S/O Mormonism... I just don't get it...

[Anonymous]

Oh, and I'm no fan of Mormonism, but it's no less silly to believe:

1. A man walked on water.
2. A man brought another man back from the dead.
3. A man cured a blind person.
4. A man did whatever he did with the fish and the loaves.
5. And that same dude came back from the dead.

Moses did some pretty freaky stuff too.

[Anonymous]

I think it's strange that people drink the Kool-Aid for any theist religion. None is more crazy than the others...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:53, historians do agree that the historical Jesus existed. Not the "Christ" part, of course, just the fact that a radical rabbi by the names of Jesus seemed to have developed a following that was threatening to the Roman republic.

That's all.

Don't confuse the Jesus with the Christ part.

Look PP is a biblical scholar. He's pretty much outlined the "case" for historical Jesus, the evidence in support of which seems to amount to "we all believe it". Sorry, but "all four gospels mention Jesus and the Romans used to crucify people" is some pretty damned weak tea. The best thing about a liberal arts education is that you don't need to be a physicist (or a biblical scholar) to know when a small group of scholars are blowing smoke up one another's asses. Especially when their livelihood depends on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:53, historians do agree that the historical Jesus existed. Not the "Christ" part, of course, just the fact that a radical rabbi by the names of Jesus seemed to have developed a following that was threatening to the Roman republic.

That's all.

Don't confuse the Jesus with the Christ part.

Look PP is a biblical scholar. He's pretty much outlined the "case" for historical Jesus, the evidence in support of which seems to amount to "we all believe it". Sorry, but "all four gospels mention Jesus and the Romans used to crucify people" is some pretty damned weak tea. The best thing about a liberal arts education is that you don't need to be a physicist (or a biblical scholar) to know when a small group of scholars are blowing smoke up one another's asses. Especially when their livelihood depends on it.

A bit more on the historicity of "Jesus":

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_theory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:from Wiki:

Almost all historical critics agree, however, that a historical figure named Jesus taught throughout the Galilean countryside c. 30 CE, was believed by his followers to have performed supernatural acts, and was sentenced to death by the Romans possibly for insurrection.

Pretty silly to debate that, as it has nothing to do with anything.

By your standard of evidence, the Wizard of Oz is an historical figure:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_theory#Case_for_Christ_is_like_a_Case_for_the_Wizard_of_Oz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so disturbing on many levels. Whatever happened to religious tolerance? Can't imagine a thread like this bashing the Muslim religion -- so, why, then, is ok to bash Mormans. I don't agree with many of their teachings (or the teachings of many religions) but I respect their right to their beliefs (just as I do for Muslims, Jews and Christians). Thought that most educated, DCUMers would too. Very disappointed to be so wrong.

Please, Islam is bashed plenty on this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so disturbing on many levels. Whatever happened to religious tolerance? Can't imagine a thread like this bashing the Muslim religion -- so, why, then, is ok to bash Mormans. I don't agree with many of their teachings (or the teachings of many religions) but I respect their right to their beliefs (just as I do for Muslims, Jews and Christians). Thought that most educated, DCUMers would too. Very disappointed to be so wrong.

I would tolerate all religions that stay out of my life. Mormons don't do that. Nor do a lot of the wacko Christians. If they just practiced their faith, or whatever you want to call it, fine. No sweat. But let me ask you this - what happened to the separation of church and state? I don't tolerate them, because in essence, they don't tolerate me.

Last time I checked, mormons were not bombing innocent people, crashing planes into buildings, or otherwise carrying on any type of "jihad" against the west. If we can (and should) be tolerant and understanding of the Muslim faith then, certainly, we ought to be tolerant of the Mormon faith.

I think Timothy McVeigh( killed innocent people) was from some strange sect of Christianity, and that guy who flew a plane a few years ago into a building I think was a Christian.
You're right. We should be tolerant of all faiths. I don't think I've heard of Mormons bombing abortion clinics. Last I checked every major religion has violence in it's history.

[Anonymous]

I just can't get over all you Catholics bashing Mormons. My devout catholic in-laws do the same thing. "Oh it's so fucking crazy the shit the Mormons believe; hey honey don't eat anything, cause in an hour we're gonna go feast on some flesh and blood."

When I brought up my objections to Catholic beliefs (the anti-gay marriage, anti-choice, and mysogynistic church hierarchy) a few months ago I got called a bigot on here over and over and over. Why is calling Mormons weird and crazy and calling their prophet a money-grubbing pervert ok? I mean I find their beliefs impossible to accept as well, but they are NO CRAZIER in the scheme of things than other religions. They all require a huge leap of faith. And the Catholic church and many other conservative denominations are fighting gay rights and women's rights and no Catholic men are not supposed to masturbate (nor are women).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just can't get over all you Catholics bashing Mormons. My devout catholic in-laws do the same thing. "Oh it's so fucking crazy the shit the Mormons believe; hey honey don't eat anything, cause in an hour we're gonna go feast on some flesh and blood."

When I brought up my objections to Catholic beliefs (the anti-gay marriage, anti-choice, and mysogynistic church hierarchy) a few months ago I got called a bigot on here over and over and over. Why is calling Mormons weird and crazy and calling their prophet a money-grubbing pervert ok? I mean I find their beliefs impossible to accept as well, but they are NO CRAZIER in the scheme of things than other religions. They all require a huge leap of faith. And the Catholic church and many other conservative denominations are fighting gay rights and women's rights and no Catholic men are not supposed to masturbate (nor are women).

Unrepentant atheist here: I couldn't agree more. Most of the Mormons I've met seem relatively decent and, like the Jews or Bhuddists, I think that there's a fundamental decency to those religions that comes from not being the "in-group" for centuries. My guess is that had Constantine not intervened, and had Christianity survived, the institute of organized Christianity might approach that level of decency.

[Anonymous]

As a person of color Mormonism is hard for me to swallow as the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so disturbing on many levels. Whatever happened to religious tolerance? Can't imagine a thread like this bashing the Muslim religion -- so, why, then, is ok to bash Mormans. I don't agree with many of their teachings (or the teachings of many religions) but I respect their right to their beliefs (just as I do for Muslims, Jews and Christians). Thought that most educated, DCUMers would too. Very disappointed to be so wrong.

I would tolerate all religions that stay out of my life. Mormons don't do that. Nor do a lot of the wacko Christians. If they just practiced their faith, or whatever you want to call it, fine. No sweat. But let me ask you this - what happened to the separation of church and state? I don't tolerate them, because in essence, they don't tolerate me.

Last time I checked, mormons were not bombing innocent people, crashing planes into buildings, or otherwise carrying on any type of "jihad" against the west. If we can (and should) be tolerant and understanding of the Muslim faith then, certainly, we ought to be tolerant of the Mormon faith.

Well, I don't tolerate the Muslims wackos who crash planes into buildings either. That wasn't an exhaustive list. My point is - you don't bother me, I don't care what your religion is. And by "don't bother me" I don't mean all the things that come with practicing your religion. Wear what you want to wear if it's religiously significant, even come knock on my door if that's part of your religion (I won't engage in conversation with you, but I understand your right to attempt to talk to me). I mean don't become de facto lobbyists who influence my daily life. Last time I checked, Mormons were doing that (Prop 8), fundamentalist Christians were doing that. I lived in AZ for a while and the Mormons were creating and passing legislation based solely on their religious beliefs (they made no bones about that fact when they argued on the Senate or House floor), and that's what I mean by stay out of my daily life. Keep your religion private and personal. It's not mine, I don't choose to live by your religion's tenets.

[Anonymous]

I agree that this is a nasty bigoted post. The beauty of this country is that we have separation of church and state. It does not matter whether you get Mormonism as long as they are not forcing non-members to live by their principles then live and let live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that this is a nasty bigoted post. The beauty of this country is that we have separation of church and state. It does not matter whether you get Mormonism as long as they are not forcing non-members to live by their principles then live and let live.

That's what they're doing though. They don't see any separation of church and state when they fund the entire Prop 8 campaign. How is that a separation? They are incredibly politically active, as is the Catholic church, and until they recognize the boundaries just as they expect that doctrine to work in their favor, why shouldn't we treat them the same way we treat other lobbying organizations? Because that's what they are.

[Anonymous]

McVeigh was an atheist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that this is a nasty bigoted post. The beauty of this country is that we have separation of church and state. It does not matter whether you get Mormonism as long as they are not forcing non-members to live by their principles then live and let live.

That's what they're doing though. They don't see any separation of church and state when they fund the entire Prop 8 campaign. How is that a separation? They are incredibly politically active, as is the Catholic church, and until they recognize the boundaries just as they expect that doctrine to work in their favor, why shouldn't we treat them the same way we treat other lobbying organizations? Because that's what they are.

You misunderstand the concept of "separation of church and state." It means that the government cannot establish a religion and force you to participate. It does not prohibit individuals or groups, informed by their religious beliefs, from petitioning the government or otherwise mobilizing to change laws, public policy etc. That is simply the exercise of democracy. The remedy (if you do not agree with their position) is to mobilize and express your opinions. In the end, democracy will decide who wins the argument after a vigorous debate.