The Quran and mocking Mohammed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can you read the Bible and not apply the context in which it also was written. It condones a lot of violence and human right violations.

Show me the violence and human rights violations in the gospels, thanks! And not that thing about "bringing a sword" that somebody here has to explain, about once a month, is obviously a metaphor. Anything else, thanks!

I will agree with you that context is important in one particular case: when you read Paul's letters about sodomy and how women should cover their heads during prayer, it helps to know who Paul was and that he was interpreting for his time some issues that Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Depending on the context and what suits her purpose at the time, Muslima will either tell you that the Quran is the source that should be relied on over the hadith, or that most of the Quran is up for interpretation and nobody shouldn't refer to it without years of study and consulting scholars.

This is not accurate. The Qu'ran is and remains the primary source for All Muslims. The hadiths are secondary, and yes you can not quote a random verse of the Qu'ran without the context or citing the paragraph to refer to the story being told. I recognize all hadiths that are sahib and I accept them as that, sahiH hadiths, but the Qu'ran is the primary source of everything I question, unless the answer is not there, and then i refer to the hadiths.

And some hadith are viewed as more reliable than others. Depending on the context and what suits her purpose at the time, Muslima will either tell you that the hadith are reliable (yesterday's kharawij discussion) or that the Quran is the source that should be relied on over the hadith.

Again false, stop misrepresenting me. The Qur'an is and remains the primary source, so of course it should be relied on over hadith, but the hadiths that are sahih do not contradict the Qur'an so your point is moot. I accept all SAHIiH Hadiths hence why i quoted the hadith about the Khawarij .

Would you agree that, unlike the Old or New Testaments, the Quran cannot be read by a layperson who lacks context? I think you have said this multiple times. You have objected frequently to people pulling verses out of the Quran to say "Islam says XYZ."

Some Muslims also argue that you can't read the Quran except in the original Arabic. That, plus the need for scholarly interpretation, puts it out of the reach of most lay people, whether they are Muslims or outsiders trying to understand Islam. Muslima in particular likes to have it both ways: she says, above, that the Quran is the primary source, but if you quote a Quranic verse here she will tell you that you can't possibly understand the verse you are quoting.

[Anonymous]

Go to the library!

I'm fine at home, paying our fee.

We can afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you read the Bible and not apply the context in which it also was written. It condones a lot of violence and human right violations.

Show me the violence and human rights violations in the gospels, thanks! And not that thing about "bringing a sword" that somebody here has to explain, about once a month, is obviously a metaphor. Anything else, thanks!

I will agree with you that context is important in one particular case: when you read Paul's letters about sodomy and how women should cover their heads during prayer, it helps to know who Paul was and that he was interpreting for his time some issues that Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about.

an interesting NPR article
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788
Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you read the Bible and not apply the context in which it also was written. It condones a lot of violence and human right violations.

Show me the violence and human rights violations in the gospels, thanks! And not that thing about "bringing a sword" that somebody here has to explain, about once a month, is obviously a metaphor. Anything else, thanks!

I will agree with you that context is important in one particular case: when you read Paul's letters about sodomy and how women should cover their heads during prayer, it helps to know who Paul was and that he was interpreting for his time some issues that Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about.

an interesting NPR article
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788
Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?

I take it you're done answering questions about the Quran, so you're trying to change the subject here?

The NPR piece was thoughtful, and interesting. Of note, though, is that the example from 1 Samuel is most definitely Old Testament, and the article gave no examples from the New Testament. Also the distinction between destroying the enemy at one point in time, versus an ongoing struggle. The discussion of Islam seemed balanced, with two views offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you read the Bible and not apply the context in which it also was written. It condones a lot of violence and human right violations.

Show me the violence and human rights violations in the gospels, thanks! And not that thing about "bringing a sword" that somebody here has to explain, about once a month, is obviously a metaphor. Anything else, thanks!

I will agree with you that context is important in one particular case: when you read Paul's letters about sodomy and how women should cover their heads during prayer, it helps to know who Paul was and that he was interpreting for his time some issues that Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about.

an interesting NPR article
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788
Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?

I take it you're done answering questions about the Quran, so you're trying to change the subject here?

The NPR piece was thoughtful, and interesting. Of note, though, is that the example from 1 Samuel is most definitely Old Testament, and the article gave no examples from the New Testament. Also the distinction between destroying the enemy at one point in time, versus an ongoing struggle. The discussion of Islam seemed balanced, with two views offered.

I posted the NPR article.

I am not part of this fight. I just found the article and posted it b/c I thought it was interesting - and somewhat balanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you read the Bible and not apply the context in which it also was written. It condones a lot of violence and human right violations.

Show me the violence and human rights violations in the gospels, thanks! And not that thing about "bringing a sword" that somebody here has to explain, about once a month, is obviously a metaphor. Anything else, thanks!

I will agree with you that context is important in one particular case: when you read Paul's letters about sodomy and how women should cover their heads during prayer, it helps to know who Paul was and that he was interpreting for his time some issues that Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you read the Bible and not apply the context in which it also was written. It condones a lot of violence and human right violations.

Show me the violence and human rights violations in the gospels, thanks! And not that thing about "bringing a sword" that somebody here has to explain, about once a month, is obviously a metaphor. Anything else, thanks!

I will agree with you that context is important in one particular case: when you read Paul's letters about sodomy and how women should cover their heads during prayer, it helps to know who Paul was and that he was interpreting for his time some issues that Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Old Testament again.

[Anonymous]

Not sure why we're talking about the Bible in this Mocking Mohammed thread! But things are pretty different in the Old vs. New Testament. Below is from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.


Matthew, NIV:
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’h 39But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbori and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you read the Bible and not apply the context in which it also was written. It condones a lot of violence and human right violations.

Show me the violence and human rights violations in the gospels, thanks! And not that thing about "bringing a sword" that somebody here has to explain, about once a month, is obviously a metaphor. Anything else, thanks!

I will agree with you that context is important in one particular case: when you read Paul's letters about sodomy and how women should cover their heads during prayer, it helps to know who Paul was and that he was interpreting for his time some issues that Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Old Testament again.

O so your one of those that uses the New Testament cop out but...
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why we're talking about the Bible in this Mocking Mohammed thread! But things are pretty different in the Old vs. New Testament. Below is from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.


Matthew, NIV:
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’h 39But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbori and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

And the Quran says about the same thing, so....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why we're talking about the Bible in this Mocking Mohammed thread! But things are pretty different in the Old vs. New Testament. Below is from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.


Matthew, NIV:
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’h 39But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbori and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This isn't very nice.

Jesus: “For God commanded, Honor your father and your mother, and, Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die”
(Matt 15:4)
And the Quran says about the same thing, so....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you read the Bible and not apply the context in which it also was written. It condones a lot of violence and human right violations.

Show me the violence and human rights violations in the gospels, thanks! And not that thing about "bringing a sword" that somebody here has to explain, about once a month, is obviously a metaphor. Anything else, thanks!

I will agree with you that context is important in one particular case: when you read Paul's letters about sodomy and how women should cover their heads during prayer, it helps to know who Paul was and that he was interpreting for his time some issues that Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Old Testament again.

ok a litle New Testament then:
Psalm 137:9
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Mathew
10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

Mark
6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Hebrews
11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:


sorry many more.....

[Anonymous]

The Psalms are New Testament? Hebrews are New Testament? Who knew?!?!?! You are an idiot.

OK, this has turned into yet another Christian-bashing session, by people who don't have the first clue.

Outta here.