knowledge.... why would you insult or judge someone for not having read this in high school when his/her high school didn't require/offer it? It's not a personal failure to have gone to a high school where it wasn't part of the curriculum. One can presume that those who graduated with various advanced degrees did, in fact, learn to read and analyze complex material (even if they didn't take a test on Great Expectations).

The judgment being levied by OP and others reflects poverty of character. I'd rather have missed the lesson on Dickens than missed the lesson on consideration and humility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we going to include other "common knowledge"? Who lost last year's World Series? In what year was the Ford Mustang introduced? Explain the difference between an extra point and a field goal in football. Where was the first successful, commercial oil well in the US located? I consider all to be common knowledge and equally valuable in a game of trivia, but if somebody (even an elementary school teacher) didn't know the answer, I wouldn't hold it against that person.

I know all those things plus Great Expectations. Common knowledge among well read/well rounded Americans, yes. But not essential, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people boasting about their PhDs and high fallutin' degrees should hang their red faces in shame that they don't know Charles Dickens wrote Great Expectations.

I think we prove the point that it made no difference in our ultimate success.

but, let's assume you are right, that knowing Dickens authored Great Expectations, is essential knowledge.... why would you insult or judge someone for not having read this in high school when his/her high school didn't require/offer it? It's not a personal failure to have gone to a high school where it wasn't part of the curriculum. One can presume that those who graduated with various advanced degrees did, in fact, learn to read and analyze complex material (even if they didn't take a test on Great Expectations).

The judgment being levied by OP and others reflects poverty of character. I'd rather have missed the lesson on Dickens than missed the lesson on consideration and humility.

He wrote it. And you're boring. Time to shut up.

[Anonymous]

I read Great Expectations in ninth grade. I'm not sure if my English major DD has ever read it. I suspect she knows who wrote it, though. I imagine that in the future, we will have few young people who have even heard of Dickens.

[Anonymous]

Would Donald Trump know this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read Great Expectations in ninth grade. I'm not sure if my English major DD has ever read it. I suspect she knows who wrote it, though. I imagine that in the future, we will have few young people who have even heard of Dickens.

I disagree. Classical literature doesn't drop major authors as time progresses. I read Beowulf in the original Middle English at University and that's far older.

[Anonymous]

Reading that book was torture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read Great Expectations in ninth grade. I'm not sure if my English major DD has ever read it. I suspect she knows who wrote it, though. I imagine that in the future, we will have few young people who have even heard of Dickens.

Then very few young people will be able to get into the head of a Victorian faced with the grimmer effects of the Industrial Revolution. That is very sad. But i don't think it will happen: what an absurd idea.

People who understand why Dickens IS part of the canon are not going to eliminate it. It is "a classic" for good reasons that won't change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people boasting about their PhDs and high fallutin' degrees should hang their red faces in shame that they don't know Charles Dickens wrote Great Expectations.

I think we prove the point that it made no difference in our ultimate success.

but, let's assume you are right, that knowing Dickens authored Great Expectations, is essential knowledge.... why would you insult or judge someone for not having read this in high school when his/her high school didn't require/offer it? It's not a personal failure to have gone to a high school where it wasn't part of the curriculum. One can presume that those who graduated with various advanced degrees did, in fact, learn to read and analyze complex material (even if they didn't take a test on Great Expectations).

The judgment being levied by OP and others reflects poverty of character. I'd rather have missed the lesson on Dickens than missed the lesson on consideration and humility.

He wrote it. And you're boring. Time to shut up.

Oh, you didn't know "author" is also a verb. It would help you to read more, you know. You would sound more sophisticated, and would learn to communicate effectively without resorting to lowbrow taunts.

[Anonymous]

This thread has ballooned all because of a judgmental microscope that was placed on one person's response during a game of trivia.

It makes me wonder why anyone would want to become a teacher.