Middles Class: $381K is the NEW $100k, Six Figures is no longer Suceessful based on analysis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agreed with the PP. Middle class folks in DC are going to look for housing further out unless they already have bought in the area many years ago. All the previous examples be it in NOVA burbs or in the district are from the perspective of the upper middle class person aspiring to be rich. What is qualified as middle class there (1m) is actually upper middle class and even I would say the upper half of it. Upper middle class buy homes 600-1.5mil. the range is large because in DC there is a large swath of upper middle class incomes.

Middle class is what in previous posts was shown as lower middle class, but again, this is the upper band of the middle class, e.g. people buying homes upwards of 600K. I'd say middle class would be around 300-600 price range for a home.

As far as incomes are concerned, anything up to $150K is middle class and above this is upper middle class. Anyone making over 500K a year is pretty much lower upper class. Upper class also has its bands and to be comfy in the upper class you do need at least over 1 mil annual income.

As far as networth is concerned, it's hard to say. Middle class is up to 250K networth, Upper middle class starts at around 250K in savings to over 1.5 mil and upper class lower band starts around 1.5 mil.

Not a science, this is just my personal opinion based purely on observations and some statistics.

Unfortunately, while this would be nice, this is far from the reality. From US Census information, Median income in the US is $51K/yr, in DC $58K/yr, in VA $62K/yr and in MD $70K/yr. the 75th percentile ranges from $80-140K depending on area. $150K is between 80th and 90th percentile for most of the country except a few isolated urban areas which are the highest COL in the nation. There is no way that 80th or 90th percentile can ever be considered middle class, even upper middle class. $500K is about the top 1.5 percent nationally and about the top 2.5 percent in the DMV region. That is solidly in the upper class and not even lower upper class.

The problem is that many people have expectations of what various classes can afford vs what various classes earn. The definition of economic classes is based on what they earn and doesn't take into account the COL in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed with the PP. Middle class folks in DC are going to look for housing further out unless they already have bought in the area many years ago. All the previous examples be it in NOVA burbs or in the district are from the perspective of the upper middle class person aspiring to be rich. What is qualified as middle class there (1m) is actually upper middle class and even I would say the upper half of it. Upper middle class buy homes 600-1.5mil. the range is large because in DC there is a large swath of upper middle class incomes.

Middle class is what in previous posts was shown as lower middle class, but again, this is the upper band of the middle class, e.g. people buying homes upwards of 600K. I'd say middle class would be around 300-600 price range for a home.

As far as incomes are concerned, anything up to $150K is middle class and above this is upper middle class. Anyone making over 500K a year is pretty much lower upper class. Upper class also has its bands and to be comfy in the upper class you do need at least over 1 mil annual income.

As far as networth is concerned, it's hard to say. Middle class is up to 250K networth, Upper middle class starts at around 250K in savings to over 1.5 mil and upper class lower band starts around 1.5 mil.

Not a science, this is just my personal opinion based purely on observations and some statistics.

Unfortunately, while this would be nice, this is far from the reality. From US Census information, Median income in the US is $51K/yr, in DC $58K/yr, in VA $62K/yr and in MD $70K/yr. the 75th percentile ranges from $80-140K depending on area. $150K is between 80th and 90th percentile for most of the country except a few isolated urban areas which are the highest COL in the nation. There is no way that 80th or 90th percentile can ever be considered middle class, even upper middle class. $500K is about the top 1.5 percent nationally and about the top 2.5 percent in the DMV region. That is solidly in the upper class and not even lower upper class.

The problem is that many people have expectations of what various classes can afford vs what various classes earn. The definition of economic classes is based on what they earn and doesn't take into account the COL in the area.

I disagree, this is definitely lower upper class if you consider upper class to be the rich and rich have many levels. think about it, we have 4 classes (lower, lower middle, middle, upper middle) shoved into the income range of just 0-250 or 0-500K. Think about the rich, the upper class that has levels of wealth ranging from under 10 mil to billions!

People with the networh of 2 mil will never have the same lifestyle or levels of comfort as people with the networth of 15 mil and then the sky is the limit, as there is a good number of households that have 100mil and more (the uber-rich) which happen to be concentrated around the centers of power such as NYC and DC. We would usually consider someone having at least 1 mil in savings to be pretty well off and many would say rich. Someone with the networth of 3 mil is definitely rich in the eyes of many, but if you consider the levels of wealthy you realize how low these households are in the hierarchy of the upper class.

The household making 500K a year would have most likely able to save 3 mil after a number of years of consistently making this income just to gain the entry into the lower level of the upper class. A household with 250K annual income will have a harder time getting there and by the time they get there, the inflation would have eaten away at that wealth should their incomes be steady and not rise much over the years. I'd say a household with 250K income is upper middle class, while a household with 500K income is lower upper class.

[Anonymous]

2010 Household and Family Income Distribution

Income Household Family
Under $25,000 8.4% 5.7%
$25,000 to $49,999 11.8% 10.9%
$50,000 to $74,999 14.4% 12.1%
$75,000 to $99,999 12.8% 11.2%
$100,000 to $149,999 20.9% 20.7%
$150,000 or More 31.7% 39.5%
Median Income $103,010 $122,189
Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2010 American Community Survey

This is directly from the Fairfax County website. You likely can take the information off the other counties websites. I want to see an even bigger breakdown once it gets past $150K, but I would assume I'd have to contact the Census people to see that.

Based on this chart, the median income for families (NOT average, there is a difference) is $122,189. That means half of family households are above and half of family households are below. The number for ALL households in lower at $103,010. Looking at the percentile breakdowns by income bracket, the average is probably slightly higher (skewed by people with insane income levels since average is a sum then divided by total households so outliers skews it), but still below $150K. Now, if you do the math, the 25th percentile starts somewhere in the $50-75K bracket. A good 40% of families in Fairfax are in the $150K+ income bracket, so I'm going to guesstimate that the 75th percentile falls somewhere around $200K, give or take.

So, by MY estimation (based on these actual numbers readily available on the internet), the middle class in Fairfax County defined as between the 25th and 75th percentile of households, is between probably $60ishK to $200K.

The previous poster was on the right track using the median numbers by state, but that still didn't answer the question of THIS area, since MD and VA have some REALLY poor areas that are grouped in with our high cost area when calculating those numbers.

$200K is on the high end of middle class in Fairfax County. And $200K is unlikely to get you approved for a home loan in the $1M+ range unless you have considerable assets going into the purchase.

My own household is making somewhere between the median and average HHI in this area. We bought a home in Chantilly for around $450K, and it was on the high side of most bankers affordability scales and we have only one car loan in addition to the home loan.

OK, who wants to do this analysis for Loudoun, PWC, Mongomery, PG and Howard for us?

[Anonymous]

no one? I'll even get you started:

http://www.loudoun.gov/documents/39/70/5160/5162/5215/5216/Loudoun%20County%202010%20Income%20Highligh_1.PDF
Here's info for Loudoun. 18% of households above $200K - which is still above that 75th percentile

[Anonymous]

middle class is not about income its the notion of having a certain size house 3000SQRFT, 2 35k cars, childcare/nanny and public schools. THat's my definition. Friends in other areas achieve this on a much lower income even with adjustment for COL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:middle class is not about income its the notion of having a certain size house 3000SQRFT, 2 35k cars, childcare/nanny and public schools. THat's my definition. Friends in other areas achieve this on a much lower income even with adjustment for COL.

your definition of middle class is so skewed, it is sad. Even based on what are considered the traditional trappings of the middle class, those are well above what most can afford. $70K in cars? I mean, really...unless you are the guy in the commercial saying "how do I afford it? I'm in debt up to my eyeballs!"

You think your friends in other areas are middle class - they are not. You are friends with those in the upper brackets and you know it.

And for the love of all that is good and holy, stop it with this 3000SQRFT nonsense. It's like you copy paste it in 15 different posts trying to make the same already debunked point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:middle class is not about income its the notion of having a certain size house 3000SQRFT, 2 35k cars, childcare/nanny and public schools. THat's my definition. Friends in other areas achieve this on a much lower income even with adjustment for COL.

That would be living large by my standards. Definitely upper middle class. Big house, two very nice cars and, I'm assuming, very good public schools (not DC east of the park, not Blair cluster in lower Montgomery, not Prince Georges, not Alexandria area of Fairfax County, etc). A nanny?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:middle class is not about income its the notion of having a certain size house 3000SQRFT, 2 35k cars, childcare/nanny and public schools. THat's my definition. Friends in other areas achieve this on a much lower income even with adjustment for COL.

your definition of middle class is so skewed, it is sad. Even based on what are considered the traditional trappings of the middle class, those are well above what most can afford. $70K in cars? I mean, really...unless you are the guy in the commercial saying "how do I afford it? I'm in debt up to my eyeballs!"

You think your friends in other areas are middle class - they are not. You are friends with those in the upper brackets and you know it.

And for the love of all that is good and holy, stop it with this 3000SQRFT nonsense. It's like you copy paste it in 15 different posts trying to make the same already debunked point.

So is what I am attempting to achieve is rich?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:middle class is not about income its the notion of having a certain size house 3000SQRFT, 2 35k cars, childcare/nanny and public schools. THat's my definition. Friends in other areas achieve this on a much lower income even with adjustment for COL.

That would be living large by my standards. Definitely upper middle class. Big house, two very nice cars and, I'm assuming, very good public schools (not DC east of the park, not Blair cluster in lower Montgomery, not Prince Georges, not Alexandria area of Fairfax County, etc). A nanny?

correct, but you would define that as upper middle class and NOT rich right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:middle class is not about income its the notion of having a certain size house 3000SQRFT, 2 35k cars, childcare/nanny and public schools. THat's my definition. Friends in other areas achieve this on a much lower income even with adjustment for COL.

Then you have a different definition from the accepted definitions. If you are going to make up your own definitions, then every time you use the term middle class you need to qualify that this is based on your skewed thoughts. By your definition, the middle class is defined to be in the 80th to 90th percentile. By your definition, 80% of the US population is below middle class. The standard definition of middle class is the middle 50% of the income earning population, e.g. about the 25th to 75th percentile, which cannot afford the majority of your definition. Additionally, the average house in the US is about 2200 SF. So again, about 80% of the the homes in America do not fit your notion of middle class. You have very upper class tastes for the middle class of America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:middle class is not about income its the notion of having a certain size house 3000SQRFT, 2 35k cars, childcare/nanny and public schools. THat's my definition. Friends in other areas achieve this on a much lower income even with adjustment for COL.

35K cars and a nanny is middle class??? Girl, bye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:middle class is not about income its the notion of having a certain size house 3000SQRFT, 2 35k cars, childcare/nanny and public schools. THat's my definition. Friends in other areas achieve this on a much lower income even with adjustment for COL.

You need to realize that middle class, as defined by sociologists, has nothing to do with size of home. A 3000 sq ft home in NYC (and close-in DC) would only be owned by the very, very wealthy, not the middle class. Sociologists define class according to variables such as income, education, and profession. Your definition of class would not be recognized by sociologists.

[Anonymous]

is anyone here a Sociology professor? There was one on another internet board I used to frequent and I loved when she would chime in on posts such as this. I only minored in Sociology, so I can't claim authority on the subject.