"The majority of your children are average. And so are you."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

Are you saying that rich=brains?

Because I don't believe that for a moment.

Irrelevant.

If they are not average in income -- which they are not, compared to the nation as a whole -- then they are not average.

It gives them many advantages in applications to prestige schools in addition to whatever brains the kid has.

+1

Here's the thing, though. I don't agree with the statement that the majority of children of parents in a well-to-do community who are attending an evening seminar on college are "average." But to me that means all the hand wringing about their futures is even more ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

LOLOL how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America get into HYPS or MIT / CalTech?

That tells you right there that these kids are not average!

Er, I think you miss the PP's point, but it is safe to say you do not have a background in statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

LOLOL how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America get into HYPS or MIT / CalTech?

That tells you right there that these kids are not average!

McLean has an average SAT score in Reading, Math and Critical Writing that is about 100 points each above the national average. That's nice, but it's not all that. It's exactly the amount of improvement that you would expect for the SES background that these kids come from. The SAT and ACT are strongly biased to favor wealthy SES students, and McLean students do about average for that group. It's great that these kids get into HYPS and MIT/Caltech, but it's not because they have natural talent. Their parents prep them obsessively. They know how to play the game and how to package their kids.

These kids aren't uber-special. They're average for who they and where they come from. They're not going to set the world on fire. They're really kind of boring people. They do everything just right. They follow the rules. I wonder if they're going to get to 40 and have a huge midlife crisis because they've been following the rules the whole time and never took a chance or did a single creative thing or a single unexpected thing in their whole lives. They don't follow their hearts. I'm not even sure they know their hearts. They experience identity foreclosure or identity diffusion at high rates, either becoming little cookie cutter versions of their parents or never committing to anything at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

LOLOL how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America get into HYPS or MIT / CalTech?

That tells you right there that these kids are not average!

Er, I think you miss the PP's point, but it is safe to say you do not have a background in statistics.

Um, yes, you clearly missed my point. But to answer your question, "how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America gets into HYPS or MIT/CalTech?"

ABOUT THE SAME NUMBER OF KIDS AS GET INTO FROM MCLEAN HIGH SCHOOL. Does that make it easier for you to understand? Or do you a need a white board and pictures to grasp the concept?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, the thing is, I'm not. Neither is DH. So should we disregard?

Yes, you and your above average husband should disregard the accumulating evidence of the damaging effects an achievement-at-all-costs lifestyle and carry on.

Not what I said, and not what the quote said. The quote said you're average and your kids are too. But I'm not, and from the available data thus far, my kids aren't either. I wasn't raised in an "achievement-at-all-costs" environment, but my parents did expect me to achieve according to my abilities. (They knew I could get A's, so I'd better do the homework and get A's. Got grounded when I blew things off and got a C. I think that's fair.) I hate living in this area, largely because people are so superficial and snobby. But we're here, and my kids are of more than average ability. So I expect them to achieve up to their ability. Now, that doesn't mean that they have to be math kids if they hate it and love something else. But the C ain't gonna fly either, unless they really can't do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, the thing is, I'm not. Neither is DH. So should we disregard?

Yes, you and your above average husband should disregard the accumulating evidence of the damaging effects an achievement-at-all-costs lifestyle and carry on.

Not what I said, and not what the quote said. The quote said you're average and your kids are too. But I'm not, and from the available data thus far, my kids aren't either. I wasn't raised in an "achievement-at-all-costs" environment, but my parents did expect me to achieve according to my abilities. (They knew I could get A's, so I'd better do the homework and get A's. Got grounded when I blew things off and got a C. I think that's fair.) I hate living in this area, largely because people are so superficial and snobby. But we're here, and my kids are of more than average ability. So I expect them to achieve up to their ability. Now, that doesn't mean that they have to be math kids if they hate it and love something else. But the C ain't gonna fly either, unless they really can't do better.

I'm not the PP to whom you're responding, but it seems like you are willfully missing the point of the quote. She didn't say, "You are ALL average and your kids are ALL average." She said "the majority" of your kids are average, and [implicitly] the "majority" of parents are. Which is true. In McLean. In Forest Hills. In Cleveland Park. In Langley. In Arlington. In Potomac. In Bethesda. In Great Falls. In Westchester. In Naperville. In Beverly Hills. "The majority" of kids don't go to Harvard. "The majority" of kids go to schools like JMU. The PTA pres is just trying to say, get with reality and deal with it. If you are indeed a double-Harvard grad, bully for you. Maybe your kid will also attend. Maybe s/he won't. But most people aren't Harvard grads. And most of their kids aren't either. That's it.

[Anonymous]

My son is 2e, gifted yet learning disabled. He's not average by any stretch of the imagination. His sister is average, thank goodness - so much easier to parent! Which one will achieve the most in academia? It will be interesting to see. I am raising them to be hard-working, resilient and content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

LOLOL how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America get into HYPS or MIT / CalTech?

That tells you right there that these kids are not average!

Er, I think you miss the PP's point, but it is safe to say you do not have a background in statistics.

Um, yes, you clearly missed my point. But to answer your question, "how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America gets into HYPS or MIT/CalTech?"

ABOUT THE SAME NUMBER OF KIDS AS GET INTO FROM MCLEAN HIGH SCHOOL. Does that make it easier for you to understand? Or do you a need a white board and pictures to grasp the concept?

I don't believe you.

Prove it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

LOLOL how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America get into HYPS or MIT / CalTech?

That tells you right there that these kids are not average!

McLean has an average SAT score in Reading, Math and Critical Writing that is about 100 points each above the national average. That's nice, but it's not all that. It's exactly the amount of improvement that you would expect for the SES background that these kids come from. The SAT and ACT are strongly biased to favor wealthy SES students, and McLean students do about average for that group. It's great that these kids get into HYPS and MIT/Caltech, but it's not because they have natural talent. Their parents prep them obsessively. They know how to play the game and how to package their kids.

These kids aren't uber-special. They're average for who they and where they come from. They're not going to set the world on fire. They're really kind of boring people. They do everything just right. They follow the rules. I wonder if they're going to get to 40 and have a huge midlife crisis because they've been following the rules the whole time and never took a chance or did a single creative thing or a single unexpected thing in their whole lives. They don't follow their hearts. I'm not even sure they know their hearts. They experience identity foreclosure or identity diffusion at high rates, either becoming little cookie cutter versions of their parents or never committing to anything at all.

You took something that had a grain of truth in it, and then ran way too far with it. So the impression I'm left with is that you're either really resentful or you're trying very hard to validate your own life experiences, whatever they may have been. You don't know those kids that well. Some are, in fact, brilliant, and will go on to do some pretty amazing things. Others may not, but it doesn't mean their futures are bleak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, the thing is, I'm not. Neither is DH. So should we disregard?

Yes, you and your above average husband should disregard the accumulating evidence of the damaging effects an achievement-at-all-costs lifestyle and carry on.

Not what I said, and not what the quote said. The quote said you're average and your kids are too. But I'm not, and from the available data thus far, my kids aren't either. I wasn't raised in an "achievement-at-all-costs" environment, but my parents did expect me to achieve according to my abilities. (They knew I could get A's, so I'd better do the homework and get A's. Got grounded when I blew things off and got a C. I think that's fair.) I hate living in this area, largely because people are so superficial and snobby. But we're here, and my kids are of more than average ability. So I expect them to achieve up to their ability. Now, that doesn't mean that they have to be math kids if they hate it and love something else. But the C ain't gonna fly either, unless they really can't do better.

I'm not the PP to whom you're responding, but it seems like you are willfully missing the point of the quote. She didn't say, "You are ALL average and your kids are ALL average." She said "the majority" of your kids are average, and [implicitly] the "majority" of parents are. Which is true. In McLean. In Forest Hills. In Cleveland Park. In Langley. In Arlington. In Potomac. In Bethesda. In Great Falls. In Westchester. In Naperville. In Beverly Hills. "The majority" of kids don't go to Harvard. "The majority" of kids go to schools like JMU. The PTA pres is just trying to say, get with reality and deal with it. If you are indeed a double-Harvard grad, bully for you. Maybe your kid will also attend. Maybe s/he won't. But most people aren't Harvard grads. And most of their kids aren't either. That's it.

The majority of the kids at McLean HS are NOT "average" compared to the rest of the country. That simple is not true. The majority of the kids at McLean do not get into HYPS, but that does not mean they are "average".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, the thing is, I'm not. Neither is DH. So should we disregard?

Yes, you and your above average husband should disregard the accumulating evidence of the damaging effects an achievement-at-all-costs lifestyle and carry on.

Not what I said, and not what the quote said. The quote said you're average and your kids are too. But I'm not, and from the available data thus far, my kids aren't either. I wasn't raised in an "achievement-at-all-costs" environment, but my parents did expect me to achieve according to my abilities. (They knew I could get A's, so I'd better do the homework and get A's. Got grounded when I blew things off and got a C. I think that's fair.) I hate living in this area, largely because people are so superficial and snobby. But we're here, and my kids are of more than average ability. So I expect them to achieve up to their ability. Now, that doesn't mean that they have to be math kids if they hate it and love something else. But the C ain't gonna fly either, unless they really can't do better.

I'm not the PP to whom you're responding, but it seems like you are willfully missing the point of the quote. She didn't say, "You are ALL average and your kids are ALL average." She said "the majority" of your kids are average, and [implicitly] the "majority" of parents are. Which is true. In McLean. In Forest Hills. In Cleveland Park. In Langley. In Arlington. In Potomac. In Bethesda. In Great Falls. In Westchester. In Naperville. In Beverly Hills. "The majority" of kids don't go to Harvard. "The majority" of kids go to schools like JMU. The PTA pres is just trying to say, get with reality and deal with it. If you are indeed a double-Harvard grad, bully for you. Maybe your kid will also attend. Maybe s/he won't. But most people aren't Harvard grads. And most of their kids aren't either. That's it.

Not disagreeing with the premise. My initial post was "but I'm not, my DH is not, and it looks like our kids aren't either". This applies to a LOT of people around here. Not the majority, sure, but a big minority. So, what of us? How do you balance these pressures when your kid is clearly far above average, but you still don't want to kill them with stress/expectations. PP flamed me of course, because that's what people on DCUM like to do, but the point stands.

[Anonymous]

I would say I'm below average. No one would call me smart. But I am fine with that

[Anonymous]

LOVE IT!

And I agree.

- Magnet mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

LOLOL how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America get into HYPS or MIT / CalTech?

That tells you right there that these kids are not average!

Er, I think you miss the PP's point, but it is safe to say you do not have a background in statistics.

Um, yes, you clearly missed my point. But to answer your question, "how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America gets into HYPS or MIT/CalTech?"

ABOUT THE SAME NUMBER OF KIDS AS GET INTO FROM MCLEAN HIGH SCHOOL. Does that make it easier for you to understand? Or do you a need a white board and pictures to grasp the concept?

I don't believe you.

Prove it.

Well, I specifically know the admits from all Washington area schools from one of the universities mentioned above, and I can tell you that we have between 0-2 admits from all of the schools in the DMV, including McLean and Langley. They don't have any more admits than the mediocre/so-so schools in the area. There are a few more admits from TJ and some of the sought-after privates, but not many. Believe what you will, it makes no difference to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the people who lives in McLean are NOT average. That statement is stupid.

(No, I don't live there.)

I take it that you were one of those shocked, appalled, gasping parents in the crowd then? Yes, the majority of people who live in McLean (and elsewhere) are average. As stunning as this may seem, about 1-2 of all of the brilliant, awesome, perfect kids from McLean High School will get into Harvard each year. 1-3 more (or the same ones, more likely) will get into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Columbia, and CalTech. A few more than that will get into Penn, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Georgetown. That leaves . . . well, you can do the math. Almost EVERYONE ELSE. The conclusion here is that all of these awesome, amazing, brilliant straight A kids . . . actually aren't that special. This shouldn't be that stunning of a revelation.

Those of you that went to Harvard, maybe your kids will get in. But they probably won't.

This, of course, doesn't make them idiots. And it doesn't mean they are destined for an unhappy life. But this entitled, blind, unrealistic attitude of seemingly every parent in this area that "my kid is clearly destined for greatness" is precisely what the PTA pres in the article is railing against.

LOLOL how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America get into HYPS or MIT / CalTech?

That tells you right there that these kids are not average!

Er, I think you miss the PP's point, but it is safe to say you do not have a background in statistics.

Um, yes, you clearly missed my point. But to answer your question, "how many kids at an AVERAGE high school in America gets into HYPS or MIT/CalTech?"

ABOUT THE SAME NUMBER OF KIDS AS GET INTO FROM MCLEAN HIGH SCHOOL. Does that make it easier for you to understand? Or do you a need a white board and pictures to grasp the concept?

Not really. More kids get into those schools from Langley than from McLean, and more will get in from McLean than from Marshall, and more I'll get in from Marshall than from Falls Church, with only Falls Church being close to the average HS in the country. It doesn't mean that a lot will end up at such schools compared to the number who will head off to state schools, and some may be chasing their tails and making themselves miserable in the process, but some schools definitely have more of a track record than others. Of course, locally, TJ is the big feeder to those schools, not the neighborhood schools.