Kind of Felt Uncomfortable Because of My Ethnicity On a Tour

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How do you ask? How about where are you ancesters from?

If it doesn't come up in conversation, i.e. the other person doesn't comment or offer the information of where their heritage is from, you don't ask. Consider race along with politics and religion as topics that you don't ask about, unless it comes up in conversation. If they're willing to talk about it, it will usually come out in conversation. You don't get to assuage your curiosity by being rude.

I was born in the US to parents born in China who grew up in Hong Kong. I get asked frequently "where are you from." I generally say "California". If I do, the asker should roll with that. I know what you really want to know, I'm not stupid, but you should judge from my answer that I don't want to go there. I'm not offended by the initial question or your response to my answer, but if someone went on and on and on like what happened to OP, it would be irritating and uncomfortable.

Question for OP: would you have been similarly annoyed if the asker was Asian?

[Anonymous]

I think the OP was offended because he subconsciously realized that all that conversation about race actually wasn't about him. It was the faculty trying to show how PC they are. They were bragging about themselves and how culturally sensitive they were, with their asian days, origami, etc. I'm going to guess this is a very liberal school full of self-righteous people who think they are so much more wonderful than others because of their "sensitivity" to other cultures and ways.

I would find it annoying if somebody used me as an opportunity to brag about how wonderful they are. He gave them the hint quite clearly when he said "Brooklyn" that he didn't care about these things, but they couldn't resist the opportunity to brag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sam2- your posts on this board are usually very thoughtful and sensible. I find it hard to believe you would ever question a person's origin beyond the answer they gave to your first "where are you from" question on first meeting unless they led the way on that discussion. Basically, I doubt you would ever do something as socially awkward as what poor OP experienced at the school. I don't think anyone is saying that there is no point along the way of friendship where it stops being rude to ask more personal question. At least I wasn't, and I was one of the PPs saying asking is rude. I think the issue is about when to ask. At a meeting in which you are just meeting a person and really the end goal (due to circumstance or otherwise) is just acquaintanceship, the question has high potential to come across as emphasizing differences, not common ground. At the point that a meeting is in the context of a continued road to friendship or with the explicit purpose of getting to know someone better (say a date), the question is far more likely to be perceived as an attempt at better understanding and genuine interest in the whole person.

I appreciate the kind words, and that you give me the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps some of my recent posts give the impression I am some sort of cranky old fusspot who doesn't care who she offends -- that would surely be inaccurate. You are correct that I try hard not to offend people. However, I simply don't accept the premise of some PPs that until I am several steps along the way to friendship, any question about another person's background is necessarily inappropriate. Or worse yet, that I can never appropriately ask unless "invited" by the other person.

I can certainly imagine someone asking a question in a really obnoxious way that indicates he is in fact classifying the other person as an "outsider" (PP's favorite: "No, no, no ... Where are you *REALLY* from??"). But I can just as easily imagine plenty of ways that someone who is genuinely interested in getting to know the other person might ask about about his background in a respectful manner (one example: "Pardon me for asking this, but I'm immensely curious about your name, because it's unlike any I've seen before. At first I thought it might be Hmong, but that doesn't seem quite right. ... Oh, Laotian! Very neat! You can't have been born in Laos, can you? Your New York accent is almost as heavy as my own Bronx.")

What bothers me is that some PPs want to classify all such questions as irrefutably offensive, just because those PPs assume they know the other person is really thinking evil thoughts. I don't subscribe to that sort of suspicion. Like you, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, no matter which end of the question I am on. But what these PPs seem to be doing is damning others for making inappropriate assumptions about "American-ness," while at the exact same time assuming all sorts of evil motives about that other person. That strikes me as a recipe for stalemate.

Someone else posed a really perceptive hypothetical that I hope will get answered: Would the OP or other PPs take offense to a question about ancestry if the questioner is herself Asian? I'm very curious to hear whether OP and PPs would still assume evil motive in that situation.

I suppose I cannot begrudge those PPs their attitudes. Maybe they've had some terrible experiences, and never had some of the positive experiences I have. I never really expected my anonymous comments on a message board would change how they view the world. I was hoping to explore their attitudes, so I can understand why we view the world so differently.

I hope you still view me as thoughtful and sensible.

[Anonymous]

Some PPs would be scary if they were diversity board members.

[Anonymous]

When DW read these posts to me, I stopped her halfway through---when OP said he thought he was "normal" and "regular" until the awkward questions came---and I thought back to my mother's advice to me, as the only non-white child in my private school classes. She used to say, "no matter how comfortable you get with these white people, no matter how accepted you feel as just 'one of the group,' there's going to be that moment...that reality check...when they remind you of what they truly think of you." It's that reality check. I had to learn it the hard way.

It doesn't matter whether the questioner thought you were [a racial slur] or were just...interesting...because of your ethnicity. All that matters is that in some part they viewed you as "different" from them. They seem to have gone over the top to prove to you that you would be included regardless. We can kid ourselves and say that different is neutral, and that it's DC and it's diverse and progressive so people have a right to be "curious" about "where you are reallllly from." I am now "curious" what OP thought was "normal" and "regular" in the first place, and whether anyone agrees with me that therein lies the problem....

I suspect that by "normal" OP meant, "you know, just another, American person," which, I suspect, means, "you know, just like them." If no one ever used a racial slur or otherwise discriminated against another person for being "different," we would be free to be openly "curious" about the significance of our different facial features. But, that is not so, and I suspect that OP just got the reality check that white people do not view him as "normal" or "one of them," at least in some small part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the responses. Many of them are interesting. I must admit though that I'm not convinced the best way to live life is to refuse to ask people questions, for fear of offending them. Yes, it's important to be polite and considerate, and to know that some people may (wrongly) assume you're questioning their "American-ness" when you ask about their background. But that risk has to be balanced against the benefits of getting to know one another better. Waiting for the other person to volunteer everything, or to gauge when I've been "invited" to ask certain questions, is certainly another approach, but ultimately IMHO too much of an impediment.

For me, this discussion probably will cause me to be more careful in phrasing my questions, to further minimize the risk of misunderstanding. I hope that for you, this discussion might help you realize that not every question about your background is an implicit criticism.

Thanks.

Sam2

I dont think you quite get it. It is not that people think you are intentionally being rude or that you are consciously thinking to yourself "this Asian person is not truly American." It is that from the Asian person's perspective, they are being made to talk about something personal like race & ethnicity simply because of the way they appear. In a way that a white person would never face. The message received is "you are in a different category from white people." Some minorities won't let this bother them, but it bothers many.

[Anonymous]

[quote][b][i]... It doesn't matter whether the questioner thought you were [a racial slur] or were just...interesting...because of your ethnicity. All that matters is that in some part they viewed you as "different" from them. ... [/i][/b][/quote]

I agree with 22:52's comments (and unfortunately her mother's advise too.) Most people who belong to the majority race of a society do not "get" what it feels like to be viewed different than everyone else based on the color of their skin. That when you just begin to forget about your race (at work, at a party, at your child's school, etc.), your ethnicity is brought to attention; a slap whether the other person's intentions were racist, neutral or otherwise.

I don't think OP was over reacting to the "well" intentioned, but poor judgement, comments put his way. OP was "neutrally" attending an open house at a potential school for his child, not thinking about his race nor ethnicity. He was a father, like the other fathers, gathering information about a school for his child. He's not thinking he's necessarily different than any other parent there (like most white folks who probably never have it enter their consciousness that they are "different" because of the color of their face). For a moment he's just concentrating on the school, the people there, trying to be nice, trying to look put together and then out of the blue his ethnicity is brought up; again and again. It's clear the teachers and staff don't see a father of a potential student, they see an Asian father of a potential Asian student. On the surface it's all innocent and the teachers and staff feel enlighten by their comments, but they don't realize how in trying to welcome OP they made him feel very different. 22:52's mother was correct when she told her that white people at her private school may treat her like one of their own, but will alway view her as different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When DW read these posts to me, I stopped her halfway through---when OP said he thought he was "normal" and "regular" until the awkward questions came---and I thought back to my mother's advice to me, as the only non-white child in my private school classes. She used to say, "no matter how comfortable you get with these white people, no matter how accepted you feel as just 'one of the group,' there's going to be that moment...that reality check...when they remind you of what they truly think of you." It's that reality check. I had to learn it the hard way.

It doesn't matter whether the questioner thought you were [a racial slur] or were just...interesting...because of your ethnicity. All that matters is that in some part they viewed you as "different" from them. They seem to have gone over the top to prove to you that you would be included regardless. We can kid ourselves and say that different is neutral, and that it's DC and it's diverse and progressive so people have a right to be "curious" about "where you are reallllly from." I am now "curious" what OP thought was "normal" and "regular" in the first place, and whether anyone agrees with me that therein lies the problem....

I suspect that by "normal" OP meant, "you know, just another, American person," which, I suspect, means, "you know, just like them." If no one ever used a racial slur or otherwise discriminated against another person for being "different," we would be free to be openly "curious" about the significance of our different facial features. But, that is not so, and I suspect that OP just got the reality check that white people do not view him as "normal" or "one of them," at least in some small part.

Just as German born Jews found out in WWII. They were loyal to their country and people and yet were betrayed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When DW read these posts to me, I stopped her halfway through---when OP said he thought he was "normal" and "regular" until the awkward questions came---and I thought back to my mother's advice to me, as the only non-white child in my private school classes. She used to say, "no matter how comfortable you get with these white people, no matter how accepted you feel as just 'one of the group,' there's going to be that moment...that reality check...when they remind you of what they truly think of you." It's that reality check. I had to learn it the hard way.

It doesn't matter whether the questioner thought you were [a racial slur] or were just...interesting...because of your ethnicity. All that matters is that in some part they viewed you as "different" from them. They seem to have gone over the top to prove to you that you would be included regardless. We can kid ourselves and say that different is neutral, and that it's DC and it's diverse and progressive so people have a right to be "curious" about "where you are reallllly from." I am now "curious" what OP thought was "normal" and "regular" in the first place, and whether anyone agrees with me that therein lies the problem....

I suspect that by "normal" OP meant, "you know, just another, American person," which, I suspect, means, "you know, just like them." If no one ever used a racial slur or otherwise discriminated against another person for being "different," we would be free to be openly "curious" about the significance of our different facial features. But, that is not so, and I suspect that OP just got the reality check that white people do not view him as "normal" or "one of them," at least in some small part.

Wow! Not even close - your experiences do not resonate to the truth of my world today - thank god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sam2- your posts on this board are usually very thoughtful and sensible. I find it hard to believe you would ever question a person's origin beyond the answer they gave to your first "where are you from" question on first meeting unless they led the way on that discussion. Basically, I doubt you would ever do something as socially awkward as what poor OP experienced at the school. I don't think anyone is saying that there is no point along the way of friendship where it stops being rude to ask more personal question. At least I wasn't, and I was one of the PPs saying asking is rude. I think the issue is about when to ask. At a meeting in which you are just meeting a person and really the end goal (due to circumstance or otherwise) is just acquaintanceship, the question has high potential to come across as emphasizing differences, not common ground. At the point that a meeting is in the context of a continued road to friendship or with the explicit purpose of getting to know someone better (say a date), the question is far more likely to be perceived as an attempt at better understanding and genuine interest in the whole person.

Well said!

[Anonymous]

[i][quote]... the teachers and staff don't see a father of a potential student, they see an Asian father of a potential Asian student. ...[/quote][/i]

This is the point that most white people do not understand. White people are not looked at in anyway in terms of race - when people met them they are not thinking where are you from; what holidays do you celebrate that is different them me; you are different than me, etc. I bet mose white people never (have to) think about themselves in terms of race, because their white/culture race is not brought to to attention/made an issue of in anyway. On the other hand, most people of other races have experienced at one time or another, the well intentioned or otherwise, situation when comments and conversation make it clear that they are thought of as different. That they are not "really" part of the group. I think this is what OP experienced.

[Anonymous]

But does that mean OP should thereafter assume all questions and comments from anyone, even years later with different people, are meant to put him in the category of other?

If so, isn't that stereotyping of all whites?

[Anonymous]

14:00 - I don't think anyone is saying that. In this particular case OP observed no other attention paid to the ethnicity of the other parents touring. It didn't sound to me like he was making any assumptions, just stating what he observed and that it made him uncomfortable. As for the question about stereotyping all whites, I don't think OP is assuming all white people are viewing him as an other, just the ones that ask intrusive questions and prattle on about random tidbits about how accepting they are of "Asian" culture (as if there is some homogeneous Asian culture). He didn't say he walks around on other tours and sees white people and just waits for them to ask him about his background. He was caught offguard, hence the discomfort.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][i][quote]... the teachers and staff don't see a father of a potential student, they see an Asian father of a potential Asian student. ...[/quote][/i]

This is the point that most white people do not understand. White people are not looked at in anyway in terms of race - when people met them they are not thinking where are you from; what holidays do you celebrate that is different them me; you are different than me, etc. I bet mose white people never (have to) think about themselves in terms of race, because their white/culture race is not brought to to attention/made an issue of in anyway. On the other hand, most people of other races have experienced at one time or another, the well intentioned or otherwise, situation when comments and conversation make it clear that they are thought of as different. That they are not "really" part of the group. I think this is what OP experienced.[/quote]

so now you are generalizing about "white people" which quite frankly I find offensive and furthermore, I prefer to be referred to as Caucasian.

[Anonymous]

So PP do you rip up the census form when it comes because it says "white"? Just curious...