Proposal Implications: Loss of Proximity, Forced to go to Lowest Performing School, Concerns OOB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a note that if proximity were the only factor then some current Hearst families would actually be going to Janney or Murch now (there are houses in bounds for Hearst that are closer to Janney and some I think closer to Murch).

The issue is that you can't always just use proximity to a school for assignment because the schools are not distributed evenly around the city; it is just a fact that some schools end up close to the edge of their boundary.

That's true about some current Hearst families. But I disagree about your conclusion that that fact undercuts the importance of proximity to the discussion. As Mary Cheh has said several times recently at events, you should take proximity first always and then layer other things on top of that. You should never discount proximity. The blocks that are closer to Janney or Murch then Hearst now should be rezoned to their closest school too. As I understand it, the principal of Janney thinks that would make sense and that schools shouldn't be close to the edge of their boundary and should be more centralized in their zones. If a wholesale rezoning is needed, proximity should come first and schools should be moved closer to the center of the communities they serve and then some creative solutions should address the further out neighborhoods that aren't proximate to any school. The schools aren't distributed evenly around the city but that doesn't negate the value that should be placed on proximity from a city planning perspective. The city should never send children out of their own neighborhood for school assignment in order to bring children into the neighborhood in cars from further away. To the extent that is happening now any efforts currently underway should seek to remedy it. And any new plan certainly shouldn't exacerbate the situation.The DME plan has done no transportation study and made no effort to evaluate the implications of these changes in that way.

I don't think there's money in the budget to move schools. Murch, Janney, and Lafayette are all significantly overcrowded. Moving some of the students to Hearst, which is less than a mile away, makes more sense from a proximity standpoint than spending money to add slots at Murch while other families travel all the way across the city to Hearst.

I'm not sure you need a transportation study to evaluate moving kids from a school that is in easy walking distance from their home, to another school that is also within easy walking distance from their home, albeit a few blocks farther.

How do you know that the DME didn't make an effort to evaluate the implications of these changes?

Because I've been to tons of meetings that have been held on this subjec where people on the Advisory Committee have spoken and they have stated that they haven't evaluated these questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Walking/running apps show walking distance better then something like Bing which is more for driving. The milages I inluded in my post at 15:56 were from an app where you can choose the most obvious and direct walking path and find the shortest. The .3 and twice as far is for the 36th/Albermarle location. The rezoning includes only a few blocks but it does matter which you pick to map. Again, you can say you don't care or "close enough" but you can't say that these locations are not being sent to their third furthest school while further neigbhorhoods are being brought to the school for the first time.

The "neighborhood" (two blocks with pretty widely spaced houses) that are being brought to Murch may be further from Murch, but they are also significantly further from Hearst by any reasonable walking or driving route because of the way that the Soapstone tributary runs.

I would argue that the blocks being rezoned to Hearst are an easy walk to Hearst. I would not say the same thing about the houses that are being zoned to Murch, there's a major hill, it's more than a mile, and you'd need to cross Connecticut without a crossing guard.

The DME's proposal seems to place an emphasis on being within a mile from your neighborhood school. This is in keeping with the local suburbs. Montgomery County, Fairfax County, and Arlington County have all set 1 mile as the reasonable distance for an elementary school student to walk (PG is an outlier at 1.5 miles), and provide buses to elementary school students who live farther.

I think a mile seems reasonable, and that from that perspective the new zoning, which ensures that all kids in the area are a mile or less from a school, seem to make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The block swap simply switches some sparsely populated Hearst blocks to Murch and some heavily populated apartment blocks from Murch to Hearst.

I do love charter posters who think they aren't affected by this at all. The common lottery was just the first step my friend.

Not worried at all. My HRCS won't let you in after pre-k and we love the rainbow- all colors, all races. So I'm good.

[Anonymous]

Did the DME document that "within a mile standard" anywhere? That isn't a standard that is used in city planning or sustainable living principles for walkability. It is smaller then that, .25-.5 miles. DME should apply the principals that the rest of the urban planning world uses for walkability and not move people that are currently within those principles just b/c their new assignment is also less then a mile.

[Anonymous]

Yes Charter poster until DCPS screws with your system. Don't worry, it is coming. The more scandals the more "oversight" you will get.

And we just got a spot at EL for 4th grade. We were not even top 5 on the waitlist. Or is that now not a HRCS? We actually turned it down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did the DME document that "within a mile standard" anywhere? That isn't a standard that is used in city planning or sustainable living principles for walkability. It is smaller then that, .25-.5 miles. DME should apply the principals that the rest of the urban planning world uses for walkability and not move people that are currently within those principles just b/c their new assignment is also less then a mile.

Yes, it's in the proposal that kids who are more than 1 mile will have proximity preference at a nearer school. You can't get much clearer than that.

DME appears to be applying the principals that the rest of the country uses to plan schools and transportation. 1 mile is a very common expectation for elementary school walkability.

They didn't move people "just because" their new assignment is less than a mile. They moved because because their current school was overcrowded and there were spots available in a school that was less than a mile away.

[Anonymous]

^^that makes sense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the DME document that "within a mile standard" anywhere? That isn't a standard that is used in city planning or sustainable living principles for walkability. It is smaller then that, .25-.5 miles. DME should apply the principals that the rest of the urban planning world uses for walkability and not move people that are currently within those principles just b/c their new assignment is also less then a mile.

Yes, it's in the proposal that kids who are more than 1 mile will have proximity preference at a nearer school. You can't get much clearer than that.

DME appears to be applying the principals that the rest of the country uses to plan schools and transportation. 1 mile is a very common expectation for elementary school walkability.

They didn't move people "just because" their new assignment is less than a mile. They moved because because their current school was overcrowded and there were spots available in a school that was less than a mile away.

I must have had schools on my brain when I wrote that, because I really do know the difference between principles and principals.

[Anonymous]

Just to put it into perspective we are talking about tenths of a mile change in distance to a completely acceptable school.

OP your plea will fall on deaf ears (as it should).

Yes, rational Murch parent here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just to put it into perspective we are talking about tenths of a mile change in distance to a completely acceptable school.

OP your plea will fall on deaf ears (as it should).

Yes, rational Murch parent here.

Right. Ward 3 problems.

[Anonymous]

Please get over yourselves people who are fortunate to have have good pathway through DCPS.

To the rest of the city you're known as www3. Whiney white ward 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Walking/running apps show walking distance better then something like Bing which is more for driving. The milages I inluded in my post at 15:56 were from an app where you can choose the most obvious and direct walking path and find the shortest. The .3 and twice as far is for the 36th/Albermarle location. The rezoning includes only a few blocks but it does matter which you pick to map. Again, you can say you don't care or "close enough" but you can't say that these locations are not being sent to their third furthest school while further neigbhorhoods are being brought to the school for the first time.

The "neighborhood" (two blocks with pretty widely spaced houses) that are being brought to Murch may be further from Murch, but they are also significantly further from Hearst by any reasonable walking or driving route because of the way that the Soapstone tributary runs.

I would argue that the blocks being rezoned to Hearst are an easy walk to Hearst. I would not say the same thing about the houses that are being zoned to Murch, there's a major hill, it's more than a mile, and you'd need to cross Connecticut without a crossing guard.

The DME's proposal seems to place an emphasis on being within a mile from your neighborhood school. This is in keeping with the local suburbs. Montgomery County, Fairfax County, and Arlington County have all set 1 mile as the reasonable distance for an elementary school student to walk (PG is an outlier at 1.5 miles), and provide buses to elementary school students who live farther.

I think a mile seems reasonable, and that from that perspective the new zoning, which ensures that all kids in the area are a mile or less from a school, seem to make sense.

Thank you Mr. Advisory Committee Member.

[Anonymous]

This is not the nationally accepted standard.

The American Planning Association states that no elementary student should have to walk more than 5/8 of a mile in any type of rural or urban setting. The ideal is no more than 1/4 - 1/5 a mile maximum as the earlier poster stated.
(https://www.planning.org/pas/at60/report175.htm)

The EPA is also very clear on this:

"Locate school such that a large portion of the student body lives within 1?2 mile (elementary)"

(http://www.epa.gov/schools/siting/downloads/Exhibit_4_Desirable_Attributes_of_Candidate_Locations.pdf)

Further Sustainable D.C., A city government planning initiative, would like to see 75 percent of D.C. commutes made via transit, bike or walking. This goal is greatly diminished by intentionally placing children over one mile from their neighborhood schools.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/in-the-district-a-transportation-planthat-boosts-transit-and-discourages-driving/2014/06/03/c7721ac8-eb17-11e3-b98c-72cef4a00499_story.html

Also see the earlier poster below

Anonymous wrote:
Did the DME document that "within a mile standard" anywhere? That isn't a standard that is used in city planning or sustainable living principles for walkability. It is smaller then that, .25-.5 miles. DME should apply the principals that the rest of the urban planning world uses for walkability and not move people that are currently within those principles just b/c their new assignment is also less then a mile.

[Anonymous]

The EPA is less than half (1/2) mile.

The APA guidance is below -- the first column is for elementary schools

Recommended Maximum School Walking Distance and Travel Time Standards

Reference Sources for Standards*
Walking Distance (Miles)
Elementary Junior High. Senior High
A. 3/4 1 1/2 2
E. 3/4 1 1/2 2
F. 1/2–3/4 1–1 1/2 1 1/2 1
G. 1/4–1/2 1-1 1/2 1 1/2–2
H. 1/2 1 1
I. 5/8 1 1/4 2
J. 1/2 1 1 1/2
K. 1/2 1 2
L.
M. 3/4 1 1/2 2

[Anonymous]

Clarification: 1/4 to 1/2 mile max or 0.25 - 0.50 of a mile maximum walking distance for elementary schools according to the American Planning Association (APA).

Revision below:

The American Planning Association states that no elementary student should have to walk more than 5/8 of a mile in any type of rural or urban setting. The ideal is no more than 1/4 - 1/2 a mile maximum as the earlier poster stated.
(https://www.planning.org/pas/at60/report175.htm)