Kumon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

maybe because the poster I was responding to said: "Because of lack of discipline some children and parents are simply incapable of setting aside 20 to 30 min a day to work math problems[b] (Kumon). This takes away from their play time."

See the word Kumon in there? But I think we agree, you can get the 20-30 minutes in many different ways.

Not meant literally. Does (e.g., Kumon) make you happier and see the overriding point or mes.sage

yeah. e.g., Kumon would have been alot better.

[Anonymous]

Discipline seems to be PP's watch word. My children will learn how to think abstractly and creatively. But takes yours to Kumon and they will learn how to fall into line.

[Anonymous]

Clearly written by an uncreative and nonabstract "adlult" thinker who firmly believes that 20 to 30 minutes of Kumon math exercises a day destroys creativity.

[Anonymous]

Let's bring back creative and abstract math ... or fuzzy math.

[Anonymous]

Discipline seems to be PP's watch word. My children will learn how to think abstractly and creatively. But takes yours to Kumon and they will learn how to fall into line.

I prefer my young child fall in line and learn mathematical rules, thoerems and proofs; lest the child's only later options are touchy feely mathematics dominated by the misuse of calculators and tutors.

[Anonymous]

Discipline seems to be PP's watch word. My children will learn how to think abstractly and creatively. But takes yours to Kumon and they will learn how to fall into line.

Good luck on teaching your child to think abstractly and creatively on your hnads and knees through play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have an interest in private school you might consider postponing for the elementary and potentially middle school years if your child is > 2 S.D. from the mean in Math and Science. You might consider shooting for a public elementary and/or middle school magnet program allowing more stretch and advancement in these domains. One can then try the private school option in high school when one may more easily successfully advocate for greater flexibility (honors and AP classes, independent study with a faculty member) with a proven body of past work and performance.

Primarily "shilling" for Feynman School here (so what else is new), and, by extension I suppose, Nysmith.

PP quoted here from 15:41 has it, in part, backward. If your young child really enjoys math (or science or reading) and develops, say, two or more years ahead of his or her age peers in the subject area due to ability, curiosity and early exposure to the material outside of school, neither the public nor most private schools in the area are likely to do a great job addressing your child's learning needs from preschool through third grade. Classes are simply too large and/or there is not enough differentiation to keep these advanced learners excited about spending six hours per day in school. Now in Montgomery County, the highly gifted centers begin at fourth grade; are very selective; and do provide significant differentiation for these children. I am not an expert on these HGCs but I generally like what I have read about them. They appear to focus on higher-order thinking skills as opposed to rote teaching-to-the-test, and I also like the fact that there are seven of them, spread out geographically around the county. But make no mistake, from preschool through third grade (at least in Montgomery County), Feynman is the school that allows a highly-advanced, self-motivated student to develop at his or her own pace. For example, Feynman has a kindergarten student this year who qualified for the Johns Hopkins CTY in math and is now working comfortably at a 5th-grade math level--in school, during the regular day. And he's not just "racing ahead" to race ahead either. He loves math and enjoys applying what he learns to topics such as geography and meteorology. Four-year-old pre-K students can sound out basic books on grade level, or they can discuss chapter books in a 2nd-grade level reading group if they're ready. Based on what I have observed at Nysmith, its programs also allow a young highly-advanced learner to develop at his or her own pace. I don't have any experience with Kumon, but isn't it somehow preferable for a child's learning needs to be met at school if possible?

In contrast, once children reach high school the lay of the land is much different. In HS, the public schools can typically better serve the very advanced, motivated student. Why? Sheer numbers.

In even the largest private schools, the size of the high school graduating class is small enough that in any given year, there may not be enough highly-advanced math and science students enrolled to cobble together a class in multivariable calculus, or to assemble a team to work directly with a local university professor on a research project in genetics. Only public magnet schools such as Montgomery Blair, Poolesville and Thomas Jefferson have the critical mass to offer this level of rigor, challenge and opportunity year-in, year-out, because they're drawing from such a large pool of top talent. These students have a record of winning Intel science fairs and gaining acceptance to schools such as Caltech and MIT in impressive numbers. For the budding student who aspires to someday excel in a STEM profession, our local HS magnet programs are among the finest in the nation. And, they're free.

I would like to learn more about how advanced-curriculum STEM opportunities compare in local middle schools, public vs. independent, and hope some knowledgeable folks will chime in. My apologies if there's already a recent thread on this.

[Anonymous]

Wow, interesting thread here. OP, has your child expressed interest in doing KUMON? Did your DH, the math wiz, do KUMON as a child? He must have because KUMON creates math geniuses. Has your child expressed the desire to grow up to be a math wiz? I doubt it. Why not let your child have his/her childhood and stop living through them? I am beginning to feel that the mothers that push their children into child beauty pagents operate in the same philosophical realm as mothers who push educational training on their young children.

As for China being a force for Americans to fear, I believe that China will grow old long before it grows rich. At the end of the day the US creates the software and IP, they just pirate it. This is what skill and drill gets you.

[Anonymous]

For example, Feynman has a kindergarten student this year who qualified for the Johns Hopkins CTY in math and is now working comfortably at a 5th-grade math level--in school, during the regular day. And he's not just "racing ahead" to race ahead either.

Very easy bar to meet (CTY in K) many in my child's HGC met this bar K and won State award fro CTY from each year after Grade 1. Nothing unique here.

[Anonymous]

Wow, interesting thread here. OP, has your child expressed interest in doing KUMON? Did your DH, the math wiz, do KUMON as a child? He must have because KUMON creates math geniuses. Has your child expressed the desire to grow up to be a math wiz? I doubt it. Why not let your child have his/her childhood and stop living through them? I am beginning to feel that the mothers that push their children into child beauty pagents operate in the same philosophical realm as mothers who push educational training on their young children.

As for China being a force for Americans to fear, I believe that China will grow old long before it grows rich. At the end of the day the US creates the software and IP, they just pirate it. This is what skill and drill gets you.

Unlike your child, at age 3 my child had not been exposed to much on this earth (much like the child's immature immune system). He did not express an interest in trying Kumon. In fact, he did not express an interest in going to the various museums around D.C. We exposed the child to Kumon as well as the museums in D.C.

My child has also not expressed a specific interest in a "childhood" or an "adulthood" for that matter.

I am glad with your unbridled creativity and abstract thinking, as an American, you have finally discovered the fountain of youth. Keep the software, intellectual property and minted new lawyers and investment bankers coming. Hail America.

[Anonymous]

Wow, interesting thread here. OP, has your child expressed interest in doing KUMON? Did your DH, the math wiz, do KUMON as a child? He must have because KUMON creates math geniuses. Has your child expressed the desire to grow up to be a math wiz? I doubt it. Why not let your child have his/her childhood and stop living through them? I am beginning to feel that the mothers that push their children into child beauty pagents operate in the same philosophical realm as mothers who push educational training on their young children.

As for China being a force for Americans to fear, I believe that China will grow old long before it grows rich. At the end of the day the US creates the software and IP, they just pirate it. This is what skill and drill gets you.

For ever young and creative previous poster,

I'm sure you'll delight us with what interests and desires your 3-year-old precious darling has expressed to you? Can you give the rest of us who expose our 'robotic' children to what we view as important an example of 'rea'l 3-year-old expressed desires and wants? It appears 20-30 minutes of "kumon-like" mathematics per day destroys childhood and creativity. I suspect 20-30 minutes of swimming drills in the pool destroys creativity for synchronized swimming talent? or 20-30 min of music drills per day is the death knell for a creative musician? Does your child have ADHD?

[Anonymous]

I'm the first poster who responded to OP's question. What a strange thread this turned out to be! Look, if OP's child is interested in doing Kumon, at the child's or mother's suggestion, who are we to care about anything else?

OP, are you aware how Kumon works? It's daily. It tests for speed and accuracy. If you start Kumon, and it turns out to be problematic, tyour child fusses about the drills, etc. that will tell you it could do more harm than good. You could really pound your child's love of math out of him/her!

But if it works, go for it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wow, interesting thread here. OP, has your child expressed interest in doing KUMON? Did your DH, the math wiz, do KUMON as a child? He must have because KUMON creates math geniuses. Has your child expressed the desire to grow up to be a math wiz? I doubt it. Why not let your child have his/her childhood and stop living through them? I am beginning to feel that the mothers that push their children into child beauty pagents operate in the same philosophical realm as mothers who push educational training on their young children.

As for China being a force for Americans to fear, I believe that China will grow old long before it grows rich. At the end of the day the US creates the software and IP, they just pirate it. This is what skill and drill gets you.

For ever young and creative previous poster,

I'm sure you'll delight us with what interests and desires your 3-year-old precious darling has expressed to you? Can you give the rest of us who expose our 'robotic' children to what we view as important an example of 'rea'l 3-year-old expressed desires and wants? It appears 20-30 minutes of "kumon-like" mathematics per day destroys childhood and creativity. I suspect 20-30 minutes of swimming drills in the pool destroys creativity for synchronized swimming talent? or 20-30 min of music drills per day is the death knell for a creative musician? Does your child have ADHD?

Not PP, but I do believe that making a 3-year-old do 20 to 30 minutes a day of swimming drills would destroy a love of swimming, and 20 to 30 minutes of music drills per day at that age would destroy a love of music (been there, done that and it was a disaster. When we stepped back and stopped forcing the music, my DC really blossomed as a musician). They may not become robotic but children at this age should not be deprived of the value of exploration and discovery and feeding their activities to them like this does have a cost. if you're doing one thing, you're not doing another. I'm so glad I did not grow up when sports were so parent-driven. I discovered sports on my own and became a very successful high school athlete, and am still an athlete, and I fear kids who are being groomed at such ages miss out on the real joy of finding a sport and engaging in it for sheer pleasure.

But I digress.

I won't touch the ADHD comment because I'm not sure I understand what you mean by it and I'm going to pretend you aren't slurring children who do have ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Kumon style math is not everyday American math, new math, calculator-based elementary school math or fuzzy math. It's old and traditional math many American students can't perform nimbly and hence are handicapped when tackling creative and abstract math or physics down the line.

Mathematics is much more than Kumon style; however, if one neither understands nor has a sense or intuition for numbers, the mathematical alphabet and computational rules; one is severely handicapped for higher mathematics and problem solving. In my opinion, these are drills and skills that are mastered before leaving elementary school. The majority of our children lack these skills before leaving elementary school. This explains our perfrmance later in in math, science, engineering, technology and computer science -- a domino effect.

Children without cold mastery of fractions, decimals, proportions, percents and basic elementary algebra by the age of 11 or 12 are slowly slinking behind the eight ball; regardless of how adept the child may think he or she is with a calculator!

If your children don't meet this simple bench mark I would be wary of deriding those children using Kumon style daily 20-30 min drills to accomplish these goals in math before leaving Grade 5. I would never deride an elementary school child who spends at least 30 minutes per day reading. On the contrary, if our children can spend 40 to 60 minutes a day reading and doing math while in elementary school, this is laudatory. Such preparation builds a solid foundation for middle and high school and doesn't deprive them of their childhood. In fact, this stratergy returns them a hazzle-free and quality childhood!

[Anonymous]

Previous poster (addendum):

I am not advocating for Kumon per se simply any approach that facilitates mastery (however a child may get this) as a component, a critical one, of education in mathematics. Kumon has worked for many individuals. Thinkwell for others. Self-study for some.