South Arlington and North Arlington Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, it looks like the W-L PTA raised $20K and spent $23K on programs for its kids in 2013-14. http://www.apsva.us/cms/lib2/VA01000586/Centricity/Domain/2422/Treasurer.s%20Report%20%2004.7.14.pdf

Yorktown's PTA raised $37K and spent $37K in the same period. http://www.yhspta.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Yorktown-High-School-PTA-budget-2013-2014-revsd-8-25.pdf

PTAs are not irrelevant at the high school level -- they raise money that is used on scholarships and teacher project donations. Yorktown gets more monetary support from its PTA, probably because its kids have higher SES. So I think it's important for high SES parents zoned for W-L not to be frightened away by talk like other posters on this board, because W-L needs those folks to stay. And they should -- as the test and college admissions results show, their kids do great at W-L.

Was there really ever any reason to think that higher-income white parents at W-L were going to exit stage left unless you go out of your way to stigmatize Yorktown as lacking in diversity? It seems over-the-top to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, it looks like the W-L PTA raised $20K and spent $23K on programs for its kids in 2013-14. http://www.apsva.us/cms/lib2/VA01000586/Centricity/Domain/2422/Treasurer.s%20Report%20%2004.7.14.pdf

Yorktown's PTA raised $37K and spent $37K in the same period. http://www.yhspta.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Yorktown-High-School-PTA-budget-2013-2014-revsd-8-25.pdf

PTAs are not irrelevant at the high school level -- they raise money that is used on scholarships and teacher project donations. Yorktown gets more monetary support from its PTA, probably because its kids have higher SES. So I think it's important for high SES parents zoned for W-L not to be frightened away by talk like other posters on this board, because W-L needs those folks to stay. And they should -- as the test and college admissions results show, their kids do great at W-L.

Was there really ever any reason to think that higher-income white parents at W-L were going to exit stage left unless you go out of your way to stigmatize Yorktown as lacking in diversity? It seems over-the-top to me.

Np here- but where does he above post talk about diversity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually white kids at Washington-Lee HAVE achieved higher SAT scores than white kids at Yorktown for the last four years in a row. Three and four years ago it wasn't by that much, but for the last two years it's been a difference of over thirty points. (It was 60 points in 2014.)

I can't speak to the college question except that I saw somewhere on this board that more W-L than Yorktown kids got admitted to ivies either this year or last.

The greatest inference to be drawn here is that there are some white parents at W-L who could not give a hoot about the sub-par performance of non-white students at W-L compared to Yorktown. That is a shame, since there are a whole lot more of them at W-L at Yorktown.

Of course I care about the performance of all the kids at the school. But I'm a white parent who is zoned for W-L who is trying to fight back against the perception that the school is underperforming compared to Yorktown scores. The FARM kids at W-L will not have a better experience if all the rich (probably white) kids get scared of the test scores and move somewhere else and their PTA and other volunteer contributions vanish. The reality is that if you are white your kid will likely achieve better results at W-L than at Yorktown (as the test scores indicate), while at the same time keeping your kid at W-L despite its higher FARMs rate than Yorktown helps the FARMs kids if you support the school with $ or volunteerism. In that way it's a bit like ATS except without the lottery. So, win-win.

There are twice as many white kids taking the SAT at Yorktown than there are at WL. And WL has a magnet program that attracts white kids. These two facts alone account for the slight discrepency between reported SAT scores for white kids in both schools. It has nothing to do with WL offering a superior education. You know zero about statistics.


And you know nothing about logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, it looks like the W-L PTA raised $20K and spent $23K on programs for its kids in 2013-14. http://www.apsva.us/cms/lib2/VA01000586/Centricity/Domain/2422/Treasurer.s%20Report%20%2004.7.14.pdf

Yorktown's PTA raised $37K and spent $37K in the same period. http://www.yhspta.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Yorktown-High-School-PTA-budget-2013-2014-revsd-8-25.pdf

PTAs are not irrelevant at the high school level -- they raise money that is used on scholarships and teacher project donations. Yorktown gets more monetary support from its PTA, probably because its kids have higher SES. So I think it's important for high SES parents zoned for W-L not to be frightened away by talk like other posters on this board, because W-L needs those folks to stay. And they should -- as the test and college admissions results show, their kids do great at W-L.

Was there really ever any reason to think that higher-income white parents at W-L were going to exit stage left unless you go out of your way to stigmatize Yorktown as lacking in diversity? It seems over-the-top to me.

I think you are missing that there are several different posters arguing in support of W-L in this thread. I haven't been trying to stigmatize Yorktown, just arguing that high SES (and likely often white) kids at W-L do very well, and in fact arguably better then the white kids at Yorktown. I'm not trying to frighten people away from Yorktown at all -- it's a great school! But there's no reason for high-SES parents to be afraid of W-L (and if you have read past threads, you would know that Yorktown boosters do exactly that, often in a very ugly way). Their kids will do great at W-L!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually white kids at Washington-Lee HAVE achieved higher SAT scores than white kids at Yorktown for the last four years in a row. Three and four years ago it wasn't by that much, but for the last two years it's been a difference of over thirty points. (It was 60 points in 2014.)

I can't speak to the college question except that I saw somewhere on this board that more W-L than Yorktown kids got admitted to ivies either this year or last.

The greatest inference to be drawn here is that there are some white parents at W-L who could not give a hoot about the sub-par performance of non-white students at W-L compared to Yorktown. That is a shame, since there are a whole lot more of them at W-L at Yorktown.

Of course I care about the performance of all the kids at the school. But I'm a white parent who is zoned for W-L who is trying to fight back against the perception that the school is underperforming compared to Yorktown scores. The FARM kids at W-L will not have a better experience if all the rich (probably white) kids get scared of the test scores and move somewhere else and their PTA and other volunteer contributions vanish. The reality is that if you are white your kid will likely achieve better results at W-L than at Yorktown (as the test scores indicate), while at the same time keeping your kid at W-L despite its higher FARMs rate than Yorktown helps the FARMs kids if you support the school with $ or volunteerism. In that way it's a bit like ATS except without the lottery. So, win-win.

There are twice as many white kids taking the SAT at Yorktown than there are at WL. And WL has a magnet program that attracts white kids. These two facts alone account for the slight discrepency between reported SAT scores for white kids in both schools. It has nothing to do with WL offering a superior education. You know zero about statistics.

And you know nothing about logic.
There is no reason why SAT scores for white students at Yorktown should decline in proportion to the number of white students at the school. On the other hand, if W-L gets white students who take the initiative to transfer there for IB, that should be expected to have a positive impact on the scores there, and it does. Had those students stayed at Yorktown, they likely would have performed just as well on their SATs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually white kids at Washington-Lee HAVE achieved higher SAT scores than white kids at Yorktown for the last four years in a row. Three and four years ago it wasn't by that much, but for the last two years it's been a difference of over thirty points. (It was 60 points in 2014.)

I can't speak to the college question except that I saw somewhere on this board that more W-L than Yorktown kids got admitted to ivies either this year or last.

The greatest inference to be drawn here is that there are some white parents at W-L who could not give a hoot about the sub-par performance of non-white students at W-L compared to Yorktown. That is a shame, since there are a whole lot more of them at W-L at Yorktown.

Of course I care about the performance of all the kids at the school. But I'm a white parent who is zoned for W-L who is trying to fight back against the perception that the school is underperforming compared to Yorktown scores. The FARM kids at W-L will not have a better experience if all the rich (probably white) kids get scared of the test scores and move somewhere else and their PTA and other volunteer contributions vanish. The reality is that if you are white your kid will likely achieve better results at W-L than at Yorktown (as the test scores indicate), while at the same time keeping your kid at W-L despite its higher FARMs rate than Yorktown helps the FARMs kids if you support the school with $ or volunteerism. In that way it's a bit like ATS except without the lottery. So, win-win.

There are twice as many white kids taking the SAT at Yorktown than there are at WL. And WL has a magnet program that attracts white kids. These two facts alone account for the slight discrepency between reported SAT scores for white kids in both schools. It has nothing to do with WL offering a superior education. You know zero about statistics.

And you know nothing about logic.

There is no reason why SAT scores for white students at Yorktown should decline in proportion to the number of white students at the school. On the other hand, if W-L gets white students who take the initiative to transfer there for IB, that should be expected to have a positive impact on the scores there, and it does. Had those students stayed at Yorktown, they likely would have performed just as well on their SATs.

My point was, talented students transfer to W-L for the superior education. What do you think a magnet program is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually white kids at Washington-Lee HAVE achieved higher SAT scores than white kids at Yorktown for the last four years in a row. Three and four years ago it wasn't by that much, but for the last two years it's been a difference of over thirty points. (It was 60 points in 2014.)

I can't speak to the college question except that I saw somewhere on this board that more W-L than Yorktown kids got admitted to ivies either this year or last.

The greatest inference to be drawn here is that there are some white parents at W-L who could not give a hoot about the sub-par performance of non-white students at W-L compared to Yorktown. That is a shame, since there are a whole lot more of them at W-L at Yorktown.

Of course I care about the performance of all the kids at the school. But I'm a white parent who is zoned for W-L who is trying to fight back against the perception that the school is underperforming compared to Yorktown scores. The FARM kids at W-L will not have a better experience if all the rich (probably white) kids get scared of the test scores and move somewhere else and their PTA and other volunteer contributions vanish. The reality is that if you are white your kid will likely achieve better results at W-L than at Yorktown (as the test scores indicate), while at the same time keeping your kid at W-L despite its higher FARMs rate than Yorktown helps the FARMs kids if you support the school with $ or volunteerism. In that way it's a bit like ATS except without the lottery. So, win-win.

There are twice as many white kids taking the SAT at Yorktown than there are at WL. And WL has a magnet program that attracts white kids. These two facts alone account for the slight discrepency between reported SAT scores for white kids in both schools. It has nothing to do with WL offering a superior education. You know zero about statistics.

And you know nothing about logic.

There is no reason why SAT scores for white students at Yorktown should decline in proportion to the number of white students at the school. On the other hand, if W-L gets white students who take the initiative to transfer there for IB, that should be expected to have a positive impact on the scores there, and it does. Had those students stayed at Yorktown, they likely would have performed just as well on their SATs.

My point was, talented students transfer to W-L for the superior education. What do you think a magnet program is?
If that's your point, it's laughable. No one thinks of W-L as a magnet school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually white kids at Washington-Lee HAVE achieved higher SAT scores than white kids at Yorktown for the last four years in a row. Three and four years ago it wasn't by that much, but for the last two years it's been a difference of over thirty points. (It was 60 points in 2014.)

I can't speak to the college question except that I saw somewhere on this board that more W-L than Yorktown kids got admitted to ivies either this year or last.

The greatest inference to be drawn here is that there are some white parents at W-L who could not give a hoot about the sub-par performance of non-white students at W-L compared to Yorktown. That is a shame, since there are a whole lot more of them at W-L at Yorktown.

Of course I care about the performance of all the kids at the school. But I'm a white parent who is zoned for W-L who is trying to fight back against the perception that the school is underperforming compared to Yorktown scores. The FARM kids at W-L will not have a better experience if all the rich (probably white) kids get scared of the test scores and move somewhere else and their PTA and other volunteer contributions vanish. The reality is that if you are white your kid will likely achieve better results at W-L than at Yorktown (as the test scores indicate), while at the same time keeping your kid at W-L despite its higher FARMs rate than Yorktown helps the FARMs kids if you support the school with $ or volunteerism. In that way it's a bit like ATS except without the lottery. So, win-win.

There are twice as many white kids taking the SAT at Yorktown than there are at WL. And WL has a magnet program that attracts white kids. These two facts alone account for the slight discrepency between reported SAT scores for white kids in both schools. It has nothing to do with WL offering a superior education. You know zero about statistics.

And you know nothing about logic.

There is no reason why SAT scores for white students at Yorktown should decline in proportion to the number of white students at the school. On the other hand, if W-L gets white students who take the initiative to transfer there for IB, that should be expected to have a positive impact on the scores there, and it does. Had those students stayed at Yorktown, they likely would have performed just as well on their SATs.

My point was, talented students transfer to W-L for the superior education. What do you think a magnet program is?

Not necessarily "superior." Just a program that attracts certain kinds of students. Yorktown's AP program is every bit as rigorous as WL's IB program.

[Anonymous]

PP talking about the STEM high school. I am basing it on the repeated comments from members of the school board and individuals who are in the process of planning the high school and not wanting to put a new south arlington elementary school there because they want it for a new STEM high school that will give first dibs to WL to relieve overcrowding. It is going to be the new 4th high school for arlington county, to relieve over crowding. At no point in time have these people said it would be a technical school. The staff that plan schools are already on it. I hope it is hogwash because for a county that just simply needs another high school I think a specialized school like that is a terrible idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Pretty much. It's embarrassing. Check out some of the threads where people ask about Lake Braddock, West Springfield, or Robinson in FFX county. All three have healthy rivalries. Yet if a poster asks about buying into a certain pryamid you see responses like this:

" we chose X school, but have friends at Y that really love it!"

" you can't go wrong with any of them. Decide if you prefer IB or AP. Aside from that - all great schools"

" we liked the band dept at Z but think we would have been pleased at Y as well"


Etc etc etc....


We look like such assholes.

That's because the three Fairfax schools you mentioned all have similar demographics. The posts generally are similarly "nice" where, say, Langley and McLean, or Madison and Oakton, are concerned. People at one school won't say something negative about the other school because it would be tantamount to self-criticism. The dynamic changes where schools have significantly different demographic profiles, as at Yorktown and W-L. It makes the people in Arlington look like the biggest a-holes because no two high schools in APS are alike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue isn't having FARMs kids in school. The issue is when, as in several s arlington schools, the student population is overwhelming FARMs kids. Barcroft, randolf and carlin springs are 70% or more FARMs. And, they will get much higher in the next 20 years because the county plans to add thousands of more buildings to house Families whose kids qualifiy form free lunch. Abingdon is going to be up there too within the next several years because of new buildings already about to break ground. No new elementary school in s arlington is going to change that, no new boundaries can change it. The school board does not care and neither does the county board.

So, OP, since you are even considering n arlington and purchasing a home, I can assume you are too affluent for your kid to qualify for free lunch. Do you want your kid going to a school where 7-9 out of even 10 kids come from poor families? Do you think your child is gifted? If not, there is a very real possibility that your kid will be mostly ignored by the teacher. Are you willing to work hard in the PTA because there will be few involved parents, little PTA money and the "extras" that do not happen in these schools with poorer parents who work too many jobs to be involved? Sad to say, but reality.

It will certainly not be a bad education, but it will not be the excellent education people like to talk about in arlington. people in the better performing schools are getting much more for their respective tax dollars than those of us in the south.

I bought in s arlington not really understanding what it means to send a kid to a poor school. My house was cheaper than an equivalent home in n arlington. But, within 10 years it will be worth less because of the massive affordable housing plans in my neighborhood. I was unaware of that when I bought. So, if the equity in your home is the only asset you will have, like me, be VERY weary of s arlington, particularly anywhere near the western areas of columbia pike. Chances are I will have little equity in 20 years to pass along to pay for my kid's college. I hate to say this because I want families to buy here for my own property values, but I don't wish this on another unsuspecting family.
Signed, a south Arlington parent

I participated in the Yorktown/W-L bickering, but personally I think that the above comment was the best in the thread in terms of answering OP's question. You will get more house in the South, but the schools are qualitatively different. Maybe the County will work to remedy that in the coming years, but given the way they keep jamming low cost housing into the South, that seems unlikely.

[Anonymous]

Pretty much. It's embarrassing. Check out some of the threads where people ask about Lake Braddock, West Springfield, or Robinson in FFX county. All three have healthy rivalries. Yet if a poster asks about buying into a certain pryamid you see responses like this:

" we chose X school, but have friends at Y that really love it!"

" you can't go wrong with any of them. Decide if you prefer IB or AP. Aside from that - all great schools"

" we liked the band dept at Z but think we would have been pleased at Y as well"


Etc etc etc....


We look like such assholes.

That's because the three Fairfax schools you mentioned all have similar demographics. The posts generally are similarly "nice" where, say, Langley and McLean, or Madison and Oakton, are concerned. People at one school won't say something negative about the other school because it would be tantamount to self-criticism.

The dynamic changes where schools have significantly different demographic profiles, as at Yorktown and W-L. It makes the people in Arlington look like the biggest a-holes because no two high schools in APS are alike.

Heh heh. Both schools are in N. Arlington, and are the only two high schools in North Arlington. Their profiles are much more similar than, say, either one is to Wakefield.
Sorry, PP, but you N. Arlington types are going to have to suck it up. You look like a-holes because you ARE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP talking about the STEM high school. I am basing it on the repeated comments from members of the school board and individuals who are in the process of planning the high school and not wanting to put a new south arlington elementary school there because they want it for a new STEM high school that will give first dibs to WL to relieve overcrowding. It is going to be the new 4th high school for arlington county, to relieve over crowding. At no point in time have these people said it would be a technical school. The staff that plan schools are already on it. I hope it is hogwash because for a county that just simply needs another high school I think a specialized school like that is a terrible idea.

New poster here, but I've heard this STEM idea since that location was picked. The PPs are not making this up. I hope as well, that they are wrong, but it's an easy way for them to not re-draw boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP talking about the STEM high school. I am basing it on the repeated comments from members of the school board and individuals who are in the process of planning the high school and not wanting to put a new south arlington elementary school there because they want it for a new STEM high school that will give first dibs to WL to relieve overcrowding. It is going to be the new 4th high school for arlington county, to relieve over crowding. At no point in time have these people said it would be a technical school. The staff that plan schools are already on it. I hope it is hogwash because for a county that just simply needs another high school I think a specialized school like that is a terrible idea.

New poster here, but I've heard this STEM idea since that location was picked. The PPs are not making this up. I hope as well, that they are wrong, but it's an easy way for them to not re-draw boundaries.

I'm sure it's posted up thread, but what site are we talking about again? Not the TJ site right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP talking about the STEM high school. I am basing it on the repeated comments from members of the school board and individuals who are in the process of planning the high school and not wanting to put a new south arlington elementary school there because they want it for a new STEM high school that will give first dibs to WL to relieve overcrowding. It is going to be the new 4th high school for arlington county, to relieve over crowding. At no point in time have these people said it would be a technical school. The staff that plan schools are already on it. I hope it is hogwash because for a county that just simply needs another high school I think a specialized school like that is a terrible idea.

New poster here, but I've heard this STEM idea since that location was picked. The PPs are not making this up. I hope as well, that they are wrong, but it's an easy way for them to not re-draw boundaries.

They have already started presenting on the model and have a principal. They will start recruiting their first freshman class next year from among the eighth graders and will add a class each year until they have 900 students. It is not going to be like TJ. It's more like technical classes (robotics etc) for kids who are on the college prep track.