"The majority of your children are average. And so are you."

[Anonymous]

Oh dear God, sure plenty of kids are succeeding. And plenty of kids are crumbling. In DD's small private school senior class we have three to four eating disorders, at least half a dozen kids with serious depression, binge drinkers . . . I could go on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

LOLOL how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America get into HYPS or MIT / CalTech?

That tells you right there that these kids are not average!

McLean has an average SAT score in Reading, Math and Critical Writing that is about 100 points each above the national average. That's nice, but it's not all that. It's exactly the amount of improvement that you would expect for the SES background that these kids come from. The SAT and ACT are strongly biased to favor wealthy SES students, and McLean students do about average for that group. It's great that these kids get into HYPS and MIT/Caltech, but it's not because they have natural talent. Their parents prep them obsessively. They know how to play the game and how to package their kids.

These kids aren't uber-special. They're average for who they and where they come from. They're not going to set the world on fire. They're really kind of boring people. They do everything just right. They follow the rules. I wonder if they're going to get to 40 and have a huge midlife crisis because they've been following the rules the whole time and never took a chance or did a single creative thing or a single unexpected thing in their whole lives. They don't follow their hearts. I'm not even sure they know their hearts. They experience identity foreclosure or identity diffusion at high rates, either becoming little cookie cutter versions of their parents or never committing to anything at all.

You took something that had a grain of truth in it, and then ran way too far with it. So the impression I'm left with is that you're either really resentful or you're trying very hard to validate your own life experiences, whatever they may have been. You don't know those kids that well. Some are, in fact, brilliant, and will go on to do some pretty amazing things. Others may not, but it doesn't mean their futures are bleak.

Completely agree, especially with the bolded part. I detect a whole lot of resentment in PP's post.

Here's what you detect: experience. I advise a student organization at a top 10 university. I am an alumna of that university. I am also a first generation college graduation. Thes kids that I work with are highly successful by any stretch of the imagination. 90% of them are from high SES families. However, many of them drift aimlessly. They don't have a plan, except the one their parents gave them. They haven't really formed an identity outside the one that their parents chose for them. They aren't committed to anything, other than doing what their parents tell them to do. The rate of failure to launch after graduation is pretty high, because these kids are only working to make their parents happy. These kids have all the talent in the world, but don't have the slightest idea what they want to do. They're excellent at achieving the goals set by their parents, but those goals are pointless if they aren't goals set by the kids. Parents like the parents in that article piss me off.

You "advise a student organization" at a university. Wow - I'm totaly blown over by your expertise and depth of knowledge.

Thanks for confirming that you view the world through your own prism to justify your own experience. I'm sure you can sell that to others, but I know too many kids from this area who are succeeding and forging ahead in life to buy these platitudes. Most of them are quite appreciative of the advantages they've enjoyed, although they are certainly bright enough to talk about how stressful things were in HS if they know that's what you want to hear from them.

I'm sure you know some kids that are happy and are charging forward. I don't have a problem with kids that want to go to elite schools, if the drive to do so comes from the kid. That's the kind of kid that should be applying to elite schools. The singular of data is not anecdote, though.

Don't believe me. Believe the research. On the whole these groups of kids are not doing as well as they were in the past. Their parents and schools need to start addressing those issues.

Here's what I know from working with college students:

This generation is under more stress than their parents are:
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2012/generations.aspx

Incoming college students have falling emotional health:
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/incoming-college-students-self-191135.aspx

Suicide rates are climbing among high school and college students:
http://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

A lot of that has to do with the pressure that parents put on them. Your children's emotional health is more important than their SAT scores. You should start treating it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG! Can't imagine how many parents are having fits because this lady said their snowflakes were average!

This is a funny and pathetic thread!

Yep. It's actually painful for some parents in this area to be told their kids are... average. And most still won't believe it, even after being told.

[Anonymous]

I'm not having a fit that kids are being told they are "average." I don't think the kids are super special and all ending up at Harvard and getting a nobel prize and headed for greatness. What I do know is that calling high school graduates of an area like McLean "average" is going way too far in the other direction and losing sight of the incredible privilege these kids have compared to the rest of the country! Get a grip guys. 30% of adults in this country have a bachelors degree, 10% have postgraduate education, 3.5% have professional degrees, and 1.5% have a PhD. The median income in this country for a family is ~50K. How does that compare to McLean? Of course the students on average in McLean are far better prepared and have more opportunities in life than nearly all of the rest of the country. There are hundreds of comparable communities, but those communities in general are the exception. Even a "poor" family making 150K, being house poor to send their kids to a good school and who are reliant on merit scholarships or instate tuition to send their kids to college are better nearly all of the rest of the country. The SAT scores are only 100 points above the national average? Only kids headed to college take the SAT, and many areas in the South and Midwest, kids only take the ACT. Most kids from McLean don't go to elite colleges, sure, but far more kids do than the vast majority communities in the US. Saying "there are strivers from bumfuck who go to Harvard" and "my rural town had excellent college placement" focuses on the outliers. Of course there are successful people from everywhere, but the question is how hard is it to get there?

Worries about entitlement are certainly legitimate. But the truth is, stress, pressure, drumming out creativity, and all these concerns aside, most of your kids will get a degree and most of them will work in a white collar profession that makes a living. Programmers, professors, researchers, journalists, and teachers may never get "rich", and your kid might not make oodles of money in Wall Street, Big Law, finance, or business, but chances are they will be able to live a lifestyle that supports a decent standard of living. The deck is stacked in their favor to do so.

[Anonymous]

Exactly PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not having a fit that kids are being told they are "average." I don't think the kids are super special and all ending up at Harvard and getting a nobel prize and headed for greatness. What I do know is that calling high school graduates of an area like McLean "average" is going way too far in the other direction and losing sight of the incredible privilege these kids have compared to the rest of the country! Get a grip guys. 30% of adults in this country have a bachelors degree, 10% have postgraduate education, 3.5% have professional degrees, and 1.5% have a PhD. The median income in this country for a family is ~50K. How does that compare to McLean? Of course the students on average in McLean are far better prepared and have more opportunities in life than nearly all of the rest of the country. There are hundreds of comparable communities, but those communities in general are the exception. Even a "poor" family making 150K, being house poor to send their kids to a good school and who are reliant on merit scholarships or instate tuition to send their kids to college are better nearly all of the rest of the country. The SAT scores are only 100 points above the national average? Only kids headed to college take the SAT, and many areas in the South and Midwest, kids only take the ACT. Most kids from McLean don't go to elite colleges, sure, but far more kids do than the vast majority communities in the US. Saying "there are strivers from bumfuck who go to Harvard" and "my rural town had excellent college placement" focuses on the outliers. Of course there are successful people from everywhere, but the question is how hard is it to get there?

Worries about entitlement are certainly legitimate. But the truth is, stress, pressure, drumming out creativity, and all these concerns aside, most of your kids will get a degree and most of them will work in a white collar profession that makes a living. Programmers, professors, researchers, journalists, and teachers may never get "rich", and your kid might not make oodles of money in Wall Street, Big Law, finance, or business, but chances are they will be able to live a lifestyle that supports a decent standard of living. The deck is stacked in their favor to do so.

+1. I'd love to see some of these posters care as much about the kids stuck in crappy inner-city neighborhoods or meth-lab territory in Appalachia, Maine or Kentucky as they "care" about the well-being of teens in the DC suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not having a fit that kids are being told they are "average." I don't think the kids are super special and all ending up at Harvard and getting a nobel prize and headed for greatness. What I do know is that calling high school graduates of an area like McLean "average" is going way too far in the other direction and losing sight of the incredible privilege these kids have compared to the rest of the country! Get a grip guys. 30% of adults in this country have a bachelors degree, 10% have postgraduate education, 3.5% have professional degrees, and 1.5% have a PhD. The median income in this country for a family is ~50K. How does that compare to McLean? Of course the students on average in McLean are far better prepared and have more opportunities in life than nearly all of the rest of the country. There are hundreds of comparable communities, but those communities in general are the exception. Even a "poor" family making 150K, being house poor to send their kids to a good school and who are reliant on merit scholarships or instate tuition to send their kids to college are better nearly all of the rest of the country. The SAT scores are only 100 points above the national average? Only kids headed to college take the SAT, and many areas in the South and Midwest, kids only take the ACT. Most kids from McLean don't go to elite colleges, sure, but far more kids do than the vast majority communities in the US. Saying "there are strivers from bumfuck who go to Harvard" and "my rural town had excellent college placement" focuses on the outliers. Of course there are successful people from everywhere, but the question is how hard is it to get there?

Worries about entitlement are certainly legitimate. But the truth is, stress, pressure, drumming out creativity, and all these concerns aside, most of your kids will get a degree and most of them will work in a white collar profession that makes a living. Programmers, professors, researchers, journalists, and teachers may never get "rich", and your kid might not make oodles of money in Wall Street, Big Law, finance, or business, but chances are they will be able to live a lifestyle that supports a decent standard of living. The deck is stacked in their favor to do so.

Exactly. It is BECAUSE I know that my children's environment and upbringing and intelligence are NOT average that I feel perfectly comfortable stepping back from the achievement rat race so many here seem to be engaged in. Chances are better than average that my children will be gainfully employed and able to lead comfortable, happy lives. That's all I want for them. If they want something more for themselves, well that's up to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

One of the best posts EVER on this site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

And precisely why AAP in this area has become such a monster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

One of the best posts EVER on this site.

But there is an underlying anxiety, too, a fear that success in life will depend on the acquisition of the golden Ivy ticket. What I see is people striving and pushing not just because they think their snowflakes are so special but because they fear there is only one path to success, and what if their snowflake isn't on it? I also think that so many people are so wrapped up in their children that that view them as extensions of themselves. So their children's successes and failures are their own. To me, it is all very self-involved and self-indulgent. And also unseemly. It's just downright offensive for the 5-10%ers to be moaning about their children's uncertain futures. Our kids have SO MUCH, so many advantages. Yet many of us are always jockeying for more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not having a fit that kids are being told they are "average." I don't think the kids are super special and all ending up at Harvard and getting a nobel prize and headed for greatness. What I do know is that calling high school graduates of an area like McLean "average" is going way too far in the other direction and losing sight of the incredible privilege these kids have compared to the rest of the country! Get a grip guys. 30% of adults in this country have a bachelors degree, 10% have postgraduate education, 3.5% have professional degrees, and 1.5% have a PhD. The median income in this country for a family is ~50K. How does that compare to McLean? Of course the students on average in McLean are far better prepared and have more opportunities in life than nearly all of the rest of the country. There are hundreds of comparable communities, but those communities in general are the exception. Even a "poor" family making 150K, being house poor to send their kids to a good school and who are reliant on merit scholarships or instate tuition to send their kids to college are better nearly all of the rest of the country. The SAT scores are only 100 points above the national average? Only kids headed to college take the SAT, and many areas in the South and Midwest, kids only take the ACT. Most kids from McLean don't go to elite colleges, sure, but far more kids do than the vast majority communities in the US. Saying "there are strivers from bumfuck who go to Harvard" and "my rural town had excellent college placement" focuses on the outliers. Of course there are successful people from everywhere, but the question is how hard is it to get there?

Worries about entitlement are certainly legitimate. But the truth is, stress, pressure, drumming out creativity, and all these concerns aside, most of your kids will get a degree and most of them will work in a white collar profession that makes a living. Programmers, professors, researchers, journalists, and teachers may never get "rich", and your kid might not make oodles of money in Wall Street, Big Law, finance, or business, but chances are they will be able to live a lifestyle that supports a decent standard of living. The deck is stacked in their favor to do so.

+1. I'd love to see some of these posters care as much about the kids stuck in crappy inner-city neighborhoods oir meth-lab territory in Appalachia, Maine or Kentucky as they "care" about the well-being of teens in the DC suburbs.

Please. Don't you know it's all about me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Then why strive to excel? I swear a day doesn't go by without a parent or politician decrying the 'culture of mediocrity'
..Do we accept being average or fight to be more?

You'll have to accept being average. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Intelligence and income usually goes hand in hand

My plumber makes way more money than DH and I do. He never went to college. I don't argue that he's not intelligent, because clearly he is. But he's not educated. He does not live in McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Intelligence and income usually goes hand in hand

Hmmm. Seems more like high SES and opportunity go hand in hand.

Agreed, but the intelligence generally comes first. It ruffles most people's egalitarian feathers, but smart people tend to make more money and have smarter kids.

NP. Of the people I went to college with, it was more the mouth-breathing business major types who ended up being rich. The most intelligent people I knew, while still successful, tend not to be rich. They became math professors, programmers, research scientists, etc.

+1

I know some incredibly smart people, including a man who graduated #1 in his class at Harvard. He is not rich, and neither are the other smarties I know. They don't value making money, but they do value education. They are middle class in income, but top tier in intellect.

[Anonymous]

Does not matter if it is McLean or McChicken. The fact is that US students are so far behind other countries that compared to the rest of the first world countries, our students are average. A solid world-class C.