pledge of allegiance in schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"Pumpkins, remember what Mummy told you: some of your friends and teachers, OK probably 90% of the people at your school, may say something about God, and may think you should be respectful and thankful that you live in this country. But my precious shouldn't have to go along with that because Mummy knows more about all of this than they do! So you show them, Snowflake. If you hear your friends chanting something to the flag, you refuse to say the word "God!" Got that???!!! I know you don't understand all of this, but you do this for Mummy, OK?"

How about this:

"Mommy, I learned something new in school, wanna hear?"

"Of course, love"

"I pwedge awegiance . . . one nation, under God, . . . "

"Wow! You must have worked hard to learn that, it's got a LOT of words! I learned it at school, although not until I was bigger than you. I learned it in Kindergarten. Do you want to hear me say it?"

"Sure!"

"I pledge . . . one nation (pause) with liberty and justice for all."

"You didn't say "under God""

"No, I didn't, I left those words out."

"Why Mommy?"

"Well, remember how we talked about how different people believe different things? I don't believe that there is a God. I think he's a nice story, but I don't think we're "under God", so I choose not to say those words. Some people choose to say them, and some people don't. You can choose whichever you want."

"I like to say them."

"Saying them is a good choice too. If you ever decide not to say them, make sure you pause like I did so that the people who do say them can catch up. Then you can finish with your friends."

Just curious, when you have to explain death, do you just say "and when you die, you become worm food?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists like you make me want to vomit - you disgust me that you are against your child even mentioning the word god.

How unfortunate that you want to take away her ability to have options and chose for herself what she believes when she is older. You are a terrible parent.

PS - THANK YOU for living in DC - THANK YOU! One less atheist left wing loon in my town.

So, forcing my child to recite an oath that references a God, when they're too young to make sense of it preserves their "ability to have options and choose for himself?"

Yet sheltering them from the dreaded word "God", by making sure they never hear it or learn that other people respect the notion, doesn't give them much option either. Does it?

You're right, and if someone on this thread was proposing doing that, I'd be horrified.

The only people on this thread that I see who actually are trying to protect their children from knowing what others believe, are those people who are horrified that some people tell their kids the word "under God" are optional, or that they belong at home or at church.

It seems as though the Christians are the ones trying to protect their kids from knowing that agnosticism or atheism is an option, not the other way around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Just curious, when you have to explain death, do you just say "and when you die, you become worm food?"

No, when my grandmother died when my son was 4, I told my child what I believe which is that her consciousness no longer existed, that she couldn't feel or think any more. I also told him that my mother (his grandmother) believed something different, that her consciousness, which is also called a soul, had left her body and gone to be with God in a place called Heaven. I told him it was up to him what to believe. He decided we were both wrong, and that Granny had been reincarnated. A few years later we lost another loved one, and this time he found comfort in the idea of Heaven and imagined her to be there. Both times I encouraged him to find a truth that worked for him.

I also told him that while Grandma and I disagreed about what had happened to Granny's consciousness, we both agreed that her consciousness was no longer in her body, and that she no longer needed it, and that's why we had it cremated and the ashes scattered.

We have talked about how bodies decompose and act as nutrients for the earth, but mostly in connection with pets such as the Beta fish we buried in the back yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yet sheltering them from the dreaded word "God", by making sure they never hear it or learn that other people respect the notion, doesn't give them much option either. Does it?

I don't want my children to recite the pledge because it has a religious component, and because of this religious component, I don't feel that it should be a part of the everyday school routine. This does not mean that I am sheltering them from the word God, or making sure they never hear it or learn that other people respect the notion. It just means that I want these things to happen within our family and/or our church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just curious, when you have to explain death, do you just say "and when you die, you become worm food?"

No, when my grandmother died when my son was 4, I told my child what I believe which is that her consciousness no longer existed, that she couldn't feel or think any more. I also told him that my mother (his grandmother) believed something different, that her consciousness, which is also called a soul, had left her body and gone to be with God in a place called Heaven. I told him it was up to him what to believe. He decided we were both wrong, and that Granny had been reincarnated. A few years later we lost another loved one, and this time he found comfort in the idea of Heaven and imagined her to be there. Both times I encouraged him to find a truth that worked for him.

I also told him that while Grandma and I disagreed about what had happened to Granny's consciousness, we both agreed that her consciousness was no longer in her body, and that she no longer needed it, and that's why we had it cremated and the ashes scattered.

We have talked about how bodies decompose and act as nutrients for the earth, but mostly in connection with pets such as the Beta fish we buried in the back yard.

I think you have a great approach, and that you handled these things well.

[Anonymous]

NP here. I'm sure this thread has gone off the rails by page 7, but your child doesn't have to say the pledge if you don't want to. As long as they are not disruptive and stand silently and respectfully they can't be forced to do so. My family immigrated to the US in the 70s and I have never said the pledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I'm sure this thread has gone off the rails by page 7, but your child doesn't have to say the pledge if you don't want to. As long as they are not disruptive and stand silently and respectfully they can't be forced to do so. My family immigrated to the US in the 70s and I have never said the pledge.

Great. So nice to have you here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think it's sad to remove it because of the tradition. Also, for those who do believe in God, it kinda feels like literally turning your back on him. Like we're removing JUST the God part of the pledge. At least can we make any other changes while we're at it? Make it easier to understand to the common person now?

Please read the history of "under God" in the pledge.

And, to the vomiting/disgusted PP: please read your holy book. You're making yourself and the followers of your religion look bad.

"you holy book"????

LEFT - WING - LOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yet sheltering them from the dreaded word "God", by making sure they never hear it or learn that other people respect the notion, doesn't give them much option either. Does it?

I don't want my children to recite the pledge because it has a religious component, and because of this religious component, I don't feel that it should be a part of the everyday school routine. This does not mean that I am sheltering them from the word God, or making sure they never hear it or learn that other people respect the notion. It just means that I want these things to happen within our family and/or our church.

Then if you, like so many other left wing loons are so against saying the word "god" in school, then I suppose you are all against the use of any DC or federal funding for kids to go to any charter or parochial schools that make any mention of the word god? Doesn't that violate your "values?" (I wonder where those values come from? wicca? whatever your mood hence your insane ideas you post on DCUMs that make no sense)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yet sheltering them from the dreaded word "God", by making sure they never hear it or learn that other people respect the notion, doesn't give them much option either. Does it?

I don't want my children to recite the pledge because it has a religious component, and because of this religious component, I don't feel that it should be a part of the everyday school routine. This does not mean that I am sheltering them from the word God, or making sure they never hear it or learn that other people respect the notion. It just means that I want these things to happen within our family and/or our church.

Then if you, like so many other left wing loons are so against saying the word "god" in school, then I suppose you are all against the use of any DC or federal funding for kids to go to any charter or parochial schools that make any mention of the word god? Doesn't that violate your "values?" (I wonder where those values come from? wicca? whatever your mood hence your insane ideas you post on DCUMs that make no sense)

I strongly support the laws in DC that prohibit any kind of religious instruction or proselytizing in Charter Schools. I oppose the voucher program that uses public funds to pay tuition for students at parochial schools. I don't oppose the use of the word "God" in schools at all. For example, I support my child learning how religious ideas shape people's actions (e.g. connecting the Puritan's decision to come to America with their religious beliefs), and learning what others believe, such as through world religion classes. I do not support my child, or any other child, being taught with tax dollars that one religion is the "norm".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I strongly support the laws in DC that prohibit any kind of religious instruction or proselytizing in Charter Schools. I oppose the voucher program that uses public funds to pay tuition for students at parochial schools. I don't oppose the use of the word "God" in schools at all. For example, I support my child learning how religious ideas shape people's actions (e.g. connecting the Puritan's decision to come to America with their religious beliefs), and learning what others believe, such as through world religion classes. I do not support my child, or any other child, being taught with tax dollars that one religion is the "norm".

I agree with you. Do you think that the pledge of allegiance, because it says that our nation is a nation under God, is indirectly sending the message that a God-based religion is the norm in this country?

[Anonymous]

I'm not really religious but I don't see what the big deal is. I think it's comical that some people teach their children that a fat guy in a red suit breaks into the house once a year to leave them toys but they don't want their child uttering the word god. Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I strongly support the laws in DC that prohibit any kind of religious instruction or proselytizing in Charter Schools. I oppose the voucher program that uses public funds to pay tuition for students at parochial schools. I don't oppose the use of the word "God" in schools at all. For example, I support my child learning how religious ideas shape people's actions (e.g. connecting the Puritan's decision to come to America with their religious beliefs), and learning what others believe, such as through world religion classes. I do not support my child, or any other child, being taught with tax dollars that one religion is the "norm".

I agree with you. Do you think that the pledge of allegiance, because it says that our nation is a nation under God, is indirectly sending the message that a God-based religion is the norm in this country?

Not the quoted PP, but I think it sends the message that God blesses some nations over others, which is not something I believe about my God. I love my country and I love my God, but I do not find it necessary to have either endorse the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I strongly support the laws in DC that prohibit any kind of religious instruction or proselytizing in Charter Schools. I oppose the voucher program that uses public funds to pay tuition for students at parochial schools. I don't oppose the use of the word "God" in schools at all. For example, I support my child learning how religious ideas shape people's actions (e.g. connecting the Puritan's decision to come to America with their religious beliefs), and learning what others believe, such as through world religion classes. I do not support my child, or any other child, being taught with tax dollars that one religion is the "norm".

I agree with you. Do you think that the pledge of allegiance, because it says that our nation is a nation under God, is indirectly sending the message that a God-based religion is the norm in this country?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Do any of you know that patriotism is not biblical? It is not mentioned anywhere in the bible
And as a philosophy it excludes a huge number of people.

Patriotism to me is not something you learn because you are made to chant allegiances or listen to the anthem at sporting events. But something more natural.
What the schools are doing is they are replacing religion with patriotism. This I find creepy.

Does it help that the history books have horror stories in it?