Thomas Jefferson Test

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate your thoughts; however, spending 20 hours a week over two weeks reviewing math concepts that will likely be on the test is not FORCING anything. FWIW, DC wants only to go to Oakton, yet because of unparalleled aptitude to comprehend and put into practice we thought it worth our time and money to have DC take the class. DC will apply, will most likely get accepted, and will more than likely choose to go to Oakton. However, in the off chance, less than 1%, that DC changes mind, it will be an option. I am always amazed by parents who are not vested in their DC efucation. I also plan to pay thousands for SAT prep. Call me crazy!!

things may turn out different than you think. It is always a surprise who get accepted and who does not. And once accepted, most go.

+1000 If your DC is accepted, the strong urge will be to go. BTDT. I would have rather he did not ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would it not be better to have your child take the test without preparation to ensure that they will be successful at TJ? I have a 7th grader who
Will probably have a chance at admission and I've been thinking IF she does well on her own without prep she would do better without being so stressed if she gets in.thoughts? I want her to be happy and successful in high school and at this point I'm no sure where she should be

I teach high school math and think you are approaching this perfectly.

I'm a bragging parent of a TJ student and I agree. You are taking exactly the right approach.
I just answered on the other thread and noted that my child never prepped. He does well at TJ without being up studying till 2 or 3 in the morning and needs no outside tutoring. He participates in a sport for 15+ hours every week, so doesn't get home till about 6:45 every night. If a kid needs to prep to get in, the schedule there will be difficult for that child to keep up with.

Looks like your TJ kid is not taking 4 to 6 APs/Post-APs that the top TJ kids typically take in sophomore (4) to junior (6) years.

Many TJ students do that, but they work very hard to achieve it. "sailing through TJ with no homework" is a unicorn -- everyone has heard of one, but no one can name one.
OP TJ is a grind -- it is for students who really like to work hard. Just getting by at TJ with barely a B average is fairly rare and those student usually drop. there are a few, but they are usually under quite a lot of pressure from their parents. The TJ entrance test is not that hard -- 50% of students qualify after taking the test. But of those 0nly 25% approx. are accepted. If your DC does not like to do academic homework, TJ may not be the best fit.
--- signed TJ mom senior year

Most TJ parents know that the child's success is directly related to how much time and effort they put in. But then there are a few bragging parents, who get a kick out of bluffing.

[Anonymous]

Why does it bother people to know that kids have different levels of abilities? Everyone is different. Some people just understand new information more quickly and retain it more easily than others. Those are the kids who have the time for many hours of outside of school activities.

Some people can study something for an hour and have it down cold, while others can study for hours and hours and still not truly get a concept. The kid who can learn a new concept in an hour has more time for other things. We're all humans and we're all different. We can't assume that every kid is the same and needs the same amount of time and effort to learn.

[Anonymous]

It seems like a waste of money to spend "thousands" on SAT prep for a child with "unparalleled aptitude".

[Anonymous]

tests like SAT and ACT have little to do with aptitude. Just for kicks i took the reading section and got almost half wrong. I then looked at some tips and tricks and got the general theme of how the tests are structured. It was a lot easier from then on.
Even Michael Phelps has a coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would it not be better to have your child take the test without preparation to ensure that they will be successful at TJ? I have a 7th grader who
Will probably have a chance at admission and I've been thinking IF she does well on her own without prep she would do better without being so stressed if she gets in.thoughts? I want her to be happy and successful in high school and at this point I'm no sure where she should be

I teach high school math and think you are approaching this perfectly.

I'm a parent of a TJ student and I agree. You are taking exactly the right approach.
I just answered on the other thread and noted that my child never prepped. He does well at TJ without being up studying till 2 or 3 in the morning and needs no outside tutoring. He participates in a sport for 15+ hours every week, so doesn't get home till about 6:45 every night. If a kid needs to prep to get in, the schedule there will be difficult for that child to keep up with.

Looks like your TJ kid is not taking 4 to 6 APs/Post-APs that the top TJ kids typically take in sophomore (4) to junior (6) years.

Many TJ students do that, but they work very hard to achieve it. "sailing through TJ with no homework" is a unicorn -- everyone has heard of one, but no one can name one.
OP TJ is a grind -- it is for students who really like to work hard. Just getting by at TJ with barely a B average is fairly rare and those student usually drop. there are a few, but they are usually under quite a lot of pressure from their parents. The TJ entrance test is not that hard -- 50% of students qualify after taking the test. But of those 0nly 25% approx. are accepted. If your DC does not like to do academic homework, TJ may not be the best fit.
--- signed TJ mom senior year

Number may be for our entrance year only. that year 3000+ applied, 1500 wee semi finalist, 380 admitted, 40 have dropped out

[Anonymous]

Every kid at TJ has homework, of course, but some learn and understand more quickly than others, so can do the same amount of work and get the same grades without having to stay up late every night. There are lots of bright kids at TJ who achieve at a high level and still have time for other activities. They are working hard at both academics and non-academics, which are both important to the development of kids this age.

What takes one kid two hours to understand might take another kid an hour, so that kid has an hour to use for outside activities. Kids are different. Parents have known their own kids for years and see how they react to new information. Teachers see them in school and can tell which kids are picking up new information quickly and easily.

TJ is a great opportunity for kids who can do the work and still have time to pursue some of the other great activities available there.

[Anonymous]

Number may be for our entrance year only. that year 3000+ applied, 1500 wee semi finalist, 380 admitted, 40 have dropped out

I'm sure this is just a typo, but 480 is the number admitted each year, not 380. It makes a difference when figuring out the percentages.

[donalan]

My son has been in AAP since 3rd and has always tested in the top 98% percentile on nationally standardized tests. He made it to the final cut to TJ this year but did not get in. His test scores were disproportionately low for him at 70% on the final (2nd round) of testing for TJ. To be so far off on the testing - to go from 98% to 70% suggests to me test preparation by other students specific to the entrance exam is a factor. My son is at the maximum level of math and other courses in 8th grade (AAP in all classes and Honors Geometry). I cannot figure why he would drop a couple full standard deviations when his ranking among the same students is high outside of the actual admissions test.

It is widely known that there are a variety of 'test preparation services' that use banks of previous years questions and successful answers to 'prepare' students. These are professionally taught test prep courses by instructors with years experience in the specific TJ admissions test and admissions process. It is not uncommon for students to spend multiple years preparing for the TJ Admission test.

Being very very smart is not nearly enough to be admitted to TJ. If hundreds of the 1,280 finalists have been studying and preparing the TJ test outside of school with the benefit of previous years questions and successful answers it is unlikely someone not so trained will excel on the test. Bottom like if you think your child would enjoy TJ and is already very smart, start a couple years in advance sending them to a course that uses a vast database of previous years admission exam questions and answers.

The test prep courses offer a 90% acceptance rate whereas the general acceptance rate is about 10%. Being very smart is not what getting into TJ is about - its very smart kids being trained to pass.

[Anonymous]

donalan wrote:My son has been in AAP since 3rd and has always tested in the top 98% percentile on nationally standardized tests. He made it to the final cut to TJ this year but did not get in. His test scores were disproportionately low for him at 70% on the final (2nd round) of testing for TJ. To be so far off on the testing - to go from 98% to 70% suggests to me test preparation by other students specific to the entrance exam is a factor. My son is at the maximum level of math and other courses in 8th grade (AAP in all classes and Honors Geometry). I cannot figure why he would drop a couple full standard deviations when his ranking among the same students is high outside of the actual admissions test.

It is widely known that there are a variety of 'test preparation services' that use banks of previous years questions and successful answers to 'prepare' students. These are professionally taught test prep courses by instructors with years experience in the specific TJ admissions test and admissions process. It is not uncommon for students to spend multiple years preparing for the TJ Admission test.

Being very very smart is not nearly enough to be admitted to TJ. If hundreds of the 1,280 finalists have been studying and preparing the TJ test outside of school with the benefit of previous years questions and successful answers it is unlikely someone not so trained will excel on the test. Bottom like if you think your child would enjoy TJ and is already very smart, start a couple years in advance sending them to a course that uses a vast database of previous years admission exam questions and answers.

The test prep courses offer a 90% acceptance rate whereas the general acceptance rate is about 10%. Being very smart is not what getting into TJ is about - its very smart kids being trained to pass.

My son did not have any outside prep and received 49 math and 50 verbal.

[Anonymous]

donalan wrote:My son has been in AAP since 3rd and has always tested in the top 98% percentile on nationally standardized tests. He made it to the final cut to TJ this year but did not get in. His test scores were disproportionately low for him at 70% on the final (2nd round) of testing for TJ. To be so far off on the testing - to go from 98% to 70% suggests to me test preparation by other students specific to the entrance exam is a factor. My son is at the maximum level of math and other courses in 8th grade (AAP in all classes and Honors Geometry). I cannot figure why he would drop a couple full standard deviations when his ranking among the same students is high outside of the actual admissions test.

It is widely known that there are a variety of 'test preparation services' that use banks of previous years questions and successful answers to 'prepare' students. These are professionally taught test prep courses by instructors with years experience in the specific TJ admissions test and admissions process. It is not uncommon for students to spend multiple years preparing for the TJ Admission test.

Being very very smart is not nearly enough to be admitted to TJ. If hundreds of the 1,280 finalists have been studying and preparing the TJ test outside of school with the benefit of previous years questions and successful answers it is unlikely someone not so trained will excel on the test. Bottom like if you think your child would enjoy TJ and is already very smart, start a couple years in advance sending them to a course that uses a vast database of previous years admission exam questions and answers.

The test prep courses offer a 90% acceptance rate whereas the general acceptance rate is about 10%. Being very smart is not what getting into TJ is about - its very smart kids being trained to pass.

Does your son need extra time to finish his tests? Does he have straight A's in middle school? Does he do activities that demonstrate an interest in STEM? Is he a decent writer?

I have 2 kids who went to TJ and neither did test prep beyond taking the sample test on the website. They both scored in the mid- to high 40's.

[Anonymous]

My daughter had no prep and got 49V and 48M.

To be so far off on the testing - to go from 98% to 70% suggests to me test preparation by other students specific to the entrance exam is a factor. My son is at the maximum level of math and other courses in 8th grade (AAP in all classes and Honors Geometry). I cannot figure why he would drop a couple full standard deviations when his ranking among the same students is high outside of the actual admissions test.

Truly, I am not trying to be unkind. But are you sure your child wanted to go to TJ? I have heard of kids who deliberately do poorly on the test.

[Anonymous]

My child did no test prep other than the sample on TJ's website and was accepted, so while prepping can help some kids, not all kids prep. In addition, a lot of kids leave in the first year or so, and many of those kids are kids who have prepped to the nth degree and just can't handle the level of classes at TJ without all the handholding provided by prep classes.

I am sorry for your son, it is hard to see our kids be disappointed. The test is only one day; we all have bad days sometimes, and your son might have just had a bad day the day of the testing. He is still the very smart kid you have always known and I bet that he will do great in high school. If he still wants to next year, he can reapply.

One of my kids went to TJ and has had a great experience there, the others went to other schools and had great experiences there. AP and IB offer lots of great challenges and opportunities for smart kids like your son.

[Anonymous]

donalan wrote:My son has been in AAP since 3rd and has always tested in the top 98% percentile on nationally standardized tests. He made it to the final cut to TJ this year but did not get in. His test scores were disproportionately low for him at 70% on the final (2nd round) of testing for TJ. To be so far off on the testing - to go from 98% to 70% suggests to me test preparation by other students specific to the entrance exam is a factor. My son is at the maximum level of math and other courses in 8th grade (AAP in all classes and Honors Geometry). I cannot figure why he would drop a couple full standard deviations when his ranking among the same students is high outside of the actual admissions test.

It is widely known that there are a variety of 'test preparation services' that use banks of previous years questions and successful answers to 'prepare' students. These are professionally taught test prep courses by instructors with years experience in the specific TJ admissions test and admissions process. It is not uncommon for students to spend multiple years preparing for the TJ Admission test.

Being very very smart is not nearly enough to be admitted to TJ. If hundreds of the 1,280 finalists have been studying and preparing the TJ test outside of school with the benefit of previous years questions and successful answers it is unlikely someone not so trained will excel on the test. Bottom like if you think your child would enjoy TJ and is already very smart, start a couple years in advance sending them to a course that uses a vast database of previous years admission exam questions and answers.

The test prep courses offer a 90% acceptance rate whereas the general acceptance rate is about 10%. Being very smart is not what getting into TJ is about - its very smart kids being trained to pass.

As a parent whose son received the same results I understand where you are coming from. What I have come to realize is there are plenty of kids who do well who do not test prep. There are even more who do serious test prep. We know some who began classes in 4th or 5th grade. Like your child, my DS has had straight A's in AAP throughout school, including this year in Middle school, also taking AAP and Geometry.

For me though, it is not how our family works to spend endless time preparing for a test. If DS was admitted without preparation, then of course, we would have allowed him to attend if he chose to. The fact that he did not tells me he is still a very intelligent child who will have a chance to shine in our home school. Life will be less complicated due to the lack of travel.

I get why you feel prepping is the only way, but not everyone who is accepted does prep. For us, if we had to prep for the test for him to be admitted, then maybe it was not the right fit. For others, TJ is always the end goal, so they will do whatever they can do be sure their child is admitted. Others have children who do not need test prep to be accepted. To each his own.

[Anonymous]

The PP is drawing the wrong conclusion based on her child's performance on that one day of testing.

My DC did the sample test on the TJ website. No other prep and scored 48M and 50V.

More to the point, that test is used for determining the semifinalists. I don't believe we have a score for the SIS day?

The review is holistic which means grades, test, SIS/essay and teacher recs. There are many reasons why PP's DC might not have been accepted.