spin-off! What is so awful about attending school with exclusively upper middle class kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No kid should get a car at 16. I got a fancy one at 16 and within 2 months it was totalled. What a sense of entitlement I had!! I'm lucky to be alive and learned not to be so cocky.
My kid is getting a BMW at 16:

B: Bike
M: Metro
W: Walk

Translation - I was an irresponsible twit at 16, therefore all 16 year-olds are irresponsible twits. That logic is . . . flawed. Or nonexistent. Either one.

[Anonymous]

Luckily we don' t need to attend a private school to obtain an international atmosphere either.

Unfortunately, my kids need to go to private school to get get eduacated - since they are learning disabled but not learning disbaled enough in the eyes of public schools (which is a whole other thread).
Actually many kids in our school are in the same situation.

I do, unfortuanately, have to have conversations with them about being perceived as bratty rich kids simply because of the sweatshirts they wear.

As you rightly point out, parents may have to choose private school. However, it sounds like you are doing so in spite of, rather than because of, the fact that private school is, generally, not representative of society as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem with cities like NY and Washington is that a lot of us "professionals" really are the former equivalent of working class. It just happens that the working class in this city works in the factory called government or non profit or education ect. So we want to think of ourselves as middle class because that means we are at least doing as well as our parents when the reality is that we are at best treading water. All I know is that my parents had way better options for housing, education both k-12 and college than I do or will likely have even with a master's degree.

argh! you depressed me.

but thank you for the reality check.

Right. Our parents had on the average much much better options. Not.

Do you really envy them their wonderful, unsafe, lead-spewing breakdown prone cars? Or their wonderful old small screen TVs, with so many entertainment options? Or access to those wonderful dental and medical technologies on the 70ies and 80ies. And the great way they communicated with folks across the world using their magic rotary land line telephones? And not having to bother to plan holidays because air travel was so expensive. And not to mention higher pollution levels. And the opportunity to live in houses that were, on the average, about 30% smaller than they are now. I could go on ....

Except for the pollution I think was a lot simpler and easier back then. And, fewer choices is not always a bad thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the woman whose former principal made racist statements from Los Gatos, CA? Maybe we know each other. Or were their multiple Pincipals making racist statements?

Los Gatos is a wealthy enclave isn't it?

[Anonymous]

I think many of the parents who are choosing public school because they think their child will be sensitized to how other people live have a very naive view of how schools like that really work. I grew up in a good sized town that had one large public high school that everyone in town went to. There were no private schools near by. The only other option was boarding school, but it was a decent school, and very few people felt the need to send their kids elsewhere. We had students across the spectrum, from quite rich (the child of one of the highest earning professional golfers of the time) to the kids from public housing. All races, with sizable black and hispanic populations. I played sports with the black kids, and we were very friendly. I'm sure some of the people I had in my classes were poor, but I couldn't really tell you which ones.

For the most part, I hung out with the kids who were like me. I didn't visit the homes of the kids who were poor or culturally different, and I can't really tell you anything about what their lives were like outside of school. I definitely wasn't unique in this regard. I did have one very good black friend, but her parents were better educated and higher income than mine. Her mother was just a darker-skinned version of my mom. This wasn't a conscious choice, but it just was. If your child goes to a school where he or she is a distinct minority, then this "diversity" experience might work, but I still suspect that kids will always end up spending the bulk of their time with people who are really like them, even if their skin is a different color. Walking through a school hallway doesn't give you any more appreciation for how other people live than walking down a downtown street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Luckily we don' t need to attend a private school to obtain an international atmosphere either.

Unfortunately, my kids need to go to private school to get get eduacated - since they are learning disabled but not learning disbaled enough in the eyes of public schools (which is a whole other thread).
Actually many kids in our school are in the same situation.

I do, unfortuanately, have to have conversations with them about being perceived as bratty rich kids simply because of the sweatshirts they wear.

As you rightly point out, parents may have to choose private school. However, it sounds like you are doing so in spite of, rather than because of, the fact that private school is, generally, not representative of society as a whole.

I've skimmed through this thread and a few things caught my eye, including the quote above. I am not aware of any school, public, private or charter, in DC that is representative of society as a whole, so if that is your goal, I think it requires moving somewhere besides DC.

I am a proud product of NYC public schools and am sending DS to a charter for PS next year. I am going to try to make public school work for us because it worked for me and I find the idea of paying $30K to educate a 3yo offensive. But if I feel that my DS isn't getting a proper education, we'll be off to private by the time K rolls around. Are there benefits to exposure to people of different SES? Of course, but I don't think that exposure outweighs a decent education overall, something that is lacking in many DCPS and charters.

And let's be real, private/public, homogeneous/heterogeneuos, isn't going to determine if a kid is going to be hard-working or well-mannered. For instance, if a kid goes to a school where the curriculum is lacking and he is not challenged at all but he is surrounded by other kids struggling to perform at grade level, is that going to teach him the value of working hard? I don't think so. And there are obnoxious, entitled people of all SES levels. How your kid turns out is going to be up to partly his school, partly his friends, but mostly you and your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the entire thread from start to finish so I apologize if I'm repeating anything already discussed.

Sounds like some rich parents want their kids to go to school with less fortunate kids so that their kids will see how blessed they are, get some perspective, a reality dose, etc. Those are very lofty goals. I'm standing on the other side of this equation, as the parent of a less fortunate child who goes to school with the rich kids. I can't afford to dress her in name brand clothing, in fact, a lot of her clothing has holes and tears in it, as I'm stretching them out over 2-3 years. Some days, I go without eating so she can eat. Every once in a while, neither of us has any food to eat. We don't take a vacation at Easter break to the Bahamas. She won't get a car for her 16th birthday, etc., etc.

So has her presence in this school populated by the children of wealthy increased their awareness as so many of you assume it will *automatically* do? I doubt it. She gets teased, made fun of and put down. Our conclusion: rich people are mean and we'll be leaving as soon as we can. And the rich will probably breathe a sigh of relief as they won't have us around to remind them how "blessed" they are.

I have children of both sexes and girls are worse than boys. Leadership, sports, intellect, wit, character are all qualities more valued and while some stick with their prep rich kids others do not. Some parents aren't happy that friendships form outside of familial social climbing efforts -- I was told by a parent of a friend of DS's that she wanted him with certain kids and was upset that he wasn't invited to X events/movies/hang-outs. Hw was with my DS and others instead. That is in high school so it never stops. there also is social exclusion from parental volunteering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many of the parents who are choosing public school because they think their child will be sensitized to how other people live have a very naive view of how schools like that really work. I grew up in a good sized town that had one large public high school that everyone in town went to. There were no private schools near by. The only other option was boarding school, but it was a decent school, and very few people felt the need to send their kids elsewhere. We had students across the spectrum, from quite rich (the child of one of the highest earning professional golfers of the time) to the kids from public housing. All races, with sizable black and hispanic populations. I played sports with the black kids, and we were very friendly. I'm sure some of the people I had in my classes were poor, but I couldn't really tell you which ones.

For the most part, I hung out with the kids who were like me. I didn't visit the homes of the kids who were poor or culturally different, and I can't really tell you anything about what their lives were like outside of school. I definitely wasn't unique in this regard. I did have one very good black friend, but her parents were better educated and higher income than mine. Her mother was just a darker-skinned version of my mom. This wasn't a conscious choice, but it just was. If your child goes to a school where he or she is a distinct minority, then this "diversity" experience might work, but I still suspect that kids will always end up spending the bulk of their time with people who are really like them, even if their skin is a different color. Walking through a school hallway doesn't give you any more appreciation for how other people live than walking down a downtown street.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think that growing up in a smallish (only one HS), largely middle-class, town, is a comparable experience to sending your kids to public schools in DC, VA or MD. I grew up in a town of 75,000 that had two public HS. I attended the elite private school (which was also a boarding school) through HS, then got tired of the fish bowl and went to the public HS. There was much, much, more diversity in the public HS. It's true, I didn't hang out with the vo-tech kids, and the kids in my honors classes mostly looked like me.

Also, I think you are kidding yourself if you think that a private school kids with minorities who for the most part can afford $35K a year, plus a sprinkling of scholarship kids (just a few of these) is comparable to sending your kid to a public school where even most of the whites can't afford $35K a year.

I guess there are two questions, which I don't have answers to:
(1) Is a school where most kids - white and minority - can afford $35K (or $70 K for two kids) economically diverse in any meaningful way? Even if they have 5% kids on full scholarship?
(2) Do kids get experience with diversity by being in the same school with diverse kids? I think you're right that kids mostly - not always - hang out with others like themselves, especially if they are in honors or magnet programs where there's less diversity. But I'd argue that just meeting in gym, the cafeteria, the hallways, is valuable. As opposed to a total greenhouse experience in private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Luckily we don' t need to attend a private school to obtain an international atmosphere either.

Unfortunately, my kids need to go to private school to get get eduacated - since they are learning disabled but not learning disbaled enough in the eyes of public schools (which is a whole other thread).
Actually many kids in our school are in the same situation.

I do, unfortuanately, have to have conversations with them about being perceived as bratty rich kids simply because of the sweatshirts they wear.

As you rightly point out, parents may have to choose private school. However, it sounds like you are doing so in spite of, rather than because of, the fact that private school is, generally, not representative of society as a whole.

I send my kids to their school to learn and to learn that learning can be enjoyable - my kids love their school. That is the most important thing for a school to teach.

Public schools are not representative of society as a whole - they are just representative of their zip code and whatever zip code got zoned into that school.

I think public schools in our area disproportionately represent blacks and hispanics as poor. I don't this this will teach my kids anything positive.

My kids have black and hispanic friends (as well as French/Egyptian/Slovic) but they are upper middle class. They have friends whose parents are 1st generation in the US they just happen to be upper middle class. My kids think all kids are the same regardless of race. That is what I want them to learn at this point in life. My kids don't care what you are or where you are from as long as you can throw a ball or kick a ball or at least stop the other team from doing so.

I don't think it is the job of the school system to teach my kids diversity that is my job.

My kids have cousins that live on a farm and cousins that spend weekends skiing in Colorado. They have friends whose parents are widows, single mothers, single fathers, coparenting and married. They have friends that are girls and boys. They play with teenagers (and learn how to be teased) and play with 3 yr olds (and learn to be responsible).

It is my job to guide them through and discuss interactions to help them become as well rounded as possible.

Do my kids understand what it means to be poor? HELL NO! But public school does not teach that either by just being around poor kids - seeing who gets free lunches.

What I don't really understand is how kids (and they are kids) are judged because they go to these schools. Immediately people think they know who these kids are and it is not a positive image.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the entire thread from start to finish so I apologize if I'm repeating anything already discussed.

Sounds like some rich parents want their kids to go to school with less fortunate kids so that their kids will see how blessed they are, get some perspective, a reality dose, etc. Those are very lofty goals. I'm standing on the other side of this equation, as the parent of a less fortunate child who goes to school with the rich kids. I can't afford to dress her in name brand clothing, in fact, a lot of her clothing has holes and tears in it, as I'm stretching them out over 2-3 years. Some days, I go without eating so she can eat. Every once in a while, neither of us has any food to eat. We don't take a vacation at Easter break to the Bahamas. She won't get a car for her 16th birthday, etc., etc.

So has her presence in this school populated by the children of wealthy increased their awareness as so many of you assume it will *automatically* do? I doubt it. She gets teased, made fun of and put down. Our conclusion: rich people are mean and we'll be leaving as soon as we can. And the rich will probably breathe a sigh of relief as they won't have us around to remind them how "blessed" they are.

I was in the same situation as you daughter growing up - though we could afford food - no much above that - no vacations or clothes.

I got hand me downs from my brothers - I was teased constantly - I guess the Led Zeppelin shirt was not in style in prep school.

I actually think being the poorest kid is a bigger lesson than being the richest kid. I learned how badly it hurts when people are mean and I would not put anybody through that - I try to be as compationate as possible.

Also, I have learned to deal with snotty people which has helped at work and in life.

BTW - a few friends are on a hand me down path. I get clothes from one neighbor - who gets them from a cousin in NY - I pass them to a neighbor with younger children. While all the clothes don't make it all the way through the path - you won't believe how little some clothes get worn. My son just got 3 Holister shirts that were practically brand new - good new - he loves them - bad new - he loves them.

While we are not poor - getting these clothes helps a lot.

[Anonymous]

OP is right
Children of different class or religions should not mingle.

[Anonymous]

Where are these schools with "exclusively upper middle class kids?" The privates we've been associated with have lots of super-rich kids of people pulling in $500K or even $1M per year. Also, I think you may be setting the bar for "upper middle class" at about $250K, which is a pretty high bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been giving this a lot of thought, lately. Full disclosure is that my child attends a private school in NW DC and there is just one child in his class whose parents seem to be members of the working class. Everyone else has parents who are professionals and most are highly paid ones at that, relative to the rest of the United States.

I'm OK with this, so long as everything else is in order. ie, the children are kind, hard working, not jerks to each other, thoughtful. Instead of daily lessons on how to select the very best Beluga caviar or Bordeaux, the kids learn math, science and also do community service. They have arguments and work it out, sometimes with the intervention of adults if needed, and the arguments are never about the relative merits of Ibiza vs. Capri in September.

What I'm saying is, my child's actual peer experience, with that economically heterogenous crowd, is no different that his after-school/weekend experience with a crowd that is wildly diverse, economically.

I'm glad that your child's peer experience does not include selecting the best caviar or where to summer, and that the kids are nice. But this is a total straw man. Nobody wants to send their kids to a "lifestyles of the rich and famous" school.

The point is that your kid's class includes only one member of the working class, as you say. Your kid is not doing group projects with kids who have different life experiences from his own. Your kid is not going to birthday parties where the big present is the Bratz shopping mall instead of an iPad. And I hate to break it to you, but kids in private school (which we've done) do compare where everybody is going for vacation, and they are awed by the kids who take fabulous vacations.

Your child's peer experience is actually quite limited, even with the after school activities. And no, playing travel soccer after school and on weekends with a couple of talented Nicaraguan kids doesn't count. That's not real interaction, because it's completely structured and moderated by adults.

[Anonymous]

The foreign kids allow the team to feel good, win a few games and get some ribbons and tin trophies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many of the parents who are choosing public school because they think their child will be sensitized to how other people live have a very naive view of how schools like that really work. I grew up in a good sized town that had one large public high school that everyone in town went to. There were no private schools near by. The only other option was boarding school, but it was a decent school, and very few people felt the need to send their kids elsewhere. We had students across the spectrum, from quite rich (the child of one of the highest earning professional golfers of the time) to the kids from public housing. All races, with sizable black and hispanic populations. I played sports with the black kids, and we were very friendly. I'm sure some of the people I had in my classes were poor, but I couldn't really tell you which ones.

For the most part, I hung out with the kids who were like me. I didn't visit the homes of the kids who were poor or culturally different, and I can't really tell you anything about what their lives were like outside of school. I definitely wasn't unique in this regard. I did have one very good black friend, but her parents were better educated and higher income than mine. Her mother was just a darker-skinned version of my mom. This wasn't a conscious choice, but it just was. If your child goes to a school where he or she is a distinct minority, then this "diversity" experience might work, but I still suspect that kids will always end up spending the bulk of their time with people who are really like them, even if their skin is a different color. Walking through a school hallway doesn't give you any more appreciation for how other people live than walking down a downtown street.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think that growing up in a smallish (only one HS), largely middle-class, town, is a comparable experience to sending your kids to public schools in DC, VA or MD. I grew up in a town of 75,000 that had two public HS. I attended the elite private school (which was also a boarding school) through HS, then got tired of the fish bowl and went to the public HS. There was much, much, more diversity in the public HS. It's true, I didn't hang out with the vo-tech kids, and the kids in my honors classes mostly looked like me.

Also, I think you are kidding yourself if you think that a private school kids with minorities who for the most part can afford $35K a year, plus a sprinkling of scholarship kids (just a few of these) is comparable to sending your kid to a public school where even most of the whites can't afford $35K a year.

I guess there are two questions, which I don't have answers to:
(1) Is a school where most kids - white and minority - can afford $35K (or $70 K for two kids) economically diverse in any meaningful way? Even if they have 5% kids on full scholarship?
(2) Do kids get experience with diversity by being in the same school with diverse kids? I think you're right that kids mostly - not always - hang out with others like themselves, especially if they are in honors or magnet programs where there's less diversity. But I'd argue that just meeting in gym, the cafeteria, the hallways, is valuable. As opposed to a total greenhouse experience in private school.

Since you seem to have missed my point, I'll try again. I think everyone here is so used to homogeneous neighborhoods, that they don't really believe that anything else exists. My home town was "smallish," but the high school had 5,000 students, and was truly diverse. The town had a large manufacturing base, so we had everyone from the people who owned the plants (with nationally famous names), to a bunch of engineers/managers, to a large number of blue collar families, and a significant amount of public housing that wasn't really very different from what you'd find in D.C. Was this the same as going to an inner-city DC 90% FARMS school? No, and I didn't say it was. I also didn't say it was the same as going to an exclusive private school. I did say that I did go to a truly "diverse" high school (which seems to be the holy grail for some folks around here), and I don't think my experience was actually much different than it would have been had I gone to a school where everyone was exactly like me. I ended up spending my time with people who were like me, in any case. I had a few passing acquaintances who were from different backgrounds, but no real exposure to their lives. My family was middle class, and, while I knew that, in theory, there were poor people in our town, going to school with them didn't give me any real insight into their lives outside of school. I even mentioned that this might be different if you did send your child to a school in which he/she was truly in a minority (less than 10%), but I suspect that few on this board are really seriously talking about doing that.