School Choice => School Chance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The "but I pay taxes!" argument would be more compelling if your taxes only paid for education.

At this point, I'm wondering what my taxes actually DO pay for because the city services are less than ideal. But that's for another thread!

They pay for, among other things, great and improved care for the homeless. Ask the Mayor.

They also pay for hundred-million renovations of failing schools. Ask the Mayor (and previous ones)

And sweetheart deals for your contracting or consulting company, if you gave enough money to Bowser's campaign. There also may be a sweet, highly-paid, do-nothing-to-very-little DC job for you, if you gave enough to The Bowse.

If you guys think that DC is bad, you'd last 10 seconds in CA. Per student school expenditures half the size of DC, rotten test scores, crumbling roads, poor public transit, lines at the DMV that go out the door. The low tax states in the South have even worse outcomes. You get what you pay for.

Nope, the point is that we don't get what we pay for.

Yes, you do. Lower tax jurisdictions have much worse services. Plenty of places like NY and NJ have much higher taxes than DC (2.5% property taxes in NJ), and they don't get free prek for two years.

See, you are contradicting yourself.

BTW, I don't care about other cities, I care about DC. And, as previous PP said, we do NOT get what we pay.

What exactly do you think you're supposed to be getting for your money? PK3 and PK4 at the school of your choice isn't guaranteed. High quality neighborhood schools isn't guaranteed either. I think that money could be used better as well, but the "I pay taxes so I deserve to not be disappointed on Lottery Day" argument smacks of entitlement to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "but I pay taxes!" argument would be more compelling if your taxes only paid for education.

At this point, I'm wondering what my taxes actually DO pay for because the city services are less than ideal. But that's for another thread!

They pay for, among other things, great and improved care for the homeless. Ask the Mayor.

They also pay for hundred-million renovations of failing schools. Ask the Mayor (and previous ones)

And sweetheart deals for your contracting or consulting company, if you gave enough money to Bowser's campaign. There also may be a sweet, highly-paid, do-nothing-to-very-little DC job for you, if you gave enough to The Bowse.

If you guys think that DC is bad, you'd last 10 seconds in CA. Per student school expenditures half the size of DC, rotten test scores, crumbling roads, poor public transit, lines at the DMV that go out the door. The low tax states in the South have even worse outcomes. You get what you pay for.

Nope, the point is that we don't get what we pay for.

Yes, you do. Lower tax jurisdictions have much worse services. Plenty of places like NY and NJ have much higher taxes than DC (2.5% property taxes in NJ), and they don't get free prek for two years.

See, you are contradicting yourself.

BTW, I don't care about other cities, I care about DC. And, as previous PP said, we do NOT get what we pay.

What exactly do you think you're supposed to be getting for your money? PK3 and PK4 at the school of your choice isn't guaranteed. High quality neighborhood schools isn't guaranteed either. I think that money could be used better as well, but the "I pay taxes so I deserve to not be disappointed on Lottery Day" argument smacks of entitlement to me.

Not rocket science, really. I want the real money to go to the good schools, so they can build up capacity to benefit more kids.

Instead, the real money now is being wasted on empty monuments to cronyism and political machinations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "but I pay taxes!" argument would be more compelling if your taxes only paid for education.

At this point, I'm wondering what my taxes actually DO pay for because the city services are less than ideal. But that's for another thread!

They pay for, among other things, great and improved care for the homeless. Ask the Mayor.

They also pay for hundred-million renovations of failing schools. Ask the Mayor (and previous ones)

And sweetheart deals for your contracting or consulting company, if you gave enough money to Bowser's campaign. There also may be a sweet, highly-paid, do-nothing-to-very-little DC job for you, if you gave enough to The Bowse.

If you guys think that DC is bad, you'd last 10 seconds in CA. Per student school expenditures half the size of DC, rotten test scores, crumbling roads, poor public transit, lines at the DMV that go out the door. The low tax states in the South have even worse outcomes. You get what you pay for.

Nope, the point is that we don't get what we pay for.

Yes, you do. Lower tax jurisdictions have much worse services. Plenty of places like NY and NJ have much higher taxes than DC (2.5% property taxes in NJ), and they don't get free prek for two years.

See, you are contradicting yourself.

BTW, I don't care about other cities, I care about DC. And, as previous PP said, we do NOT get what we pay.

What exactly do you think you're supposed to be getting for your money? PK3 and PK4 at the school of your choice isn't guaranteed. High quality neighborhood schools isn't guaranteed either. I think that money could be used better as well, but the "I pay taxes so I deserve to not be disappointed on Lottery Day" argument smacks of entitlement to me.

Not rocket science, really. I want the real money to go to the good schools, so they can build up capacity to benefit more kids.

Instead, the real money now is being wasted on empty monuments to cronyism and political machinations.

Do you live in boundary for the good schools? If so, good news. Your kid can go there for kindergarten. If not, why are you entitled to a seat in someone else's school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the case that most school systems don't have PK3 or PK4? Seems you have to think of it as a luxury or should only be for at risk kids. Tax dollars could be used to fund other parts of education process and those that can make other arrangements.

DC has almost-universal PK3 and PK4 because the DCPS programs (except for in Ward 3) are funded by Head Start dollars. We wouldn't have it if we didn't have so many low-income families.

Sometimes I think they should make pre-K income-based... I probably wouldn't qualify but that just seems more fair.

It's moving that way already. At least a dozen schools serving some of the poorest parts of the city have auto acceptances for all IB PK3 and PK4 students. It's called the early access program http://dcps.dc.gov/page/pre-kindergarten-pk3-and-pk4

And Ward 3 remains bereft of pk3 or any charter schools. Not for lack of demand, either.

Ward 3 schools are already overloaded. If you want them to offer PK3, you have to make the boundaries smaller. That could involve shifting Janney/Murch/Mann households to Hearst, Eaton, or Key to Hyde-Addison. A lot more kids would be IB for SWW@F-S, and some kids would probably have to cross the park. We saw how well suggestions like this went over during the boundary and assignment re-evaluation a few years ago. Most parents in Ward 3, or at least the most outspoken ones, would rather pay for private PK or send their kids to an OOB/charter school for a couple years but then get 6 years at their current IB school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "but I pay taxes!" argument would be more compelling if your taxes only paid for education.

At this point, I'm wondering what my taxes actually DO pay for because the city services are less than ideal. But that's for another thread!

They pay for, among other things, great and improved care for the homeless. Ask the Mayor.

They also pay for hundred-million renovations of failing schools. Ask the Mayor (and previous ones)

And sweetheart deals for your contracting or consulting company, if you gave enough money to Bowser's campaign. There also may be a sweet, highly-paid, do-nothing-to-very-little DC job for you, if you gave enough to The Bowse.

If you guys think that DC is bad, you'd last 10 seconds in CA. Per student school expenditures half the size of DC, rotten test scores, crumbling roads, poor public transit, lines at the DMV that go out the door. The low tax states in the South have even worse outcomes. You get what you pay for.

Nope, the point is that we don't get what we pay for.

Yes, you do. Lower tax jurisdictions have much worse services. Plenty of places like NY and NJ have much higher taxes than DC (2.5% property taxes in NJ), and they don't get free prek for two years.

See, you are contradicting yourself.

BTW, I don't care about other cities, I care about DC. And, as previous PP said, we do NOT get what we pay.

What exactly do you think you're supposed to be getting for your money? PK3 and PK4 at the school of your choice isn't guaranteed. High quality neighborhood schools isn't guaranteed either. I think that money could be used better as well, but the "I pay taxes so I deserve to not be disappointed on Lottery Day" argument smacks of entitlement to me.

Not rocket science, really. I want the real money to go to the good schools, so they can build up capacity to benefit more kids.

Instead, the real money now is being wasted on empty monuments to cronyism and political machinations.

Let's be frank here. If the "good schools" were suddenly expanded to accommodate tons of additional students from all over the city, they would no longer be considered "good schools" by people like you.

Start judging schools by how well they actually improve the individuals that attend there and you'll see that there are many more good schools. But you have to get past stereotypes and prejudice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "but I pay taxes!" argument would be more compelling if your taxes only paid for education.

At this point, I'm wondering what my taxes actually DO pay for because the city services are less than ideal. But that's for another thread!

They pay for, among other things, great and improved care for the homeless. Ask the Mayor.

They also pay for hundred-million renovations of failing schools. Ask the Mayor (and previous ones)

And sweetheart deals for your contracting or consulting company, if you gave enough money to Bowser's campaign. There also may be a sweet, highly-paid, do-nothing-to-very-little DC job for you, if you gave enough to The Bowse.

If you guys think that DC is bad, you'd last 10 seconds in CA. Per student school expenditures half the size of DC, rotten test scores, crumbling roads, poor public transit, lines at the DMV that go out the door. The low tax states in the South have even worse outcomes. You get what you pay for.

Nope, the point is that we don't get what we pay for.

Yes, you do. Lower tax jurisdictions have much worse services. Plenty of places like NY and NJ have much higher taxes than DC (2.5% property taxes in NJ), and they don't get free prek for two years.

See, you are contradicting yourself.

BTW, I don't care about other cities, I care about DC. And, as previous PP said, we do NOT get what we pay.

What exactly do you think you're supposed to be getting for your money? PK3 and PK4 at the school of your choice isn't guaranteed. High quality neighborhood schools isn't guaranteed either. I think that money could be used better as well, but the "I pay taxes so I deserve to not be disappointed on Lottery Day" argument smacks of entitlement to me.

Not rocket science, really. I want the real money to go to the good schools, so they can build up capacity to benefit more kids.

Instead, the real money now is being wasted on empty monuments to cronyism and political machinations.

Do you live in boundary for the good schools? If so, good news. Your kid can go there for kindergarten. If not, why are you entitled to a seat in someone else's school?

Someone else's school - LOL. They're all DC schools, lady.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "but I pay taxes!" argument would be more compelling if your taxes only paid for education.

At this point, I'm wondering what my taxes actually DO pay for because the city services are less than ideal. But that's for another thread!

They pay for, among other things, great and improved care for the homeless. Ask the Mayor.

They also pay for hundred-million renovations of failing schools. Ask the Mayor (and previous ones)

And sweetheart deals for your contracting or consulting company, if you gave enough money to Bowser's campaign. There also may be a sweet, highly-paid, do-nothing-to-very-little DC job for you, if you gave enough to The Bowse.

If you guys think that DC is bad, you'd last 10 seconds in CA. Per student school expenditures half the size of DC, rotten test scores, crumbling roads, poor public transit, lines at the DMV that go out the door. The low tax states in the South have even worse outcomes. You get what you pay for.

Nope, the point is that we don't get what we pay for.

Yes, you do. Lower tax jurisdictions have much worse services. Plenty of places like NY and NJ have much higher taxes than DC (2.5% property taxes in NJ), and they don't get free prek for two years.

See, you are contradicting yourself.

BTW, I don't care about other cities, I care about DC. And, as previous PP said, we do NOT get what we pay.

What exactly do you think you're supposed to be getting for your money? PK3 and PK4 at the school of your choice isn't guaranteed. High quality neighborhood schools isn't guaranteed either. I think that money could be used better as well, but the "I pay taxes so I deserve to not be disappointed on Lottery Day" argument smacks of entitlement to me.

Not rocket science, really. I want the real money to go to the good schools, so they can build up capacity to benefit more kids.

Instead, the real money now is being wasted on empty monuments to cronyism and political machinations.

Do you live in boundary for the good schools? If so, good news. Your kid can go there for kindergarten. If not, why are you entitled to a seat in someone else's school?

Someone else's school - LOL. They're all DC schools, lady.

You're not wrong, but in DC, schools are assigned by address. If you're not living at an address that is assigned to that school, it's not your school. You have a school assigned to your address.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all have a choice: move out of DC if you want better schools as part of your "right" without having to lottery for a charter!!

Not really. The suburban schools suck, too...unless you want to pay exorbitant prices to live in Potomac proper, Bethesda, or McLean, among very few others. The rule is that wealthy and/or highly educated families create the best local schools -- hasn't this always been the case?

this is patently ridiculous. there are huge swaths of Fairfax County and MoCo where the schools are solid-to-excellent, and the home prices are on par with a cookie-cutter rowhouse in Petworth or Eckington or Trinidad. But you would never be caught dead in Rockville or Fairfax City.

this is why a lot of us roll our eyes at the annual whining on this match day. The whiners almost always have choices, they just don't like them.

OK, sure, you could move out to Herndon or Gaithersburg, I suppose, but are those really suburbs? The "quality" schools closer to DC that exist in lower-rent neighborhoods are in a constant state of flux and are unreliable, due to the more affordable housing that exists in those places. For example, the Rockville schools are not all that great anymore...unless you're living in a $600,000+ house neighborhood. As I stated earlier, the rule has always been wealth and/or education, nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been waitlisted for everything for three years in a row. Here's what I think: this is a taste of what poorer people experience ALL THE TIME. You watch other people's kids go to a fancier, nicer, wonderful school that you could have gone to....if not for the fact that you lost the lottery, the lottery being who gets born rich or poor. It seems so unfair. It is unfair. This is how other people -- most of the people around the world -- live all the time.

This might be one of the most insightful things I've EVER read on this site.

^^^

this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been waitlisted for everything for three years in a row. Here's what I think: this is a taste of what poorer people experience ALL THE TIME. You watch other people's kids go to a fancier, nicer, wonderful school that you could have gone to....if not for the fact that you lost the lottery, the lottery being who gets born rich or poor. It seems so unfair. It is unfair. This is how other people -- most of the people around the world -- live all the time.

This is a really true statement. We feel very fortunate that we are in an amazing private program and don't have to feel devastated that we have been shut out two years in a row. And that we have the option to move to a great school district in MD or VA.

But... not everyone has those options.

THANK YOU op for this profound and beautiful statement!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a part of me that finds the whole process really unjust, especially for something as important as a child's education. It's left completely to chance. We didn't get shut out completely -- got into our IB school -- but it wasn't one of our top choices because it isn't a viable long term option. So my choices now are either to play this totally random lottery again next year and hope my kid gets lucky, pay for private school, or move. It sucks.

Or go to your neighborhood school. Interesting how you don't list that as a choice.

I found that interesting too - go and make it better!

I'm the PP who said that the process seems unjust. Apparently neither of you PPs bothered to actually read my post. I DID list my IB school, it just wasn't a top choice. We are matched with our IB school and that's the school we will be attending. Parents have been working hard to improve our IB school for at least the last EIGHT years now. These schools don't turn around overnight, or in our case, almost a decade. But thanks for your advice!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the case that most school systems don't have PK3 or PK4? Seems you have to think of it as a luxury or should only be for at risk kids. Tax dollars could be used to fund other parts of education process and those that can make other arrangements.

DC has almost-universal PK3 and PK4 because the DCPS programs (except for in Ward 3) are funded by Head Start dollars. We wouldn't have it if we didn't have so many low-income families.

Sometimes I think they should make pre-K income-based... I probably wouldn't qualify but that just seems more fair.

It's moving that way already. At least a dozen schools serving some of the poorest parts of the city have auto acceptances for all IB PK3 and PK4 students. It's called the early access program http://dcps.dc.gov/page/pre-kindergarten-pk3-and-pk4

And Ward 3 remains bereft of pk3 or any charter schools. Not for lack of demand, either.

Ward 3 schools are already overloaded. If you want them to offer PK3, you have to make the boundaries smaller. That could involve shifting Janney/Murch/Mann households to Hearst, Eaton, or Key to Hyde-Addison. A lot more kids would be IB for SWW@F-S, and some kids would probably have to cross the park. We saw how well suggestions like this went over during the boundary and assignment re-evaluation a few years ago. Most parents in Ward 3, or at least the most outspoken ones, would rather pay for private PK or send their kids to an OOB/charter school for a couple years but then get 6 years at their current IB school.

Even if this were true about DCPS, it doesn't justify the lack of accessible charter options in Ward 3. You could totally install an Appletree (or similar pk-only) charter in the old St. Ann's school. If that's not enough space, let it open branches in the vacant office building on MacArthur by the reservoir, or the old Hardy building that DCPS keeps trying to stealth-lease for life to a private school, or even partner with/sublease space from AU (the old law school building perhaps?) to establish the kind of "university lab school"/education research center that has been discussed on DCUM before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Even if this were true about DCPS, it doesn't justify the lack of accessible charter options in Ward 3. You could totally install an Appletree (or similar pk-only) charter in the old St. Ann's school. If that's not enough space, let it open branches in the vacant office building on MacArthur by the reservoir, or the old Hardy building that DCPS keeps trying to stealth-lease for life to a private school, or even partner with/sublease space from AU (the old law school building perhaps?) to establish the kind of "university lab school"/education research center that has been discussed on DCUM before.

PP - if you think Ward 3 needs a charter you should found one. Start by signing up for the DCPCSB listserv http://www.dcpcsb.org/report/start-charter-school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the case that most school systems don't have PK3 or PK4? Seems you have to think of it as a luxury or should only be for at risk kids. Tax dollars could be used to fund other parts of education process and those that can make other arrangements.

DC has almost-universal PK3 and PK4 because the DCPS programs (except for in Ward 3) are funded by Head Start dollars. We wouldn't have it if we didn't have so many low-income families.

Sometimes I think they should make pre-K income-based... I probably wouldn't qualify but that just seems more fair.

It's moving that way already. At least a dozen schools serving some of the poorest parts of the city have auto acceptances for all IB PK3 and PK4 students. It's called the early access program http://dcps.dc.gov/page/pre-kindergarten-pk3-and-pk4

And Ward 3 remains bereft of pk3 or any charter schools. Not for lack of demand, either.

Ward 3 schools are already overloaded. If you want them to offer PK3, you have to make the boundaries smaller. That could involve shifting Janney/Murch/Mann households to Hearst, Eaton, or Key to Hyde-Addison. A lot more kids would be IB for SWW@F-S, and some kids would probably have to cross the park. We saw how well suggestions like this went over during the boundary and assignment re-evaluation a few years ago. Most parents in Ward 3, or at least the most outspoken ones, would rather pay for private PK or send their kids to an OOB/charter school for a couple years but then get 6 years at their current IB school.

Even if this were true about DCPS, it doesn't justify the lack of accessible charter options in Ward 3. You could totally install an Appletree (or similar pk-only) charter in the old St. Ann's school. If that's not enough space, let it open branches in the vacant office building on MacArthur by the reservoir, or the old Hardy building that DCPS keeps trying to stealth-lease for life to a private school, or even partner with/sublease space from AU (the old law school building perhaps?) to establish the kind of "university lab school"/education research center that has been discussed on DCUM before.

My god, posts like the above that just assume it is so easy for someone else to do this kind of work are the worst.

There is no need to "justify" the lack of charter options in any location. Schools find the space that work for them. Period.

And I love that some rando had the batshit theory that colleges should open high schools and now you're citing that as something that just should automatically be happening.

This is "why don't they make the whole plane out of the black box" level thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all have a choice: move out of DC if you want better schools as part of your "right" without having to lottery for a charter!!

Not really. The suburban schools suck, too...unless you want to pay exorbitant prices to live in Potomac proper, Bethesda, or McLean, among very few others. The rule is that wealthy and/or highly educated families create the best local schools -- hasn't this always been the case?

+1. The real question is why don't the complainers earn more money so that they can move to the better districts? Most people on DCUM claim to have HHIs over 500k+, so why are they playing the lottery in the first place?