GDSS vs Sidwell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another parent here with both Sidwell and GDS high school grads within the past five years. The 3-11 11:05 post is pretty spot on. These are two really wonderful schools and the key is where your kid is most comfortable. GDS is more informal (teachers on first name basis) and it tends to draw many kids who are really into the arts (theater/music). The school proudly notes it has no football team but the musical/play/one acts are a really big deal. And they are. So are the regular events/cabarets where both students and faculty perform. Sidwell is more formal and has more detailed rules ( check out the handbook). It also tends to draw students who are more into sports as a rule (these are broad generalizations of course). And the weekly meeting and Quaker values have a significant impact (largely quite positive in my view) on the student experience. Both schools have amazing academics. Sidwell has a more advanced Chinese program including opportunities in China and more students who study abroad through SYA. Sidwell has a dining room for lunch but GDS does not. GDS has a better after-hours hang-out area for students (the forum) whereas at Sidwell the school shuts down earlier and sends the message that students should be at home with their families as part of a balanced life. GDS gives the students slightly more freedom and Sidwell more structure but both deliver an amazing education focused on critical thinking and analysis mostly in small-group discussion-based classes. Sidwell has slightly less grade inflation. You really cannot go wrong with these two schools. The key is: what is the best fit for your student?

Terrific post -- highlights the positives of both schools with salient details. Thanks for posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another parent here with both Sidwell and GDS high school grads within the past five years. The 3-11 11:05 post is pretty spot on. These are two really wonderful schools and the key is where your kid is most comfortable. GDS is more informal (teachers on first name basis) and it tends to draw many kids who are really into the arts (theater/music). The school proudly notes it has no football team but the musical/play/one acts are a really big deal. And they are. So are the regular events/cabarets where both students and faculty perform. Sidwell is more formal and has more detailed rules ( check out the handbook). It also tends to draw students who are more into sports as a rule (these are broad generalizations of course). And the weekly meeting and Quaker values have a significant impact (largely quite positive in my view) on the student experience. Both schools have amazing academics. Sidwell has a more advanced Chinese program including opportunities in China and more students who study abroad through SYA. Sidwell has a dining room for lunch but GDS does not. GDS has a better after-hours hang-out area for students (the forum) whereas at Sidwell the school shuts down earlier and sends the message that students should be at home with their families as part of a balanced life. GDS gives the students slightly more freedom and Sidwell more structure but both deliver an amazing education focused on critical thinking and analysis mostly in small-group discussion-based classes. Sidwell has slightly less grade inflation. You really cannot go wrong with these two schools. The key is: what is the best fit for your student?

This made me laugh. Thanks, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another parent here with both Sidwell and GDS high school grads within the past five years. The 3-11 11:05 post is pretty spot on. These are two really wonderful schools and the key is where your kid is most comfortable. GDS is more informal (teachers on first name basis) and it tends to draw many kids who are really into the arts (theater/music). The school proudly notes it has no football team but the musical/play/one acts are a really big deal. And they are. So are the regular events/cabarets where both students and faculty perform. Sidwell is more formal and has more detailed rules ( check out the handbook). It also tends to draw students who are more into sports as a rule (these are broad generalizations of course). And the weekly meeting and Quaker values have a significant impact (largely quite positive in my view) on the student experience. Both schools have amazing academics. Sidwell has a more advanced Chinese program including opportunities in China and more students who study abroad through SYA. Sidwell has a dining room for lunch but GDS does not. GDS has a better after-hours hang-out area for students (the forum) whereas at Sidwell the school shuts down earlier and sends the message that students should be at home with their families as part of a balanced life. GDS gives the students slightly more freedom and Sidwell more structure but both deliver an amazing education focused on critical thinking and analysis mostly in small-group discussion-based classes. Sidwell has slightly less grade inflation. You really cannot go wrong with these two schools. The key is: what is the best fit for your student?

Sidwell students can sign out to go off campus during free periods and lunch, or they can stay on campus at the dining hall. Further, there is a coffee house on campus, so students hang out there, outside or at the library. The campus does have a lot of late afternoon and evening activity. Not sure where this poster gets the idea that the campus shuts down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting insight. And, of course, there's the elephant in the room. Many, many families apply to and choose SFS at least in part b/c of the Obamas. "

Sidwell family here: I would say that is probably a factor in 95% of applications. I'm not saying that 95% of people apply because the Obamas are there. I think that 95% factor that in - pros + cons. My guess is that it bumped apps by 30 percent or more.

Obamas dont come to the school auction but Clinton did. Proceeds increased significatly just by having him there.

The Obama effect probably ran its course at Sidwell Friends several years ago. As you suggest, there are benefits and burdens. The Clinton era seems, to use a phrase, a simpler time and so last century. In today's social media and frenzied 24 hour political cycle, no good could ever come (at least to the president) from his attending a private school auction.

This is really true. I know several teachers at SFS who were there when Chelsea Clinton attended as well. When Chelsea was there, they barely even knew the Secret Service was there. She led a much more "normal" life at the school. With the Obama girls, it's a completely different situation.

The world is very different today.

[Anonymous]

I only meant that at GDS you can pick your kid up at 9:30 on a weekday night after say a musical dress rehearsal and there will be a good number of kids there hanging out and studying or socializing in the forum waiting to be picked up by parents who have been working late. Not true at Sidwell. There is no central place to hang out that stays open late and is guarded like the forum. Sidwell athletes returning from away games get in their cars or their parents pick them up around 8 or 8:30 in the parking garage. Most regular after-school sports and club activities are done by 6:30. That may also be true at GDS but there always seem to be kids in the forum late every night. Some kids stay late if they need to work on a paper, for example.

[Anonymous]

Sidwell kids have places to go, people to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very few, if any at Sidwell care about the "brand" or the reconizable factor at the school. I agree with the PP...the fact that the Obamas kids are at Sidwell has no bearing at all on the current life of the school. Same is true of the Clintons, Nixons or any of the so-called famous people at STA, NCS, Maret etc. It is a non-issue except, for some reason, to GDS people (or trolls).

So you don't care what image does the school of your DC project? Ha! If the answer is yes, you care about the brand. Apart of that, the recognizable factor makes more people apply so yes, it does matter.
Why the denial?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Glad my comments were helpful to a couple of families deciding this weekend. Couple more things about topics mentioned earlier in this thread.

On college admissions, both schools have an enviable track record and the variations from year to year seem to have more to do with the strength of different classes than with which school is better positioned to send students to highly selective colleges. So my advice on this is not to let this be the deciding factor, because I think there is no meaningful difference. What is most important is to pick the one that will best support the growth and development of your kid. That is after all the primary benefit of the high school experience, not college admission. In addition, I think both schools do a very fine job helping both students and parents navigate the college admissions process. This includes getting the students to think seriously about what THEY want out of their college experience as well as to come up with a list of 9 or so schools that range from reach to safety schools. Both schools put a limit on the number of colleges the students can apply to. While at first this struck me as not a decision for the school to make, I have come to see the wisdom of it. It helps everyone in the class with college admissions, and 9 schools is plenty. It also forces the students to think hard about what they want and which colleges are the best fit for them. Both schools do a pretty good job of calming the parents down and of letting them know that parental worry over college admissions is a major stressor for the students.

On the chip-on-the-shoulder thing, I do think there is a trace of this at GDS, but it is unwarranted. Maybe it comes from the fact that the Obama kids are at Sidwell and Sidwell is a much older school. But GDS is rightly proud of its own history as the first integrated school in the District and a leader in progressive education. To me, this is a bit like Harvard and Yale. Some Yalies have a slight chip about Harvard because the latter is older and has a bigger international reputation, but those who really know both institutions recognize that each has distinct advantages -- and both are wonderful schools. So I would also not let this be a factor. To the extent that parents might gain some comfort or validation from the fact that Sidwell is the school chosen by the President to educate his kids, you should keep in mind that GDS is the school chosen by the Attorney General. Both schools can point to many prominent and discerning parents who chose one over the other school.

At both schools, you will have lots of opportunities to get involved with other parents and the school -- if you have the time and want to do that (but you won't be pressured to do that if it is not your cup of tea). There are school-sponsored dinners for small groups of parents at the beginning of 9th grade and thereafter, plus other events that facilitate this process. If your kid plays sports, you will meet lots of parents at the games. If your kid sings in the choir, you will meet the other parents at the performances. In short, both schools do a good job of welcoming and integrating new families and making them feel comfortable. The parent cohort is pretty similar at both schools -- lawyers, academics, politicos, World Bank types, journalists and other professionals are overrepresented. What the parents all seem to have in common is a very strong commitment to and interest in their kids' education and development.

I agree with previous posters that the "vibe" at GDS is more informal and casual and the physical setting (especially in the forum) is a little bit more disorganized/chaotic. Kids at GDS hang out in the forum and leave their stuff there and that is the first impression one gets upon entering the main building. I also agree that there is a slightly greater sense at GDS that the students "own" the place. But both schools do a good job in creating a strong community that the students are proud of. And both do a good job of helping students to become effective advocates for themselves. GDS has a slightly more PC tinge to it culture. GDS is more Oberlin and Sidwell is more Haverford/Swarthmore.

Community service is emphasized at both schools, but Sidwell has more organized activities and events (work days, etc. and events that involve the parents as well if they want to participate). At Sidwell, there is also a meeting for worship that the parents are invited to every so often. Again, you can take that or leave it. No pressure to attend if it is not your cup of tea.

Because each class at these schools is relatively small (120), the class has a distinctive character. Although at both schools there is an influx of 35-50 new students in 9th grade, it is worth asking about the rising 8th grade class and what it is like. Does it have any sort of reputation? Any problems or issues? For example, if you have a daughter and that class is clique-y with some mean girls, that would be useful to know. Etc. So that is something worth asking of other parents of 8th graders.

Finally, again, you can't go wrong with this choice. One of my two kids got into both and picked Sidwell as the better fit. One of his closest friends in junior high school also got into both and picked GDS. I think both made the right choices for themselves. And both were extremely happy with their experiences.

Good luck!

Many thanks for this terrific post! Truly useful!

[Anonymous]

OP here. After much soul searching, we have decided on SFS.

[Anonymous]

On college counseling I think people actually need to pay a little more attention to Sidwelll and I Say this as some one who believed that this was a huge weakness many years. I went on this board to bash Sidwell for its college counseling and its anti- parent attitude. Things seem to have dramatically turned around in the last two years with new blood and a new attitude. Forgive me or don't forgive me for the boasting but I believe it's important data. The results are coming in now and it's telling what a difference that a great college counseling program can have - an area where I believe that GDS was stronger. But this year Sidwell has at least 10 acceptances to Yale; 8 to Penn; 5 to Brown: 5 to Stanford; two to Harvard; at least one to MIT. Not to mention various acceptances to Cornell, Middlebury etc

[Anonymous]

for me the big elephant in the room at GDS has to be the future of the constructuion project. It's going to re-define the school but there is also going to be serious disruption over a period of at least one or two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few, if any at Sidwell care about the "brand" or the reconizable factor at the school. I agree with the PP...the fact that the Obamas kids are at Sidwell has no bearing at all on the current life of the school. Same is true of the Clintons, Nixons or any of the so-called famous people at STA, NCS, Maret etc. It is a non-issue except, for some reason, to GDS people (or trolls).

So you don't care what image does the school of your DC project? Ha! If the answer is yes, you care about the brand. Apart of that, the recognizable factor makes more people apply so yes, it does matter.
Why the denial?

I guess I distinguish between "image" as you put it and the regular operation and function of an institution. I care that students and parents represent the community in an appropriate manner, but I don't, and I don't think the majority, care about any sort of status conferred based on who matriculates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On college counseling I think people actually need to pay a little more attention to Sidwelll and I Say this as some one who believed that this was a huge weakness many years. I went on this board to bash Sidwell for its college counseling and its anti- parent attitude. Things seem to have dramatically turned around in the last two years with new blood and a new attitude. Forgive me or don't forgive me for the boasting but I believe it's important data. The results are coming in now and it's telling what a difference that a great college counseling program can have - an area where I believe that GDS was stronger. But this year Sidwell has at least 10 acceptances to Yale; 8 to Penn; 5 to Brown: 5 to Stanford; two to Harvard; at least one to MIT. Not to mention various acceptances to Cornell, Middlebury etc

Please don't buy into the idea that past performance is a future guarantee (to borrow investing terminology). Things change so much from year to year. This was a great but unusual year for Sidwell (although they always have excellent college admissions results). If you buy in thinking the people in one college counselors' office at one school can get your kid into a specific school as compare to the college counseling at another school, you are just setting yourself up for significant disappointment. Private school does not assure access. What you'll get is an excellent education (also available at many public schools) that will prepare your child beautifully for college. You will probably also get a lot of care and attention in the college process -- does a guidance counselor at a school with 500 - 800 seniors have time to comment on their essays, for example? No. But in the end, it will be about your child's performance (grades, recs, talents, scores) and a lot about luck and margins of error in terms of any small subset of schools with desirable vegetation on their structures.

[Anonymous]

Pp: not really buying your point. There are a handful of schools that do much better than all others. New England boarding schools a few schools in NYC Etc. It is possible that a change in staffing can create long term results. It's true in business, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be in academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another parent here with both Sidwell and GDS high school grads within the past five years. The 3-11 11:05 post is pretty spot on. These are two really wonderful schools and the key is where your kid is most comfortable. GDS is more informal (teachers on first name basis) and it tends to draw many kids who are really into the arts (theater/music). The school proudly notes it has no football team but the musical/play/one acts are a really big deal. And they are. So are the regular events/cabarets where both students and faculty perform. Sidwell is more formal and has more detailed rules ( check out the handbook). It also tends to draw students who are more into sports as a rule (these are broad generalizations of course). And the weekly meeting and Quaker values have a significant impact (largely quite positive in my view) on the student experience. Both schools have amazing academics. Sidwell has a more advanced Chinese program including opportunities in China and more students who study abroad through SYA. Sidwell has a dining room for lunch but GDS does not. GDS has a better after-hours hang-out area for students (the forum) whereas at Sidwell the school shuts down earlier and sends the message that students should be at home with their families as part of a balanced life. GDS gives the students slightly more freedom and Sidwell more structure but both deliver an amazing education focused on critical thinking and analysis mostly in small-group discussion-based classes. Sidwell has slightly less grade inflation. You really cannot go wrong with these two schools. The key is: what is the best fit for your student?

This made me laugh. Thanks, PP.

+1 Aside from this not-so-subtle swipe at GDS (btw, the families at both schools would be virtually indistinguishable on paper), one big difference to consider is that GDS HS is metro-accessible. You have a good number of kids who come to school via metro. So, if you are considering transit options, this is a big plus.