School Choice => School Chance

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the case that most school systems don't have PK3 or PK4? Seems you have to think of it as a luxury or should only be for at risk kids. Tax dollars could be used to fund other parts of education process and those that can make other arrangements.

DC has almost-universal PK3 and PK4 because the DCPS programs (except for in Ward 3) are funded by Head Start dollars. We wouldn't have it if we didn't have so many low-income families.

Sometimes I think they should make pre-K income-based... I probably wouldn't qualify but that just seems more fair.

It's moving that way already. At least a dozen schools serving some of the poorest parts of the city have auto acceptances for all IB PK3 and PK4 students. It's called the early access program http://dcps.dc.gov/page/pre-kindergarten-pk3-and-pk4

And Ward 3 remains bereft of pk3 or any charter schools. Not for lack of demand, either.

Ward 3 schools are already overloaded. If you want them to offer PK3, you have to make the boundaries smaller. That could involve shifting Janney/Murch/Mann households to Hearst, Eaton, or Key to Hyde-Addison. A lot more kids would be IB for SWW@F-S, and some kids would probably have to cross the park. We saw how well suggestions like this went over during the boundary and assignment re-evaluation a few years ago. Most parents in Ward 3, or at least the most outspoken ones, would rather pay for private PK or send their kids to an OOB/charter school for a couple years but then get 6 years at their current IB school.

Even if this were true about DCPS, it doesn't justify the lack of accessible charter options in Ward 3. You could totally install an Appletree (or similar pk-only) charter in the old St. Ann's school. If that's not enough space, let it open branches in the vacant office building on MacArthur by the reservoir, or the old Hardy building that DCPS keeps trying to stealth-lease for life to a private school, or even partner with/sublease space from AU (the old law school building perhaps?) to establish the kind of "university lab school"/education research center that has been discussed on DCUM before.

Most charters are started by corporations like KIPP, where no Ward 3 parent would send a child, or groups of parents and educators like those at Mundo Verde who spent years of legwork setting it up. No one owes you a charter in your neighborhood. That's the point: they are grass roots efforts.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You all have a choice: move out of DC if you want better schools as part of your "right" without having to lottery for a charter!!

Not really. The suburban schools suck, too...unless you want to pay exorbitant prices to live in Potomac proper, Bethesda, or McLean, among very few others. The rule is that wealthy and/or highly educated families create the best local schools -- hasn't this always been the case?

+1. The real question is why don't the complainers earn more money so that they can move to the better districts? Most people on DCUM claim to have HHIs over 500k+, so why are they playing the lottery in the first place?

There is some truth to this. While the schools in Rockville (for example, among other mid-priced 'burbs) aren't great, they ARE better by quite a large margin than 75% of the schools in D.C. Anyone with a house worth from $450-500K in DC could find a livable home somewhere in most of Rockville, if they so chose. But the D.C. complainers have historically refused to shop that way. Just keep complaining, is all I see around here, rather than making a decision to get a better school with their feet.

[Anonymous]

this is patently ridiculous. there are huge swaths of Fairfax County and MoCo where the schools are solid-to-excellent, and the home prices are on par with a cookie-cutter rowhouse in Petworth or Eckington or Trinidad. But you would never be caught dead in Rockville or Fairfax City.

this is why a lot of us roll our eyes at the annual whining on this match day. The whiners almost always have choices, they just don't like them.

OK, sure, you could move out to Herndon or Gaithersburg, I suppose, but are those really suburbs? The "quality" schools closer to DC that exist in lower-rent neighborhoods are in a constant state of flux and are unreliable, due to the more affordable housing that exists in those places. For example, the Rockville schools are not all that great anymore...unless you're living in a $600,000+ house neighborhood. As I stated earlier, the rule has always been wealth and/or education, nothing else.

I'll repeat slowly for you: Rockville. Fairfax City. You do not have to go as far as Herdon and Gaithersburg to find a solid-to-excellent school AND the house that costs exactly as much as the house currently owned [u]by the whiners in Petworth, Eckington, Trinidad.

Look, I know and you know that there are some lowish/moderate-income renters who got shut out today from free pk3 and 4 within a 10 minute stroll of their apartment. For them, yeah, moving to Langley Park Md. or Germantown (same as their current DC rental) isn't an improvement.

But let's be frank here. Those aren't the loudest and most vociferous whiners, certainly not on DCUM in the middle of a work day. No, we all know it's the 34-yr-old married couple who gambled and bought a home in __________ (fill in the blank up-and-coming neighborhood) with fingers crossed that the free preschool thing would work itself out.

It's these people ^ who are the insufferable ones when they whine. Not the rare DCUMer who really does squeeze the family of 4 into a $1080 a month 2-bedroom in Deadwood. She's the one w/o options, agreed, but she's rarely on these threads and you know it.

[Anonymous]

* Deanwood

[Anonymous]

@17:51: what you're saying here applies to practically everyone who lives in D.C. who isn't low income. It's low income that are screwed permanently. But aside from them, there are affordable rents and homes all around VA and MD. I'll quibble with you on how "solid" most of those schools are, but they are clearly better than the patently hellish quality of schools that exist in the District.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the case that most school systems don't have PK3 or PK4? Seems you have to think of it as a luxury or should only be for at risk kids. Tax dollars could be used to fund other parts of education process and those that can make other arrangements.

DC has almost-universal PK3 and PK4 because the DCPS programs (except for in Ward 3) are funded by Head Start dollars. We wouldn't have it if we didn't have so many low-income families.

Sometimes I think they should make pre-K income-based... I probably wouldn't qualify but that just seems more fair.

It's moving that way already. At least a dozen schools serving some of the poorest parts of the city have auto acceptances for all IB PK3 and PK4 students. It's called the early access program http://dcps.dc.gov/page/pre-kindergarten-pk3-and-pk4

And Ward 3 remains bereft of pk3 or any charter schools. Not for lack of demand, either.

Ward 3 schools are already overloaded. If you want them to offer PK3, you have to make the boundaries smaller. That could involve shifting Janney/Murch/Mann households to Hearst, Eaton, or Key to Hyde-Addison. A lot more kids would be IB for SWW@F-S, and some kids would probably have to cross the park. We saw how well suggestions like this went over during the boundary and assignment re-evaluation a few years ago. Most parents in Ward 3, or at least the most outspoken ones, would rather pay for private PK or send their kids to an OOB/charter school for a couple years but then get 6 years at their current IB school.

Even if this were true about DCPS, it doesn't justify the lack of accessible charter options in Ward 3. You could totally install an Appletree (or similar pk-only) charter in the old St. Ann's school. If that's not enough space, let it open branches in the vacant office building on MacArthur by the reservoir, or the old Hardy building that DCPS keeps trying to stealth-lease for life to a private school, or even partner with/sublease space from AU (the old law school building perhaps?) to establish the kind of "university lab school"/education research center that has been discussed on DCUM before.

Most charters are started by corporations like KIPP, where no Ward 3 parent would send a child, or groups of parents and educators like those at Mundo Verde who spent years of legwork setting it up. No one owes you a charter in your neighborhood. That's the point: they are grass roots efforts.

Like when the Ward 3 families went to Michelle Rhee and Mary Cheh lo those many years ago, asking for a reboot of Hardy Middle School? Yeah, that grassroots effort went over like a lead balloon.

No one owes anyone a charter in any neighborhood, and yet they manage to open all over town...except for one place. Where you'll find a healthy contingent of Montessori supporters, pro-immersion multilingual families, fifth and eighth graders hankering for special-focus options close to home, and three-year-olds in search of a place that would offer them the kind of programming that their families are willing to pursue across the park. But whatever; Ward 3 people can have whatever you want, as long as you pay for it.

[Anonymous]

You could do what many people who care about high quality education do for their kids. Sacrifice. Move to an apartment in Ward 3 (sacrificing space), move to an apartment or small townhome in a good district in MoCo (sacrificing space), move to a less expensive neighborhood in DC (saving $) and pay for private, change jobs to something that is higher paying (sacrificing happiness), dedicate yourself to turning around your crappy IB school (sacrificing time, unclear on education could be fine).

Space vs. location and education. Fulfilling work vs. space and education. Time vs. money.

Life is full of trade offs. Figure out what is important to you and focus on that and sacrifice elsewhere. This is how life works.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You all have a choice: move out of DC if you want better schools as part of your "right" without having to lottery for a charter!!

Not really. The suburban schools suck, too...unless you want to pay exorbitant prices to live in Potomac proper, Bethesda, or McLean, among very few others. The rule is that wealthy and/or highly educated families create the best local schools -- hasn't this always been the case?

this is patently ridiculous. there are huge swaths of Fairfax County and MoCo where the schools are solid-to-excellent, and the home prices are on par with a cookie-cutter rowhouse in Petworth or Eckington or Trinidad. But you would never be caught dead in Rockville or Fairfax City.

this is why a lot of us roll our eyes at the annual whining on this match day. The whiners almost always have choices, they just don't like them.

OK, sure, you could move out to Herndon or Gaithersburg, I suppose, but are those really suburbs? The "quality" schools closer to DC that exist in lower-rent neighborhoods are in a constant state of flux and are unreliable, due to the more affordable housing that exists in those places. For example, the Rockville schools are not all that great anymore...unless you're living in a $600,000+ house neighborhood. As I stated earlier, the rule has always been wealth and/or education, nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the case that most school systems don't have PK3 or PK4? Seems you have to think of it as a luxury or should only be for at risk kids. Tax dollars could be used to fund other parts of education process and those that can make other arrangements.

DC has almost-universal PK3 and PK4 because the DCPS programs (except for in Ward 3) are funded by Head Start dollars. We wouldn't have it if we didn't have so many low-income families.

Sometimes I think they should make pre-K income-based... I probably wouldn't qualify but that just seems more fair.

It's moving that way already. At least a dozen schools serving some of the poorest parts of the city have auto acceptances for all IB PK3 and PK4 students. It's called the early access program http://dcps.dc.gov/page/pre-kindergarten-pk3-and-pk4

And Ward 3 remains bereft of pk3 or any charter schools. Not for lack of demand, either.

Ward 3 schools are already overloaded. If you want them to offer PK3, you have to make the boundaries smaller. That could involve shifting Janney/Murch/Mann households to Hearst, Eaton, or Key to Hyde-Addison. A lot more kids would be IB for SWW@F-S, and some kids would probably have to cross the park. We saw how well suggestions like this went over during the boundary and assignment re-evaluation a few years ago. Most parents in Ward 3, or at least the most outspoken ones, would rather pay for private PK or send their kids to an OOB/charter school for a couple years but then get 6 years at their current IB school.

Even if this were true about DCPS, it doesn't justify the lack of accessible charter options in Ward 3. You could totally install an Appletree (or similar pk-only) charter in the old St. Ann's school. If that's not enough space, let it open branches in the vacant office building on MacArthur by the reservoir, or the old Hardy building that DCPS keeps trying to stealth-lease for life to a private school, or even partner with/sublease space from AU (the old law school building perhaps?) to establish the kind of "university lab school"/education research center that has been discussed on DCUM before.

Most charters are started by corporations like KIPP, where no Ward 3 parent would send a child, or groups of parents and educators like those at Mundo Verde who spent years of legwork setting it up. No one owes you a charter in your neighborhood. That's the point: they are grass roots efforts.

Like when the Ward 3 families went to Michelle Rhee and Mary Cheh lo those many years ago, asking for a reboot of Hardy Middle School? Yeah, that grassroots effort went over like a lead balloon.

No one owes anyone a charter in any neighborhood, and yet they manage to open all over town...except for one place. Where you'll find a healthy contingent of Montessori supporters, pro-immersion multilingual families, fifth and eighth graders hankering for special-focus options close to home, and three-year-olds in search of a place that would offer them the kind of programming that their families are willing to pursue across the park. But whatever; Ward 3 people can have whatever you want, as long as you pay for it.

Must be a conspiracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the case that most school systems don't have PK3 or PK4? Seems you have to think of it as a luxury or should only be for at risk kids. Tax dollars could be used to fund other parts of education process and those that can make other arrangements.

DC has almost-universal PK3 and PK4 because the DCPS programs (except for in Ward 3) are funded by Head Start dollars. We wouldn't have it if we didn't have so many low-income families.

Sometimes I think they should make pre-K income-based... I probably wouldn't qualify but that just seems more fair.

It's moving that way already. At least a dozen schools serving some of the poorest parts of the city have auto acceptances for all IB PK3 and PK4 students. It's called the early access program http://dcps.dc.gov/page/pre-kindergarten-pk3-and-pk4

And Ward 3 remains bereft of pk3 or any charter schools. Not for lack of demand, either.

Ward 3 schools are already overloaded. If you want them to offer PK3, you have to make the boundaries smaller. That could involve shifting Janney/Murch/Mann households to Hearst, Eaton, or Key to Hyde-Addison. A lot more kids would be IB for SWW@F-S, and some kids would probably have to cross the park. We saw how well suggestions like this went over during the boundary and assignment re-evaluation a few years ago. Most parents in Ward 3, or at least the most outspoken ones, would rather pay for private PK or send their kids to an OOB/charter school for a couple years but then get 6 years at their current IB school.

Even if this were true about DCPS, it doesn't justify the lack of accessible charter options in Ward 3. You could totally install an Appletree (or similar pk-only) charter in the old St. Ann's school. If that's not enough space, let it open branches in the vacant office building on MacArthur by the reservoir, or the old Hardy building that DCPS keeps trying to stealth-lease for life to a private school, or even partner with/sublease space from AU (the old law school building perhaps?) to establish the kind of "university lab school"/education research center that has been discussed on DCUM before.

Most charters are started by corporations like KIPP, where no Ward 3 parent would send a child, or groups of parents and educators like those at Mundo Verde who spent years of legwork setting it up. No one owes you a charter in your neighborhood. That's the point: they are grass roots efforts.

Like when the Ward 3 families went to Michelle Rhee and Mary Cheh lo those many years ago, asking for a reboot of Hardy Middle School? Yeah, that grassroots effort went over like a lead balloon.

No one owes anyone a charter in any neighborhood, and yet they manage to open all over town...except for one place. Where you'll find a healthy contingent of Montessori supporters, pro-immersion multilingual families, fifth and eighth graders hankering for special-focus options close to home, and three-year-olds in search of a place that would offer them the kind of programming that their families are willing to pursue across the park. But whatever; Ward 3 people can have whatever you want, as long as you pay for it.

Real estate in Ward 3 is pretty expensive, which may be why no charter tries to set up there.

PP, have you tried to set up a charter in Ward 3 and been denied by the PCSB? The point people are making is that a Board has to form, they have to hire a director, who has to hire the teachers, find a space, hire administrative staff, arrange for supports for kids with LDs etc.are you doing that, PP, because it isn't someone else's job to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been waitlisted for everything for three years in a row. Here's what I think: this is a taste of what poorer people experience ALL THE TIME. You watch other people's kids go to a fancier, nicer, wonderful school that you could have gone to....if not for the fact that you lost the lottery, the lottery being who gets born rich or poor. It seems so unfair. It is unfair. This is how other people -- most of the people around the world -- live all the time.

Good point. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Isn't it the case that most school systems don't have PK3 or PK4? Seems you have to think of it as a luxury or should only be for at risk kids. Tax dollars could be used to fund other parts of education process and those that can make other arrangements.

DC has almost-universal PK3 and PK4 because the DCPS programs (except for in Ward 3) are funded by Head Start dollars. We wouldn't have it if we didn't have so many low-income families.

Sometimes I think they should make pre-K income-based... I probably wouldn't qualify but that just seems more fair.

If they did that the schools
Would turn to shit, again. Free preschool is the gateway that gets high SES families into them at all and every ear more and more stay which eventually turns the school around in 10 years or so.

The only school I know where this is actually true is Brent. All the JKLM schools were already good years ago. In all other cases, high SES families stay for free preK and then move to the burbs, or to NW.

Add to Brent - Ross, Stoddert, Eaton, Hearst, Shepherd as schools that have come along in the last 10 years with greater IB participation. Possibly Marie Reed, Bancroft, SWWFS heading that direction...at least that's my view of NW.

Eaton & Hearst have always been OOB havens. It's a blip that they've got IB students now, but the recent data shows a decline in school age children WOTP. All of JKLM are destined to become OOB havens once again as the current crop of students move to MS and HS. The old families won't move, and new young families can't afford to move in.

Ross will always be a boutique school. There just isn't the housing stock for growing families to live IB and stay there long term. Find me a house full of higher SES middle schoolers in the Ross catchment area.

Stoddert is similar to Eaton and Hearst.

Marie Reed and Bancroft will always have low income housing in their catchment areas. That will always affect the desirability quotient.

[Anonymous]

20 years ago no one was going to SWS at Peabody. A group of Capitol Hill families decided to try it. Then each year more kids went. For a while it evolved into a very segregated program (mostly white IB) as compared to the "regular" Peabody program downstairs. Then, more IB families started enrolling downstairs. Now both programs are among the most popular in the city. Was it a leap of faith as one of those early families? Yes. Did it all work out fine for my kids? Yes. We stayed in the cluster the whole way. They are both now at Walls and thriving.

If people of higher SES and educational levels would commit to their neighborhood schools and STAY, they will improve. It takes a critical mass. But it can happen. Look at Brent, Maury, and now hopefully LT. But so many people here don't even set foot in a school before they deem it unworthy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: Totally disheartened by a system that gives you the impression of great choices but then dangles them in front of you like candy you can never reach.

This is not how charters are supposed to work, is it? Why can't they expand to absorb the crazy demand?

Sorry, but you sound like a two-year-old

Agree but then again this is Wound Licking Day for many, so I get the knee-jerk "it's not fair" responses.

NP. I get the disappointment, but saying "it's not fair" is still petulant because it usually (especially today) means that someone else got something that you wanted or felt you deserved. Everyone is paying the taxes, and someone always gets in. Be as disappointed as you gotta be, but lose the entitlement. Your kid doesn't deserve that 1 PK3 seat any more than the kid who got it.

Well... it is inherently unfair. We're all paying taxes and only some of us are getting free pre-k.

Everyone in DC could have free PreK if they want it. If you don't want the school, that's your problem but every year there are Dcps schools that have open spots.

why do you keep posting this. Nobody is going to say commute from Petworth to Capitol Heights for an open spot.

Then they need to own that. There are seats available. Stop saying you were "shut out" and "have no options." There are options, but you don't want to take them.

Do you even live in DC? Saying "there are seats available!" is so absurd when you're talking about someone living far away and trying to commute to a school across the entire city. It's like telling someone in west Texas to stop complaining about the lack of abortion clinics because there are clinics available in East Texas. It's just not realistic.

Are you one of the bitter ones who complain about all of the Ward 5, 7, and 8 kids who haul all the way across town and take up the seats at your coveted charter or preferred OOB? They do it en masse. You are willing most likely to do a wonky, hard commute for a preferred charter I guess because of the long-term value, just like them. If you don't want to for the short term to get free, high quality PK3 and PK4 (which is very good across the board in DCPS and DCPCS), well okay but that is a choice. Own it.

[Anonymous]

After being wait listed at our IB, we got off the wait list and went to a HRCS ... And added two hours to our daily commute. Stress because of that- but loved the environment, diversity and community.

Left for an immersion program after winning the lottery in year 3 for a HRCS- but ultimately felt like we lost when the teacher and administration proved lacking in experience and lest I say, empathy. (At least beyond platitudes.)

Solution? Uprooted and moved - in DC- for a proven dual language program.

Takes time- but only thru contrasting different experiences could we evaluate and grasp the real trade offs of school choice.

PP reflection about life, luck really resonates.

[Anonymous]

I get that post-lottery whinging sounds a bit . . . entitled, but I'm pretty sure that in fact every child should be entitled to a quality public education. And some people's inbounds schools are not in fact a quality public education. So, whine away. Just don't do it only because your kid is entitled to a better education than those kids.

(fwiw, my 3yo is waitlisted everywhere except my inbounds, but I'm perfectly happy to be there through elementary; not sure about later.)