New Budget Recommendations -- eliminate AAP busing and centers

[Anonymous]

OK so if I understand correctly there is no Level IV except at centers, which happen to have GenEd kids as well. When there's space, then I guess the centers sometimes round out the Level IV aka AAP classes with Level III kids.

-- Parent of 2nd grader

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK so if I understand correctly there is no Level IV except at centers, which happen to have GenEd kids as well. When there's space, then I guess the centers sometimes round out the Level IV aka AAP classes with Level III kids.

-- Parent of 2nd grader

There's level IV both at centers and at base schools. It's the same curriculum. The idea behind the centers was to provide a larger peer group to AAP kids who would have been few in numbers at their base school. This works well when you have a handful of kids who qualify for AAP at the base schools--they actually get enough of them to form one classroom or more at a center.

In practice it has two perverse effects when the qualifying cohort is larger:

1. If the base school has enough AAP kids to form a classroom absent the center, the fact that kids leave for the center hollows out that group and forces the principal to try to fill the class with kids who didn't formally qualify. That sends some parents into a tizzy and generates the idiotic presumption that the center is somehow better. In truth, AAP is such a broad program and the admissions process is so subjective that there are lots of kids in GenEd who can do the work.

2. Some centers get hopelessly overcrowded with AAP kids. People are fond of throwing around the word "critical mass" as if having tons of AAP kids in one place somehow raises their collective intelligence. What it does result in is lots of kids in trailers, AAP classes over 30 like my kids' in the last two years, and cut-throat competition for academic after-school activities (Science Olympiad, Mathcounts, Quiz Bowl, etc.) and lots of kids who are left out of them due to limited numbers of spaces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK so if I understand correctly there is no Level IV except at centers, which happen to have GenEd kids as well. When there's space, then I guess the centers sometimes round out the Level IV aka AAP classes with Level III kids.

-- Parent of 2nd grader

Nope. Centers can only put LLIV qualified kids in the classes FT. There are supposed to be enough kids that they can make class size work. I think some will bring Level IIIS kids in only for the subject(s) they qualify In (usually math only push in).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK my husband says his understanding is that if they do away with AAP centers, there will be no Level IV anywhere. I'm lost.

Your husband is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK so if I understand correctly there is no Level IV except at centers, which happen to have GenEd kids as well. When there's space, then I guess the centers sometimes round out the Level IV aka AAP classes with Level III kids.

-- Parent of 2nd grader

There's level IV both at centers and at base schools. It's the same curriculum. The idea behind the centers was to provide a larger peer group to AAP kids who would have been few in numbers at their base school. This works well when you have a handful of kids who qualify for AAP at the base schools--they actually get enough of them to form one classroom or more at a center.

In practice it has two perverse effects when the qualifying cohort is larger:

1. If the base school has enough AAP kids to form a classroom absent the center, the fact that kids leave for the center hollows out that group and forces the principal to try to fill the class with kids who didn't formally qualify. That sends some parents into a tizzy and generates the idiotic presumption that the center is somehow better. In truth, AAP is such a broad program and the admissions process is so subjective that there are lots of kids in GenEd who can do the work.

2. Some centers get hopelessly overcrowded with AAP kids. People are fond of throwing around the word "critical mass" as if having tons of AAP kids in one place somehow raises their collective intelligence. What it does result in is lots of kids in trailers, AAP classes over 30 like my kids' in the last two years, and cut-throat competition for academic after-school activities (Science Olympiad, Mathcounts, Quiz Bowl, etc.) and lots of kids who are left out of them due to limited numbers of spaces.

Thanks

[Anonymous]

How many schools do not have Level IV now? Herndon Elementary does not. Would it then have a LIV?

It does have 2-way Spanish immersion though for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK my husband says his understanding is that if they do away with AAP centers, there will be no Level IV anywhere. I'm lost.

Your husband is wrong.

I think people get confused and think that only centers are Level IV and anything at the base school is level III, which is not the case. The local level IV curriculum is supposed to be of the same caliber as the center program. If it's different, it's an implementation issue rather than an issue of having a different curriculum because they are different levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK my husband says his understanding is that if they do away with AAP centers, there will be no Level IV anywhere. I'm lost.

Your husband is wrong.

I think people get confused and think that only centers are Level IV and anything at the base school is level III, which is not the case. The local level IV curriculum is supposed to be of the same caliber as the center program. If it's different, it's an implementation issue rather than an issue of having a different curriculum because they are different levels.

The intended curriculum at LLIV is the same as the Level IV Center. The peer groups are different.

[Anonymous]

All of the schools surrounding our center will need to be redistricted if fcps eliminates the center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK my husband says his understanding is that if they do away with AAP centers, there will be no Level IV anywhere. I'm lost.

Your husband is wrong.

I think people get confused and think that only centers are Level IV and anything at the base school is level III, which is not the case. The local level IV curriculum is supposed to be of the same caliber as the center program. If it's different, it's an implementation issue rather than an issue of having a different curriculum because they are different levels.

The intended curriculum at LLIV is the same as the Level IV Center. The peer groups are different.

The peer group was the original, and still most important, part of Level IV. The curriculum is a nice bonus, although many people have gotten too focused on the curriculum. So Local Level IV just isn't the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK my husband says his understanding is that if they do away with AAP centers, there will be no Level IV anywhere. I'm lost.

Your husband is wrong.

I think people get confused and think that only centers are Level IV and anything at the base school is level III, which is not the case. The local level IV curriculum is supposed to be of the same caliber as the center program. If it's different, it's an implementation issue rather than an issue of having a different curriculum because they are different levels.

The intended curriculum at LLIV is the same as the Level IV Center. The peer groups are different.

The peer group was the original, and still most important, part of Level IV. The curriculum is a nice bonus, although many people have gotten too focused on the curriculum. So Local Level IV just isn't the same.

The kids in local level IV are determined with the same standards. The committee has no clue who will opt for the center and who will stay at the local level IV. I'm not sure why the peer group would be so different in schools that can fill classes locally without having to include level III kids. I think things will be fine if centers are eliminated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK my husband says his understanding is that if they do away with AAP centers, there will be no Level IV anywhere. I'm lost.

Your husband is wrong.

I think people get confused and think that only centers are Level IV and anything at the base school is level III, which is not the case. The local level IV curriculum is supposed to be of the same caliber as the center program. If it's different, it's an implementation issue rather than an issue of having a different curriculum because they are different levels.

The intended curriculum at LLIV is the same as the Level IV Center. The peer groups are different.

The peer group was the original, and still most important, part of Level IV. The curriculum is a nice bonus, although many people have gotten too focused on the curriculum. So Local Level IV just isn't the same.

The kids in local level IV are determined with the same standards. The committee has no clue who will opt for the center and who will stay at the local level IV. I'm not sure why the peer group would be so different in schools that can fill classes locally without having to include level III kids. I think things will be fine if centers are eliminated.

And if a school has, say 90-110 kids per class, how many schools can fill a whole class (say 28 kids) with level IV kids only? Because you better be sure that GE parents are going to pitch a fit if the AAP class has 14 kids, while the GE classes have 30 (and they should). I'm sure a few in high achieving affluent school can qualify more than 25% of their kids, but I'd be shocked if more than 20% of the schools (say McLean, Vienne/Oakton, Herndon-- basically the Lonfellow, Thoreau, Carson zones) can really fill a class. Remember, unlike a MS or HS, an ES does not have 800 kids/grade to pull from.

[Anonymous]

It's the peer group example that makes center schools both good and bad. At the local center school, the GE and AAP are mixed for all specials, lunch, recess, field trips, math, and special projects. They are only separate for social studies, language arts, and science. For language arts, they are divided by ability groups. For LA and SS, the only difference in the curriculm is the occasional special project - about one per quarter. All the teachers in a grade frequently team teacher, with each teacher responsible for a section of material within a unit. Does being in a separate class half the day really add that much?

With all the mixing and the same curriculum, I don't understand how AAP could be so important, from a peer group perspective. Is it really worth all the resources FCPS is spending to divide kids into groups and then have them regrouped throughout the day?

What about the Level III students who need an academic peer group in only one subject? Many of these students are outperforming the Level IV AAP students in their particular area. Taking the peer group out of the base schools really hurts those students. And why do Level IV students need a peer group when they perform academically the same, or worse, as the high performing GE? It appears they have an academic peer group within the GE population.

I just don't see

[Anonymous]

The kids in local level IV are determined with the same standards. The committee has no clue who will opt for the center and who will stay at the local level IV. I'm not sure why the peer group would be so different in schools that can fill classes locally without having to include level III kids. I think things will be fine if centers are eliminated in my neighborhood.

Fixed that for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The kids in local level IV are determined with the same standards. The committee has no clue who will opt for the center and who will stay at the local level IV. I'm not sure why the peer group would be so different in schools that can fill classes locally without having to include level III kids. I think things will be fine if centers are eliminated in my neighborhood.

Fixed that for you.

+1

1. About a third of Center schools have some feeder schools where the number of Level IV-eligible students could go back to the base school and have "enough" (critical mass) kids to have a strong Local Level IV program without negatively affecting the Center school's program by dropping the # of kids to below critical mass.
2. About a third of Center schools have no feeder schools even close to having enough Level-IV eligible students to do what is done in #1.
3. The remaining Center schools are somewhere between these two extremes.