Longfellow MS AAP overcrowding plans?

[Anonymous]

Based on posts here and at school committee meetings, I know that Cooper is reluctant to have AAP at Cooper. Would Cooper/Langley, in general, be more open to redistricting if it means some of the current Cooper/Langley district goes elsewhere (from the far end) and some of the closer neighborhoods move into the Cooper/Langley district? Say Great Falls and Forestville go to Herndon HS (currently under capacity and they could add a 10 room modular and trailers for the rest) and the rest of Franklin Sherman and Chesterbrook come in? What if both result in the same number of additional children attending Cooper? Would that go over better than bringing the Cooper AAP students from Longfellow and Kilmer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By the way, I hate to tell you this, but "AAP" IS kind of the norm in this area -- much as you might want to avoid it, if your child is at Cooper headed to Langley -- or almost anywhere around here, you're surrounded by very smart, driven, hyper competitive kids and parents. But I guess it will be super relaxed and more positive at Langley as long as there are no "AAP" kids? Phew.

Thanks for the "advice," but I already have two kids at Langley, both very involved in Honors and AP classes and doing great, the (BIG) difference being these classes are open to all. There is no program in high school that is restricted to a certain group. In addition, no one ever asks, cares, or remembers who was in AAP at this point. My kids were not in AAP (then GT), and yet here they are excelling in AP classes. Hmm. Amazing that they, like so many other kids, didn't need AAP at all to be successful in high school.

The reason I and other parents would like our kids' middle school to be an "AAP-free zone," is because our children have already been divided into these (falsely labeled) groups during elementary school. Enough already.

And AAP should never be considered the "norm". I know FCPS likes to tout all the "advanced" students they have in the area, but the fact remains if they would tighten up AAP admittance criteria, they would have far fewer and the program wouldn't be causing the overcrowding we see today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you about facilities not being the most important reflection of quality, but you chimed in to agree with a poster who was voicing similar antagonism to AAP but advocating for the opposite of the outcome you actually want. That's the disconnect I was trying to point out. That prior poster wants the AAP students to leave Longfellow and come to Cooper, while you don't want them at Cooper.

I think it's interesting that you so unabashedly oppose your child attending school with anyone in aap. Why does that make you so uncomfortable? Do you think that's the real world for your child to be insulated from those students? Do you plan to send your child to a HS that does not allow kids to take too many APs or otherwise be allowed to be more accelerated than your child? Is this really good for your child or just about your issues?

Please see 6:56. I believe your questions are answered there. I have no problem with kids taking APs, as long as these classes are open to all. In high school, they are. Completely different environment, as the playing field is level from the get-go.

[Anonymous]

I think it is time to what the HS do in MS. Open enrollment for Honors. My children went to Longfellow and there was very little to distinguish between the AAP and Honors classes in terms of curriculum and in terms of caliber of students. It would make classes more uniformly the same size; it would decrease the "us vs them"; it would increase morale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you about facilities not being the most important reflection of quality, but you chimed in to agree with a poster who was voicing similar antagonism to AAP but advocating for the opposite of the outcome you actually want. That's the disconnect I was trying to point out. That prior poster wants the AAP students to leave Longfellow and come to Cooper, while you don't want them at Cooper.

I think it's interesting that you so unabashedly oppose your child attending school with anyone in aap. Why does that make you so uncomfortable? Do you think that's the real world for your child to be insulated from those students? Do you plan to send your child to a HS that does not allow kids to take too many APs or otherwise be allowed to be more accelerated than your child? Is this really good for your child or just about your issues?

Please see 6:56. I believe your questions are answered there. I have no problem with kids taking APs, as long as these classes are open to all. In high school, they are. Completely different environment, as the playing field is level from the get-go.

My point is that the only difference is a label that drives YOU crazy -- same smart kids, both AAP & GE, it's just so gotten so under your skin that your kids didn't have that label? So crazy that you will fight to keep "those kids" -- the very same ones that will attend high school with your children -- out of the entire school? That is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, I hate to tell you this, but "AAP" IS kind of the norm in this area -- much as you might want to avoid it, if your child is at Cooper headed to Langley -- or almost anywhere around here, you're surrounded by very smart, driven, hyper competitive kids and parents. But I guess it will be super relaxed and more positive at Langley as long as there are no "AAP" kids? Phew.

Thanks for the "advice," but I already have two kids at Langley, both very involved in Honors and AP classes and doing great, the (BIG) difference being these classes are open to all. There is no program in high school that is restricted to a certain group. In addition, no one ever asks, cares, or remembers who was in AAP at this point. My kids were not in AAP (then GT), and yet here they are excelling in AP classes. Hmm. Amazing that they, like so many other kids, didn't need AAP at all to be successful in high school.

The reason I and other parents would like our kids' middle school to be an "AAP-free zone," is because our children have already been divided into these (falsely labeled) groups during elementary school. Enough already.

And AAP should never be considered the "norm". I know FCPS likes to tout all the "advanced" students they have in the area, but the fact remains if they would tighten up AAP admittance criteria, they would have far fewer and the program wouldn't be causing the overcrowding we see today.

So basically you think the entire school assignment system should revolve around what suits your particular two children -- and you? They should be able to have a custom designed MS with no one allowed to take any different classes than they are allowed to take? Maybe you could do a better job as a parent supporting them if you weren't so hung up on the AAP issue and still so stuck on insisting that these labels are false, etc. If Langley told you they were no longer going to allow kids who needed AP & honors classes to attend Langley because it falsely labels some kids as "smart" and they want the whole school to be a self-esteem booster for regular kids, would that seem fair to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you about facilities not being the most important reflection of quality, but you chimed in to agree with a poster who was voicing similar antagonism to AAP but advocating for the opposite of the outcome you actually want. That's the disconnect I was trying to point out. That prior poster wants the AAP students to leave Longfellow and come to Cooper, while you don't want them at Cooper.

I think it's interesting that you so unabashedly oppose your child attending school with anyone in aap. Why does that make you so uncomfortable? Do you think that's the real world for your child to be insulated from those students? Do you plan to send your child to a HS that does not allow kids to take too many APs or otherwise be allowed to be more accelerated than your child? Is this really good for your child or just about your issues?

Please see 6:56. I believe your questions are answered there. I have no problem with kids taking APs, as long as these classes are open to all. In high school, they are. Completely different environment, as the playing field is level from the get-go.

My point is that the only difference is a label that drives YOU crazy -- same smart kids, both AAP & GE, it's just so gotten so under your skin that your kids didn't have that label? So crazy that you will fight to keep "those kids" -- the very same ones that will attend high school with your children -- out of the entire school? That is ridiculous.

It is a label that bothers many parents, not just me. And frankly, if the shoe were on the other foot, I have no doubt that you and other AAP parents would feel the same way. That is, if your children were in Gen Ed as opposed to AAP, you would be sick to death of the labeling. If AAP classes were open to all, as AP is in high school, I would have no problem with the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you about facilities not being the most important reflection of quality, but you chimed in to agree with a poster who was voicing similar antagonism to AAP but advocating for the opposite of the outcome you actually want. That's the disconnect I was trying to point out. That prior poster wants the AAP students to leave Longfellow and come to Cooper, while you don't want them at Cooper.

I think it's interesting that you so unabashedly oppose your child attending school with anyone in aap. Why does that make you so uncomfortable? Do you think that's the real world for your child to be insulated from those students? Do you plan to send your child to a HS that does not allow kids to take too many APs or otherwise be allowed to be more accelerated than your child? Is this really good for your child or just about your issues?

Please see 6:56. I believe your questions are answered there. I have no problem with kids taking APs, as long as these classes are open to all. In high school, they are. Completely different environment, as the playing field is level from the get-go.

My point is that the only difference is a label that drives YOU crazy -- same smart kids, both AAP & GE, it's just so gotten so under your skin that your kids didn't have that label? So crazy that you will fight to keep "those kids" -- the very same ones that will attend high school with your children -- out of the entire school? That is ridiculous.

Why do you think the only difference is a label? PP is expressing her preference for a school in which every student is welcome in every classroom and not given the message that certain classes, hallways, or peers are off-limits because they didn't score high enough on a test given to them when they were in second or third grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, I hate to tell you this, but "AAP" IS kind of the norm in this area -- much as you might want to avoid it, if your child is at Cooper headed to Langley -- or almost anywhere around here, you're surrounded by very smart, driven, hyper competitive kids and parents. But I guess it will be super relaxed and more positive at Langley as long as there are no "AAP" kids? Phew.

Thanks for the "advice," but I already have two kids at Langley, both very involved in Honors and AP classes and doing great, the (BIG) difference being these classes are open to all. There is no program in high school that is restricted to a certain group. In addition, no one ever asks, cares, or remembers who was in AAP at this point. My kids were not in AAP (then GT), and yet here they are excelling in AP classes. Hmm. Amazing that they, like so many other kids, didn't need AAP at all to be successful in high school.

The reason I and other parents would like our kids' middle school to be an "AAP-free zone," is because our children have already been divided into these (falsely labeled) groups during elementary school. Enough already.

And AAP should never be considered the "norm". I know FCPS likes to tout all the "advanced" students they have in the area, but the fact remains if they would tighten up AAP admittance criteria, they would have far fewer and the program wouldn't be causing the overcrowding we see today.

So basically you think the entire school assignment system should revolve around what suits your particular two children -- and you? They should be able to have a custom designed MS with no one allowed to take any different classes than they are allowed to take? Maybe you could do a better job as a parent supporting them if you weren't so hung up on the AAP issue and still so stuck on insisting that these labels are false, etc. If Langley told you they were no longer going to allow kids who needed AP & honors classes to attend Langley because it falsely labels some kids as "smart" and they want the whole school to be a self-esteem booster for regular kids, would that seem fair to you?

You know, you can spin this any way you want (and clearly, you are trying), but I and others have made the point over and over that if AAP was open TO ALL, it would lose its divisiveness entirely and the labeling would be meaningless. Frankly, it already is as there are so many kids in the program. I'm not sure where you got the bolded statement above, as there are plenty of parents who feel the same way I do. I'm certainly not alone in this. And your final question is ridiculous as AP and honors are open to ALL, not some select group. If children are eager and capable of doing the work, there is no reason an advanced curriculum shouldn't be offered, to anyone in any school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People don't seem to realize that opening an AAP center at Cooper would crowd Cooper overnight, leaving more kids in trailers, etc since they don't have the capacity. The school is pretty run down as is and there are no plans for any new renovations anytime soon. Plus, it would take time for Cooper to reach Longfellow in terms of AAP rigor and extracurricular since they currently don't have those teachers in place.

I know certain school board members are chomping at the bit for this to happen, but they shouldn't just force it willy nilly and hope for the best.

On paper the AAP at Cooper is an obvious solution. Does it make sense to bus the Great Falls area students to Kilmer or Churchill Rd kids that would walk to Cooper to Longfellow? No. Cooper has a modular building - ie interconnected trailers as part of that capacity number. Permanent trailer solution attached to an unrenovated building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, I hate to tell you this, but "AAP" IS kind of the norm in this area -- much as you might want to avoid it, if your child is at Cooper headed to Langley -- or almost anywhere around here, you're surrounded by very smart, driven, hyper competitive kids and parents. But I guess it will be super relaxed and more positive at Langley as long as there are no "AAP" kids? Phew.

Thanks for the "advice," but I already have two kids at Langley, both very involved in Honors and AP classes and doing great, the (BIG) difference being these classes are open to all. There is no program in high school that is restricted to a certain group. In addition, no one ever asks, cares, or remembers who was in AAP at this point. My kids were not in AAP (then GT), and yet here they are excelling in AP classes. Hmm. Amazing that they, like so many other kids, didn't need AAP at all to be successful in high school.

The reason I and other parents would like our kids' middle school to be an "AAP-free zone," is because our children have already been divided into these (falsely labeled) groups during elementary school. Enough already.

And AAP should never be considered the "norm". I know FCPS likes to tout all the "advanced" students they have in the area, but the fact remains if they would tighten up AAP admittance criteria, they would have far fewer and the program wouldn't be causing the overcrowding we see today.

So basically you think the entire school assignment system should revolve around what suits your particular two children -- and you? They should be able to have a custom designed MS with no one allowed to take any different classes than they are allowed to take? Maybe you could do a better job as a parent supporting them if you weren't so hung up on the AAP issue and still so stuck on insisting that these labels are false, etc. If Langley told you they were no longer going to allow kids who needed AP & honors classes to attend Langley because it falsely labels some kids as "smart" and they want the whole school to be a self-esteem booster for regular kids, would that seem fair to you?

You know, you can spin this any way you want (and clearly, you are trying), but I and others have made the point over and over that if AAP was open TO ALL, it would lose its divisiveness entirely and the labeling would be meaningless. Frankly, it already is as there are so many kids in the program. I'm not sure where you got the bolded statement above, as there are plenty of parents who feel the same way I do. I'm certainly not alone in this. And your final question is ridiculous as AP and honors are open to ALL, not some select group. If children are eager and capable of doing the work, there is no reason an advanced curriculum shouldn't be offered, to anyone in any school.

You're right, it it would lose its divisiveness and the labeling would be meaningless, as would the program itself. Obviously you disagree with or don't understand the basic premise of the program, and refuse to buy into the idea that there might be a sound and even important educational purpose for allowing kids who need this acceleration to be placed together with similarly able peers. I know lots of people don't want to acknowledge its validity, and there's virtually nothing that will convince you otherwise. But thankfully FCPS, at least for now, is still basing its program on sound educational policy and research, and not the preferences of Cooper moms who can't stand to be exposed to an AAP kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you about facilities not being the most important reflection of quality, but you chimed in to agree with a poster who was voicing similar antagonism to AAP but advocating for the opposite of the outcome you actually want. That's the disconnect I was trying to point out. That prior poster wants the AAP students to leave Longfellow and come to Cooper, while you don't want them at Cooper.

I think it's interesting that you so unabashedly oppose your child attending school with anyone in aap. Why does that make you so uncomfortable? Do you think that's the real world for your child to be insulated from those students? Do you plan to send your child to a HS that does not allow kids to take too many APs or otherwise be allowed to be more accelerated than your child? Is this really good for your child or just about your issues?

Please see 6:56. I believe your questions are answered there. I have no problem with kids taking APs, as long as these classes are open to all. In high school, they are. Completely different environment, as the playing field is level from the get-go.

My point is that the only difference is a label that drives YOU crazy -- same smart kids, both AAP & GE, it's just so gotten so under your skin that your kids didn't have that label? So crazy that you will fight to keep "those kids" -- the very same ones that will attend high school with your children -- out of the entire school? That is ridiculous.

It is a label that bothers many parents, not just me. And frankly, if the shoe were on the other foot, I have no doubt that you and other AAP parents would feel the same way. That is, if your children were in Gen Ed as opposed to AAP, you would be sick to death of the labeling. If AAP classes were open to all, as AP is in high school, I would have no problem with the program.

See 8:13 post. Also, I have kids in both programs. It's my job as a parent to make sure that my children have the best & most appropriate education; that is different for different kids. Simple as that. I would not want to be in a public school system that did not offer programs needed by lots of different kinds of learners. It's too bad that virtually everyone in this debate seems to only be looking out for #1.

[Anonymous]

Math in Middle Schools does not seem to be "watered down" since non AAP identified students are mixed with AAP identified students. I see no reason to separate the Honors and AAP classes in MS for the other 3 core subjects.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible for ANYONE on this thread to stay on topic? Take the AAP bashing elsewhere-it's not going away, at least not overnight.

The issue, just to remind everyone, is what to do vis a vis Cooper becoming an AAP center (ill equipped IMO) and what to do about the growing populations at Kilmer and Longfellow.

I am ALL for them raising AAP entry standards and even reassessing 6th graders before they enter MS if need be. Don't know why they went back to 132 benchmark this year on each subtest when in the past you've had to have that number as a COMPOSITE score to make it into the screening pool. It would seem they would want to tighten the pool, not make it full of even more students plus appeals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, I hate to tell you this, but "AAP" IS kind of the norm in this area -- much as you might want to avoid it, if your child is at Cooper headed to Langley -- or almost anywhere around here, you're surrounded by very smart, driven, hyper competitive kids and parents. But I guess it will be super relaxed and more positive at Langley as long as there are no "AAP" kids? Phew.

Thanks for the "advice," but I already have two kids at Langley, both very involved in Honors and AP classes and doing great, the (BIG) difference being these classes are open to all. There is no program in high school that is restricted to a certain group. In addition, no one ever asks, cares, or remembers who was in AAP at this point. My kids were not in AAP (then GT), and yet here they are excelling in AP classes. Hmm. Amazing that they, like so many other kids, didn't need AAP at all to be successful in high school.

The reason I and other parents would like our kids' middle school to be an "AAP-free zone," is because our children have already been divided into these (falsely labeled) groups during elementary school. Enough already.

And AAP should never be considered the "norm". I know FCPS likes to tout all the "advanced" students they have in the area, but the fact remains if they would tighten up AAP admittance criteria, they would have far fewer and the program wouldn't be causing the overcrowding we see today.

So basically you think the entire school assignment system should revolve around what suits your particular two children -- and you? They should be able to have a custom designed MS with no one allowed to take any different classes than they are allowed to take? Maybe you could do a better job as a parent supporting them if you weren't so hung up on the AAP issue and still so stuck on insisting that these labels are false, etc. If Langley told you they were no longer going to allow kids who needed AP & honors classes to attend Langley because it falsely labels some kids as "smart" and they want the whole school to be a self-esteem booster for regular kids, would that seem fair to you?

You know, you can spin this any way you want (and clearly, you are trying), but I and others have made the point over and over that if AAP was open TO ALL, it would lose its divisiveness entirely and the labeling would be meaningless. Frankly, it already is as there are so many kids in the program. I'm not sure where you got the bolded statement above, as there are plenty of parents who feel the same way I do. I'm certainly not alone in this. And your final question is ridiculous as AP and honors are open to ALL, not some select group. If children are eager and capable of doing the work, there is no reason an advanced curriculum shouldn't be offered, to anyone in any school.

You're right, it it would lose its divisiveness and the labeling would be meaningless, as would the program itself. Obviously you disagree with or don't understand the basic premise of the program, and refuse to buy into the idea that there might be a sound and even important educational purpose for allowing kids who need this acceleration to be placed together with similarly able peers. I know lots of people don't want to acknowledge its validity, and there's virtually nothing that will convince you otherwise. But thankfully FCPS, at least for now, is still basing its program on sound educational policy and research, and not the preferences of Cooper moms who can't stand to be exposed to an AAP kid.

I don't think anyone disagrees that some kids need acceleration and to be placed together with similarly "gifted" peers. But there's a big difference between "need" and "want," and today's AAP program is filled with too many wannabees. I don't think many people in FCPS would have a problem with a program that helped those truly gifted kids who need it, but the tracking system for kids who have tested or performed well at 8 that it's become today is unacceptable. The fact that the whole school system turns itself upside down for what should be a minority, dividing communities and creating an academic underclass is ridiculous.

It's also worth noting that FCPS specifically does not label any kids AAP. FCPS labels services. Parents label kids. Done right, every school should be able to offer AAP services I-IV. Given the supposedly high concentrations of these special kids, particularly in places like McLean and Vienna, what you probably DON'T need are centers. Offer AAP services at all middle and elementary schools and be done with it.